Landlocked123 Posted May 8, 2015 Share #1 Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) Hi- I am basically a newbie, but I've been practicing silver soldering. The picture below shows a bunch of what I think are called clevises. The plans for the build call for bunches of them. These are made with 1/64th brass wire and just as a temporary measure I've put 1/32nd brass wire with the ends pinched down to act as pins. My question is that when it comes time to do the rigging and finally install them how do I keep the pins in place. All help is appreciated. Best, John Edited May 8, 2015 by Landlocked123 Quote Member: Connecticut Marine Model Society Nautical Research Guild Model Ship World "So we beat on, boats against the current, bourne back ceaselessly into the past" F. Scott Fitzgerald - The Great Gatsby "If at first you don’t succeed.......skydiving is probably not for you” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Lad Posted May 9, 2015 Share #2 Posted May 9, 2015 John, These are more commonly known as 'shackles'. To secure the final pins when rigging you can use any of a few methods: Silver solder the pins before rigging and splice around the pin during rigging Fit the pin during rigging and secure it with a tiny dab of glue Fit the pin during rigging and secure with a touch of soft solder (being very careful with the soldering iron Go totally crazy and purchase a jewellers tap and die set and screw the pins in John mtaylor and Canute 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landlocked123 Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share #3 Posted May 9, 2015 Hi John, Crazy sounds good, I just don't know if I can get there at this point. I'm not sure I understand what you mean about soldering the pin and splicing around them. Thanks, John Quote Member: Connecticut Marine Model Society Nautical Research Guild Model Ship World "So we beat on, boats against the current, bourne back ceaselessly into the past" F. Scott Fitzgerald - The Great Gatsby "If at first you don’t succeed.......skydiving is probably not for you” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryTodd Posted May 9, 2015 Share #4 Posted May 9, 2015 RBModel has shackles, some with threaded pins, some with clevis pins (pin with a hole for a cotter pin). I'm not sure if they go as small as you need, the smallest seems to be about 7mm tall. I've been dealing with these folks for years and have always been happy with their products. Canute 1 Quote Jerry Todd Click to go to that build log Constellation ~ RC sloop of war c.1856 in 1:36 scale Macedonian ~ RC British frigate c.1812 in 1:36 scale Pride of Baltimore ~ RC Baltimore Clipper c.1981 in 1:20 scale Gazela Primeiro ~ RC Barkentine c.1979 in 1:36 scale Naval Guns 1850s~1870s ~ 3D Modeling & Printing My Web Site My Thingiverse stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Lad Posted May 9, 2015 Share #5 Posted May 9, 2015 John, When using a shackle, the usual method of attachment is to place the items of rigging into the shackle and then put the pin in. If this is too difficult (especially at smaller scales) it is sometimes possible to make the shackle complete with the pin and then secure the items of rigging around it. This presupposes that you can properly tension the items of rigging that the shackle secures. John Landlocked123 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhearl Posted May 29, 2015 Share #6 Posted May 29, 2015 Your shackles look great - I'd be interested to know your method for making them. How did you make the two parts that the pin goes through and what kind of fixture did you devise to hold all the bits and pieces while you soldered them together? I haven't had a lot of luck with this myself. Cheers - John Quote http://modelboatyard.com Recently Completed: Chesapeake Bay Buyboat - F.D. Crockett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landlocked123 Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share #7 Posted June 2, 2015 Your shackles look great - I'd be interested to know your method for making them. How did you make the two parts that the pin goes through and what kind of fixture did you devise to hold all the bits and pieces while you soldered them together? I haven't had a lot of luck with this myself. Cheers - John Hi John, Making the shackles was actually pretty straight forward, as long as you've had some practice with silver soldering. To make the shackles I drilled two holes in plywood to hold some pins. I used some heavier guage straight pins which I think we're about 0.020" in diameter. I then took some 0.020 brass rod, annealed it and wrapped it around the pins. I trimmed the tag ends, silver soldered the loops and bent them around a mandrel to shape. I just re-read what I've been writing and I think it will make a lot more sense with some pictures. Give me a couple of days. John bhermann 1 Quote Member: Connecticut Marine Model Society Nautical Research Guild Model Ship World "So we beat on, boats against the current, bourne back ceaselessly into the past" F. Scott Fitzgerald - The Great Gatsby "If at first you don’t succeed.......skydiving is probably not for you” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ Posted June 2, 2015 Share #8 Posted June 2, 2015 John: I make shackles much the same way using a jig to form the eyes so that each shackle has the same distance between the eyes. I use brass wire instead of rod. Russ Quote T'aint a hobby if you hurry Completed projects Cross section model by Russ 1/48 scale Biloxi schooner model restoration 1/24 scale Biloxi oyster skiff 1/24 scale Biloxi schooner 1/48 scale POB Current project Biloxi lugger Captain Roy 1/48 scale POB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhearl Posted June 2, 2015 Share #9 Posted June 2, 2015 Pics would be great. I've got the concept but as they say, "A picture is worth a thousand words." The part that stumped me when I tried making them was soldering the round bits (that the pin goes through) to the U-shape part. I couldn't seem to figure out a good way to hold everything together while soldering. So pics of a jig would be really helpful. Thanks! John Quote http://modelboatyard.com Recently Completed: Chesapeake Bay Buyboat - F.D. Crockett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ Posted June 2, 2015 Share #10 Posted June 2, 2015 John: I just wrap the wire around the pins in the jig, forming the eyes at either end. Then I clip the excess wire off and solder the cut ends back onto the wire, thus creating the eyes. The eyes are not separate pieces, they are simply formed right on the end of the wire. Russ Quote T'aint a hobby if you hurry Completed projects Cross section model by Russ 1/48 scale Biloxi schooner model restoration 1/24 scale Biloxi oyster skiff 1/24 scale Biloxi schooner 1/48 scale POB Current project Biloxi lugger Captain Roy 1/48 scale POB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhearl Posted June 2, 2015 Share #11 Posted June 2, 2015 Ah - got it - thanks! Quote http://modelboatyard.com Recently Completed: Chesapeake Bay Buyboat - F.D. Crockett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modeler12 Posted June 4, 2015 Share #12 Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) Your soldering looks great and the details of your wire bending is very commendable. What scale are you working with? For me this would be a bit too big. At 1:76 the thickness of the shackle wire would equate to almost 1.4 inches and the pin double that. Shackles I have used are about one fifth or less than that. Of course, I am talking small sail boats. Edited June 4, 2015 by Modeler12 Quote Jay Current build Cross Section USS Constitution http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/10120-cross-section-forward-area-of-the-uss-constitution/ Finished USS Constitution: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/103-uss-constitution-by-modeler12/ 'A picture is worth a . . . . .' More is better . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landlocked123 Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share #13 Posted June 7, 2015 (edited) Hi All, Jay, I'm building in 1/48th scale so if I'm doing my math right the 1/32nd wire is 1.5 inches and .020" is about an inch. John, I know Russ cleared up the confusion on my explaination but I did put together a bunch of pictures (with my usual overkill). Since I had them I thought I'd post them. Maybe they'll help someone out. I think I had enough .020 wire shackles (the first post in this topic) but I could some larger ones made from 1/32nd brass wire. I thought it would be a good idea to show the tools I use: From left to right, a small butane torch, medium silver soldering paste, wire cutters, round nose pliers, and needle nose pliers on a scrap of plywood. I then drilled two pilot holes a half inch apart in the plywood tapped in a couple of pins and using a scrap of wood trimmed them to the same height. Be sure to hit the tops of the pins with a file, the cut edges are remarkably sharp. I anneal the brass (heat red hot, immerse in water) and holding the end with the needle nose pliers bend around the pins as shown below. Using the round nose pliers to form more uniform ends I trim the tag ends to form a closed loop. Be sure to file the ends of the wire flat and clean or it is very difficult to get a good solder joint. Also keep in mind that the loops must be COMPLETELY closed, silver solder will not bridge gaps. Place in tweezers, add a tiny bit of solder paste, hit with the torch and then let it drop in a bit of water to cool. Edited June 7, 2015 by Landlocked123 Quote Member: Connecticut Marine Model Society Nautical Research Guild Model Ship World "So we beat on, boats against the current, bourne back ceaselessly into the past" F. Scott Fitzgerald - The Great Gatsby "If at first you don’t succeed.......skydiving is probably not for you” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landlocked123 Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share #14 Posted June 7, 2015 (edited) I guess I was using up too much some thing or other and I had to split this into two posts. So...... In order to have the eye perpendicular to the shaft, you need to "break the neck". To do so, I hold the shaft in a pair of pliers with the eye right against the side. Then with the point of a round file inserted into the loop, I bend it into position. Once everything is straight, clean them up with a Dremel wire wheel, bend around a drill bit and your done. Please let me know if you have any questions. Best, John ps. John (Jim Lad) I took the crazy route and ordered a jewlers tap and die. Should be here any day. J. Edited June 7, 2015 by Landlocked123 JerseyCity Frankie 1 Quote Member: Connecticut Marine Model Society Nautical Research Guild Model Ship World "So we beat on, boats against the current, bourne back ceaselessly into the past" F. Scott Fitzgerald - The Great Gatsby "If at first you don’t succeed.......skydiving is probably not for you” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhearl Posted June 9, 2015 Share #15 Posted June 9, 2015 Very nice and clear explanation - thanks very much! I'll be interested to see how the tap and die set work out. I hope you'll post your results here. Cheers - John Landlocked123 1 Quote http://modelboatyard.com Recently Completed: Chesapeake Bay Buyboat - F.D. Crockett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landlocked123 Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share #16 Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) Hi All, I followed John's (Jim Ladd) advice to the crazy and picked up the mini tap and die set here: Now....can any one help me use it? Cutting threads is pretty straight forward and easy. I was even, after quite a bit of trial and error, able to tap a hole which fit the threads. My question is basically if there a way to determine the size hole to drill for the tap? I would assume it would be the inside diameter of the thread, but how do I figure that out. I'm hoping there is something simple which has to do with the corresponding holes in the die, but right now that eludes me. What I have figured out is how to create scale bolts. As soon as I get some time I'll post some pictures. Best, John Edited June 11, 2015 by Landlocked123 mtaylor and Canute 2 Quote Member: Connecticut Marine Model Society Nautical Research Guild Model Ship World "So we beat on, boats against the current, bourne back ceaselessly into the past" F. Scott Fitzgerald - The Great Gatsby "If at first you don’t succeed.......skydiving is probably not for you” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landlocked123 Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share #17 Posted June 12, 2015 Hi All, When I got home from work tonight I thought I'd spend a few minutes playing with my new toy. While I still don't know what I'm doing, I thought I would test the limits of what I could come up with. Here is the result: I managed to make a square bolt head (it needs to be a bit thinner) and the other end actually screws into the loop. It's almost too small for my build, but I enjoyed seeing how small I could go. The only negative is that my wife has said she will use this photo for proof to get the guys with the big nets to put me in the rubber room. Canute, russ, Mike40 and 1 other 4 Quote Member: Connecticut Marine Model Society Nautical Research Guild Model Ship World "So we beat on, boats against the current, bourne back ceaselessly into the past" F. Scott Fitzgerald - The Great Gatsby "If at first you don’t succeed.......skydiving is probably not for you” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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