What is a fitting end for a war ship after her Man-O-War days are over?

[Senior ole salt]

1.Sunk in battle                                                              USS Lexington, USS Yorktown

 

2. Sunk by friendly fire as in target practice                   USS Eaton

 

3. Scrapped                                                                   USS Coral Sea, USS Roosevelt

 

4. Forgotten and rusted away

 

5. Converted to a museum and or kept in commission      USS Constitution  USS Midway USS Intrepid  HMS Victory.

 

Of course their are many  other's  so you can add to the list.   So fire away.

 

SOS

[mtaylor]

Converted to a museum or kept in commission  - USS Constellation and USS Olympia.

 

There used to be minesweeper in St. Louis that was washed away by the floods (I think it was '93) and sunk.

[Altduck]

USS Hornet -- Space shot retrieval and museum

[jud]

Harnett County LST 821, on a reef in the South China Sea, used as a Philippine military outpost in a increasingly disputed area. Advar is aboard her, 67 or 68 in one of the RVN delta rivers. Other ships I rode, USS Ammen DD 527 and USS Helena CA 75 ended up as scrap, Don't know what happened to the other 2 LSTs or the ships I was aboard for training.

jud

[davyboy]

HMS Belfast. WW2 Light Cruiser 12x6 inch guns. Now a museum ship moored in the river Thames near Tower Bridge London.

 

Dave

Edited May 18, 2016 by davyboy

[Altduck]

and then there's:

 

Russian Cruiser Aurora, served the Czar through WWI and then fired the shot to signal the start of the Revolution;

 

Continued in various events and eventually docked at St Petersburg as a museum.

 

Richard

[John Allen]

Battleship Alabama BB60 Converted to a museum Mobile Alabama.

 

In the early 70s looong time ago we (Alabama Marine Police) had an office on the second deck in the old officer quarters. We had to rotate on call 48 hrs at a time. I roamed all thru the old girl from the bridge down to the engine room. When they got it ready for the public we were evicted.

 

Thanks for the memory

 

John Allen retired Alabama Marine Police Stationed Dauphin Island, Alabama

[John Allen]

I was remiss in not mentioning the submarine USS DRUM, which is beside the Alabama and visitors can walk thru it. This is quite a large memorial park worth visiting if you are in the Mobile area. www.ussalabama.com/

[EJ_L]

I wish more of them would have ended up preserved some way throughout history so they could have been made into a museum or if lucky enough to be preserved well enough after sinking, raised and restored like they did with the Vasa.

 

More modern practice lately has been to scrap them down to the hull and sink them as coral reefs. I feel this is a fitting end for a ship that has done it's duty. To me it's symbolic of how we bury our dead. It is with respect and hope that even though they are no longer on the surface in life that they can rest in peace and still be a source of aid for the future.

[jud]

The answer will be different between those who served aboard, those who restored, visitor with interest or family member that had been aboard then the general public. The general public, having no personnel or family member with interest in the vessel will usually choose cheap and seldom will visit a museum ship unless they were killing time and she was handy. The ships I rode were WW2 vessels, all had been mothballed and returned to service when the need was there. Today's Navy should not sell any ship for scrap, if not needed, they should go through a yard period to bring them up to service standards and then mothballed with all the equipment, spare parts etc. aboard that are required to operate the ship, keep them whole and together for at least another 20 years, then consider turning her over to a museum, upgrading if the hull is sound, if not, strip her of equipment to be made available to the fleet, then make a reef out of the hull.

jud

[twintrow]

Daveyboy:   a point of reference The London Bridge now resides in Lake Havasu City, AZ USA.

 

 

Tom

[texxn5]

My old ship the USS John F Kennedy CVA-67 is to be a museum in Newport, RI within the next year or so. I was stationed for her 2nd cruise in 69 to the Med. At the time, the newest and the biggest. She was retired in 2007 as the last oil burner. She was supposed to be nuke, but McNamara cut the funds so she was converted to an oil burner. She never was right, always had a list to stbd and had to keep enough fuel on board for ballast to keep her level. Museum is a better option than our sister ship the USS America CVA-66 she was sunk and is now a reef off of Florida.

 

John (EM2)

[davyboy]

Daveyboy:   a point of reference The London Bridge now resides in Lake Havasu City, AZ USA.

 

 

Tom

Tom,put my duff gen down to a senior moment I've edited my post.

 

Dave

[pompey2]

Submarine HMS Alliance, museum in Gosport (Portsmouth) UK

HMS Trincomalee, Teak Frigate now museum in Harlepool UK

Nick

 

Further to the London Bridge conversation - One of the London Bridges is in AZ

[allanyed]

SOS

I have visited Pearl harbor and the Missouri, several subs such as the Ling, the USS New Jersey, USS Texas, the Intrepid and a few others.   While I enjoyed the visits and can see a museum ship or two, they are a huge  waste of money IMHO.  I agree that truly historic vessels would be great to keep and see such as the Wasa, Victory, USS Missouri and a few others but how many is too many?

 

Jud, As far as mothballing and being available to re-activate, they are out of date well before they are set aside and could never be brought up to modern design and armament standards at a reasonable cost.  The new vessels are stealthy so the old designs would never be able to meet that criteria.  Better to re-use their steel and build from scratch with the latest technology than try to make a silk purse from a sow's ear.

 

I served and am very happy to have done so, but it was the people, not the steel that I remember most of all.   I would enjoy having a few beers with old shipmates far more than taking a tour on those ships

 

Just one man's opinion.

 

Allan   

[EJ_L]

Ship museums are definitely more for people who have never been on a ship then us former sailors. That being said I'm glad there are some around and although I do not feel every ship needs to be preserved, I am glad some are. In the present we rarely think about what the future might want. The Constitution and Victory during their prime and even towards the end of their active service were probably not planned on becoming museums. It is largely due to luck that they survived long enough for someone to say that it would be a good idea to preserve them. Thankfully they did save them and many more for those of us interested in history.

 

This is the same way we think now with modern ships. We don't need or want a museum as we can see them now. It is thinking 50-100 years from now that decides on if they should be a museum. Will future generations want to know what our battleships, carriers and subs look like? When we are exploring space will those people care how we explored the oceans? For the sake of our society as a whole I hope so but today if I'm given the choice between setting money aside to preserve a carrier or funding education for example, education will win and I will hope and pray that private money will become available for the museum.

 

As for mothballing a ship, we have that. I have seen the Navy's mothball fleet. if we had to rely on that fleet to fight with we will be done. The time and money it would take to get them up and going and compatible with modern technology is unimaginable. I guess if we needed ships that didn't need to rely on modern technology we would be in good shape. Otherwise...

 

I say pick a ship that has meaning be it the first of a revolutionary type or one that was instrumental in history and preserve those as a museum. Otherwise I almost hate to say it but either scrap them or sink them for reefs. Things should be preserved for history and education. I'm a firm believer but we can only save so much. Be smart and choose well. Put money where it it does the most good and will benefit the future generations the most. 

[lehmann]

Maybe I'm just romantic, but what ever happened to prison hulks?  

[lambsbk]

USS (CV10) Yorktown

USS Clamagore attack sub

USS Laffey destroyer

 

...berthed as museums in Charleston at Patriots Point.

Edited May 27, 2016 by lambsbk

[popeye2sea]

Just as an aside.  Every major conflict we (the U.S,) have been in we have reactivated ships from the mothball fleet.  Up to and including the last gulf war.  It has always been less expensive than building new ships.

 

Look at the four Iowa class battleships.  They were modernized to bring them up to current standards three times over their long careers.  Currently they are museum ships, but under conditions and terms by which they can still be reactivated if needed.

 

Regards,

[EJ_L]

I stand corrected on the morhball ships. I knew that the Navy did return some ships with upgrades to service and that many museum ships are maintained in a "battle readiness" state and yes it is far less expensive than new ship construction. I was misinformed to the extent these upgrades were taken to. I was under te impression that they were upgraded with modern electronics and related systems as well as structural but, and I may be wrong again, are not the upgrades limited to what the ship can support? I would think that the ships structure would limit what can be done in terms of modernizing them.

This is not an arguement but curiosity and looking for the correct information.

[mtaylor]

Just as an aside.  Every major conflict we (the U.S,) have been in we have reactivated ships from the mothball fleet.  Up to and including the last gulf war.  It has always been less expensive than building new ships.

 

Look at the four Iowa class battleships.  They were modernized to bring them up to current standards three times over their long careers.  Currently they are museum ships, but under conditions and terms by which they can still be reactivated if needed.

 

Regards,

 

I remember the Marine General during the 1st Gulf War, looking at the "invasion fleet' for his troops landing in Kuwait.  All around were missile cruisers and hi-tech destroyers and him asking: "Where the hell is my gun line?"  They softened the beachhead with aircraft.  Not an ideal situation for the grunts making the landings.  If they had been heavily opposed, the Marines would have taken some serious losses.

 

I stand corrected on the morhball ships. I knew that the Navy did return some ships with upgrades to service and that many museum ships are maintained in a "battle readiness" state and yes it is far less expensive than new ship construction. I was misinformed to the extent these upgrades were taken to. I was under te impression that they were upgraded with modern electronics and related systems as well as structural but, and I may be wrong again, are not the upgrades limited to what the ship can support? I would think that the ships structure would limit what can be done in terms of modernizing them.

This is not an arguement but curiosity and looking for the correct information.

 

It's a trade-off, EJ.  For the battleships, they added cruise missile capability by not carrying all the shells and powder they formerly could for the main guns.  Removing the old anti-aircraft guns en masse and added the Phalanx systems.  Radar upgrades.  It will be interesting on what ships get upgraded when the Navy starts deploying the railgun.  So far, it appears that only gas turbine powered ships will get it.

[Talos]

I remember the Marine General during the 1st Gulf War, looking at the "invasion fleet' for his troops landing in Kuwait.  All around were missile cruisers and hi-tech destroyers and him asking: "Where the hell is my gun line?"  They softened the beachhead with aircraft.  Not an ideal situation for the grunts making the landings.  If they had been heavily opposed, the Marines would have taken some serious losses.

 

 

It's a trade-off, EJ.  For the battleships, they added cruise missile capability by not carrying all the shells and powder they formerly could for the main guns.  Removing the old anti-aircraft guns en masse and added the Phalanx systems.  Radar upgrades.  It will be interesting on what ships get upgraded when the Navy starts deploying the railgun.  So far, it appears that only gas turbine powered ships will get it.

 

Probably a good thing that all major US Navy surface combatant classes, the Burke destroyers and Ticonderoga cruisers, have gas turbines then.

[texxn5]

I'm an "Old Salt", I guess.  As much as I hated what I was doing, where I was at and where I lived, that old gray ship (USS JF Kennedy CVA 67) aircraft carrier and the people, and experience, upon reflection, were the best days of my life.  Therefore, I couldn't be happier to see her becoming a museum, and like others have said, it's not our generation or the current generation to understand, but future generation a hundred years or more to see what Navy preceded them.   As someone recently said about ships,  "that back "then" there were wooden ships and Iron Men, now we've become iron ships with wooden men soon to be iron ships with no men".  May our history survive for future generations to learn from.  To me that is only by preservation of our heritage....except model ships.

John

[CDR_Ret]

Re: mothballing--naval technology is advancing so fast that some warships are becoming obsolete before their planned service lives. The 1st flight 688 subs are a good example. They were the quietest things in the ocean when they were built, but long before their 30-year service life, their base sound levels were already well above that necessary to remain tactically viable. So for ships that depend on advanced technology, mothballing isn't really an option, especially if they're nuclear powered.

 

Carriers are so big that they can be upgraded repeatedly almost indefinitely until it becomes too expensive to replace legacy parts.

 

Then there are the Ticos, that Congress wanted to scrap as a sequestration cost-cutting measure. Fortunately the Navy brass want to keep them and upgrade this very capable and good-looking class of ships. Nothing like the Zumwalt abomination or the LCS jokes for warships.

 

IMHO.

 

Terry

Edited July 28, 2016 by CDR_Ret

[popeye2sea]

I agree. Not all ships should be mothballed or are capable of being upgraded.  However, there are significant numbers of non-combatant and fleet support ships that are almost routinely mothballed for future use.  Their capabilities never go out of date.  Most of the ships in our mothball fleets are in this category.

 

Regards,

[S.Coleman]

HMS Ovens - Walk through museum, Fremantle, Australia.

HMS Onslow -Walk through museum, Sydney, Australia.

[CDR_Ret]

Nuclear warships present a special problem as museums or for disposal. The reactor compartments retain radioactively contaminated systems, even after the nuclear fuel is removed, so containing the residual radioactivity and shielding the visitors from radiation is challenging. Sinking the ships presents the problem of releasing radioactivity to the environment, not to mention granting unrestricted access to classified hull construction technology to divers.

 

To my knowledge, the only complete nuclear warship accessible by the public is the USS Nautilus (SSN 571) located at its museum in New London, Connecticut, USA. It required special radiation shields to be added outboard of the reactor compartment, and the engineering spaces are not accessible. All other decommissioned US nuclear submarines have been sent through the "ship and submarine recycling program," where the first step after removing usable equipment is to cut out the reactor compartment (and the missile compartment in the case of boomers) and weld the two halves together for towing to the recycling yard if applicable. The reactor compartments are sealed and transported to the storage facility at Hanford, WA.

 

Fortunately, civic and military organizations have seen fit to preserve the sails of many important subs. Preserving the sails in lieu of the entire ship is a good compromise between economy and memorialization.:

 

USS Nautilus (SSN 571)—Entire ship, New London, CT

USS Triton (SSRN 586)—Sail, Richland, WA

USS George Washington (SSBN 598)—Sail, New London, CT

USS Woodrow Wilson (SSBN 624)—Bangor, WA

USS Nathanael Greene (SSBN 636)—Sail, Port Canaveral, FL

USS Sturgeon (SSN 637)—Sail, Keyport, WA

USS Tautog (SSN-639)—Sail, Galveston, TX

USS George Bancroft (SSBN-643)—Sail, Kings Bay, GA

USS Lewis and Clark (SSBN 644)—Sail & rudder, Mount Pleasant, SC

USS Grayling (SSN 646)—Sail, Portsmouth Naval Shipyard, Kittery, ME

USS Mariano G. Vallejo (SSBN 658)—Sail, Mare Island, Vallejo, CA

USS Hawkbill (SSN 666)–Sail, Arco, ID

USS Parche (SSN 683)—Sail, Bremerton, WA

USS Boston (SSN-703)—Sail & rudder, Buffalo, NY

(This list may not be up to date)

 

I am hoping that the last remaining Los Angeles-class boat, USS Bremerton (SSN 698), which I commissioned back in 1981, will be similarly preserved. She is currently homeported in Pearl Harbor, HI.

 

As a matter of interest, the only US nuclear merchant, the NS Savannah, has been designated a National Historic Landmark, and is currently moored at Baltimore, MD, awaiting funding to permanently provide a memorial park for her.

Edited April 14, 2023 by CDR_Ret

[rpeteru]

In my case my old ship HMAS Diamantina is now preserved as a maritime museum vessel in Brisbane Australia. Her greatest claim to fame, was to accept the Japanese surrender on Nauru Island. She was also at the time of her decommissioning the last Australian built ship during WW II. She no longer has the shape as I remember her. Having been retrofitted to be depicted as she was during her war time service. I do not know if HMAS Castlemaine also a museum ship is older. moot point. Tina was longer in commission.

 

Correction to this post as I have not mentioned class or designation. Were as follows Class = River class. designation = Frigate.

Sometimes the record just has to be set straight.

Edited November 2, 2016 by rpeteru

[AndrewNaylor]

I believe the British recycled 70% of the WW1 German ships sank at Scarpa Flow, using German tugs (the strongest in the world at the time) to tow the up turned hulls to the scrap yard in Scotland The use of the tugs really P----d of a certain Mr A Hitler who stopped the use, Any how Britain got a lot of armored steel for WW2 The ships and armor plate still on the bottom is very rare as it has never been irradiated by nuclear fall out, and the book I read about the sinking and salvage said it was very valuable for that reason. 

Andy