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Brig USS Enterprise 1799 info gathering

Enterprise

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123 replies to this topic

#1
CharlieZardoz

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Greetings everyone! Been a bit quiet of late due to the fabulous summer but wanted to start a new post where those interested could gather information on the famous schooner/brig Enterprise.  While no plans of her exist, so much secondary information does that I cant help but feel an accurate model could easily be made of her.  Please feel free to add any docs/info to this thread though I'm trying to avoid the Constructo model which I've come to feel isn't a very accurate depiction of the ship.This is what I've come up with... enjoy :)

 

 

First below we have the half-hull model that exists in the Naval historical center which I'd love to get measurements of. This would be before her rebuilding and lengthening from 84.5' to 92'. I included some of the article from the Canney Sailing Warships book since it's a pretty interesting read. :)

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Edited by CharlieZardoz, 14 August 2015 - 08:08 PM.

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#2
CharlieZardoz

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Next we have the two classic illustrations which offer a very good idea of what she looked like overall. One appears to be before the rebuild and the other after when she was rigged as a brig.

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  • USSenterprise1800s11.jpg
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Edited by CharlieZardoz, 14 August 2015 - 08:08 PM.

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#3
CharlieZardoz

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I found a really excellent diagram illustrated by DonnThorson which to me looked well researched and how I would imagine she would have looked like in her heyday :)

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Edited by CharlieZardoz, 14 August 2015 - 11:26 PM.

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#4
CharlieZardoz

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Next we have the model built by Captain Percy Ashley at the Addison Gallery which looks to me like a very close approximation to the lithograph photo shown above if you take into account the placement of the gun ports etc.  Something I'd love to visit I wonder how it was built and if plans survive from the process. :) 

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  • ss0181.jpg
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#5
CharlieZardoz

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Last we have the Venice plans by Andrea Salvini which look a bit odd but may very well have accuracy in some of the hull lines. This topic has been discussed before in the forum but would love to get a copy of those as well.

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#6
popeye2sea

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I found a really excellent diagram illustrated by DonnThorson which to me looked well researched and exactly how I would imagine she would have looked like in her heyday :)

The depiction of the square sails in that lithograph are incorrect.


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Henry

 

Laissez le bon temps rouler ! :D

 

 

Current Build:  Le Soleil Royal


#7
CharlieZardoz

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How so you think? You mean the extra yard arms at the bottom that shouldn't be there? The capstan doesn't look period correct either.


Edited by CharlieZardoz, 14 August 2015 - 11:12 PM.

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#8
popeye2sea

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The yards are shown in the lowered position so the sail positions are off.  If they are trying to show a course, topsail and topgallant, then the course is being shown with it's foot spread by the main yard.  If they are trying to show the topsail, topgallant, and royals, then they are missing the course.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

Regards,


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Henry

 

Laissez le bon temps rouler ! :D

 

 

Current Build:  Le Soleil Royal


#9
CharlieZardoz

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No I understand what you mean er I think, the yard arms appear lowered with the sails in the wrong positions.  I was looking more at the hull construction and merely glanced over the rigging when I saw the pic but seeing it so flat out wrong is cringingly embarrassing, thanks for pointing that out lol. :)


Edited by CharlieZardoz, 14 August 2015 - 11:45 PM.

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#10
druxey

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That illustration is quite bizarre, the more one looks at it!


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#11
CharlieZardoz

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I emailed the guy to see what sort of plans/diagrams he used for the illustration.  With any luck he'll be open to sending me more on how he put the illustration together. He's done others including the Niagara, Constitution and Constellation though those did not seem to have the same -er weirdness's. Feel free to extrapolate druxey since pointing out obvious errors will only help in the search for accuracy.  :)


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#12
popeye2sea

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I just didn't want to see you use that as a reference.


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Henry

 

Laissez le bon temps rouler ! :D

 

 

Current Build:  Le Soleil Royal


#13
CharlieZardoz

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I have to assume he intended to show the yard arms as lowered, if you look at his version of the Niagara they look about where they should be. :P

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#14
popeye2sea

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Now that looks right to my eye.


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Henry

 

Laissez le bon temps rouler ! :D

 

 

Current Build:  Le Soleil Royal


#15
druxey

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Even so, the topsails and topgallants don't ever attach to the yards below them as in the original version of that illustration! Also would the ship really have spread a sail above the gaff at that time?


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#16
twintrow

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It is amazing how different each depiction is one from the other.The half hull looks to be a bluff bow, and the first gun opening is very near the stern, where as the 2 illustrations on  page 2 the bottom shows a sharp bow the top one shows a bluff bow....and the sternmost gun opening is different in both pictures.  The differences continue though out all the depictions.  Too many to define here.

I'd say you need to start with what can best be described by the "experts" as a true representation.  Quite a chore ahead there Charlie.

 

Good luck

Tom


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#17
JerryTodd

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It was never U.S.S. Niagara - the designation USS didn't come into common usage until the 1860's or official usage until the 1900's.


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#18
twintrow

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OK I did a little more reseach to satisfy myself about the differences in the illustrations.  I ws not aware of this but probably many of you already are, but I'll tel it anyway for my satisfaction.

There were 3 Enterprises from 1775 on to approx 1812.  Two schooners and the third a brig.

The following is from   https://shipwiki.wik....com/Enterprise

 

 

The name Enterprise has a long history in US naval service, going back to 1775, prior to the formal creation of the US Navy. The third USS Enterprise fought in the major wars like the Quasi-War with France, the First Barbary War, and the War of 1812.

" The famous little schooner Enterprise, the pet of the early American navy, was a Baltimore schooner carrying square topsails, a typical clipper built in 1799. She served in so many engagements and came through unscathed that she seemed to bear a charmed life. She captured ninetenn vessels in the West Indies and went through five engagements at sea in 1800 and when war with Tripoli was declared in 1801 she went over to the Mediterranean, and did good work." American Sailing ships: Their Plans and History by Charles G. Davis.

 

In her career of 24, the third USS Enterprise engaged in many battles and never failed to capture her antagonist. It fought in the the Quasi-war with France, the Barbary Wars, the War of 1812, and against pirates, slavers and smugglers in US waters. In these duties the brig captured, defeated or recovered 3 dozen ships. Her most famous battle was that with the British brig Boxer off the Maine coast in 1813. On 9 July 1823 she ran aground and was lost. For the War of 1812, you may further read the page for The Journal of The War of 1812.

For detailed information about Voyages of Enterprise, click http://sandcastlevi....rise/intro.html

For a ship directory listing voyages of Enterprise, please visit http://sandcastlevi....rise/voyappa.ht

 

Tom


Edited by twintrow, 15 August 2015 - 07:45 PM.

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#19
CharlieZardoz

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Well twin these illustrations and models are all for the 1799 vessel, which was altered several times in its service history.  Appreciate the sandcastle articles that's really nice info there!  And good observation about the USS there Jerry I would almost take those drawings down having caused so much controversy on here however they do serve for some amusement at least if nothing else. ;) 


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#20
uss frolick

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Strange model by Captain Ashley. The gun-port spacing looks too close together, and the space between the aft-most port and the tafferail looks too long. The profile of the hull reminds me of the Model Shipways Kit of the Brigantine Newsboy of 1854.

 

Great post Charlie.


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