Sylphide 1837

[rsmiller]

I am hoping that I am not intruding on this forum with this question.  I am searching for specs on a ship called Sylphide leaving Havre, France and arriving in  New York in 1837.  I believe it was a French Merchant Ship.  Could anyone here lend a hand?

[GLakie]

Found a passenger manifests for 1847 here: http://www.immigrantships.net/v8/1800v8/sylphide18480722.html and for 1854 here: http://www.immigrantships.net/v8/1800v8/sylphide18540522.html  Unfortunately, no plans or even reliable pictures.

[rsmiller]

Found a passenger manifests for 1847 here: http://www.immigrantships.net/v8/1800v8/sylphide18480722.html and for 1854 here: http://www.immigrantships.net/v8/1800v8/sylphide18540522.html  Unfortunately, no plans or even reliable pictures.

Thank you for the follow up!  Yes, my ancestor was on this ship, but I cannot find any indication as to what kind of ship it was.  All I knows that it was a french merchant ship that traveled between Havre, New York, New Orleans and Vera Cruz.  It was large enough to tow a war ship when the war ships's mast broke.  But that is it.  If there are any suggestions as to how I might find specifics on the Sylphide, I would be very appreciative!

Edited April 15, 2015 by rsmiller

[GLakie]

At the bottom of the list is what looks like some kind of building sheet. The rest just looks like a passenger manifest. I think your best bet is to wait and see if one of the guys that's building a French Vessel, might be able to help direct you where to look. Maybe Mark. He's scratch-building the French Frigate "Licorne". Here: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/5339-licorne-by-mtaylor-pof-316-french-frigate-hahn-version-20/ Or there's EdT who recently built the "Naiad". Here: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/232-hms-naiad-by-edt-160-frigate-38-1797/

Both have done extensive research on French-built vessels. You could try PMing them.

 

Cheers

[mtaylor]

I have no idea on this.  Do you know the warship that it towed and when?

 

Using "Sylphide 1837 -ballet"  in Google, there's quite a few references to a barque by that name in the genealogy websites....

 

 

Lloyd's register has this:  https://books.google.com/books?id=1tsNAQAAMAAJ&pg=PT484&lpg=PT484&dq=ship+sylphide+1837&source=bl&ots=uTsvzDbeF8&sig=SQLvCPLWtxYVDE-D3W8JCcbTBOQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=SwgvVazjEem1sQTw2YHwBg&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=ship%20sylphide%201837&f=false'

 

Then there's this:  https://archive.org/details/passengerlistsof0488unit  Which appears to be a passenger list of all arriving ships to New York in that time frame.

[rsmiller]

It was the French brig of Way, Laurier.  Here is the reference  https://books.google.com/books?id=Kj1tED52ClEC&pg=RA1-PA278&lpg=RA1-PA278&dq=ship+sylphide+tow&source=bl&ots=20vMtYuscu&sig=IMVnxlCI7F7NXjYFbmP6vQs0u2I&hl=en&sa=X&ei=pRcxVduwFKm1sATSl4Aw&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=ship%20sylphide%20tow&f=false

 

Lloyd's register references another vessel named Sylphide, unfortunately.  I believe that ship is Finish.  

 

In case this rings a bell for anyone, the Captain's name was George Pasquier.  From what I can gather, the ship went from Havre -> New York in 1837.  other ports of call include Havana, and New Orleans.  There were a few ports of call that rejected the boat because of immigration issues, however it did land in Vera Cruz and unloaded European settlers.  

 

There was an international issue that occurred on this boat in Havana.  General Tacon arrested the Captain of the Sylphide and the French Consul was not happy.  Here is the story  https://books.google.com/books?id=NmfW7R5VYIkC&pg=PA301&dq=sylphide+havana+general&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0RoxVeekFaz7sASMnoDIBg&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=sylphide%20havana%20general&f=false

Edited April 17, 2015 by rsmiller

[Rob Wood]

I think I have it. Found an almost complete work on mail packets and steamers in a PDF here: http://www.rfrajola.com/swiss/S11.pdf

 

Mail Service in the 18TH Century

 

CENTRAL AMERICA AND THE CARIBBEAN

 

French Mail Packets

 

A French "Compagnie de Sieur Gautier" had a contract for service between Bordeaux and Mexico from September 1827 to early 1830, with calls at Havana. A French government subsidized mail packet line, the "Cie Generale Transatlantique" started a line to Mexico in 1862, calling at Santiago. In 1865 the lines were extended to all over the Caribbean and regularly serviced St. Thomas, Puerto Rico and Cuba until after 1900. French consular postal agencies, which were opened in Havana, Santiago, San Juan and San Thomas in 1865 closed with the effective date of the UPU in 1877.

 

Mail could be sent by either (1) French Merchant or Naval vessel from LeHavre; (2) British steamers of the Admiralty Packet and later Royal Mail Steam Packet Company or (3) through Spain (Cadiz-Tenerrife) by clipper to Havana. On rare occasions the Spanish route was selected for Swiss mail. The letter documented here [see PDF linked above] is part of an archive discovered in the early 1990's, all addressed to the Convent of Santa Teresa, Cuba. The letter was sent through the French forwarding agent MANDROTE & CIE, in LeHavre who placed the letter on board of the French Naval Sail Corvette (18 guns) SYLPHlDE. The SYLPHIDE was built by Lorient in France and launched on May 12, 1823 and lost on December 1850 off the shores of Tortugas in the Caribbean Sea. MANDROTTE & CIE sent the letter to the Cuban forwarding agent MANGUAGA ECHEVERRY & CIE- who was responsible for delivery to the convent in St.Teresa.

 

I believe Sylphide was a Diligente-class sail corvette, chosen for speed. (Makes sense for a mail packet, right?)

 

Credit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_corvette_Diligente_%281801%29

 

Isn't this fun?

 

Rob

Edited April 18, 2015 by Rob Wood

[rsmiller]

I think I have it. Found an almost complete work on mail packets and steamers in a PDF here: http://www.rfrajola.com/swiss/S11.pdf

 

 

 

Rob

 

Thanks so much for your help!  Just one more question.  All of the reference for my ancestor ship I have found, lists it as a merchant ship.  Would the naval vessel you referenced also be considered a "merchant ship" or would it be referenced only as a naval vessel.

 

The name is right the time frame is perfect, and the route is right.  I am just want to make sure that it is not a different Sylphide.   Great find and yes very fun.  

[michaelpsutton2]

I find it unlikely that a naval vessel would have carried immigrants to New York. Packets were used to carry high value low weight cargo.

Unless your ancestor was a diplomat on an official trip he would have traveled by merchant ship. So few of these common carriers were documented in detail.

 

There might be a way to sneak up on it. The whereabouts of the corvette Syphide should be obtainable from the french military archives.

You might see if she was in New York during that year. I hunted for the ship my ancestors came from Ireland on for a number of years.

Like you I found possible candidates but no proof

 

Good luck

Edited April 20, 2015 by michaelpsutton2

[rsmiller]

I stiil haven't found the ship but I thought I would share this resource for those looking for others.  I will keep all up to date should I get an answer to this mystery.

 

http://www.oocities.org/mppraetorius/main-com1.htm

[rsmiller]

Another side note the ship carried 100 passengers.  2 of which had cabins (a Lawyer and a Merchant)