Fastening Blocks to Eyebolts

[GuntherMT]

re: Strop - My understanding is that it's the bit that goes around the block only.

 

Brian - it all helps! Thanks. The third one in particular. I have one like that. Is the long rope a continuation of one side of the strop or a separate piece? Looks like you stropped the block, seized that, cut the rope on one side and ran the other side down to the eyebolt?

 

Yes, that is just a single piece of rope.  I wrapped the 'strop' around the block and captured the tan line that attaches to the top of the block, and then seized the rope together below the bottom of the block and only trimmed one piece off, then used the same rope to go down to the eyebolt where it was seized.  This was all done off the ship, and then the eye-bolt was glued in place.

 

My thought on making this with separate strop vs. the line going down to the eye-bolt was that it would be introducing more difficulty, and would likely look worse after it was completed when looking at it without super 'zoom' action from the camera.

 

I think that the seizing looks good on the model, and adds something to the overall effect, but having the lower line 'captured' by the strop like the top line is would require making a proper strop with an eye on each end of the block which I did not think I was up to at this scale (since it would require a splice around the block, as there would be no 'end'), and on only my 2nd model.  Not sure the end result would look any better either, but it might, who knows!

[GuntherMT]

Mike - Do a Google image search for "stropping a block".  You'll get a good idea from that, although most good images are more modern, but the technique itself is probably still pretty accurate.

[popeye2sea]

Okay, found some pics.

 

 

Not exactly the same thing but it will give you an idea.  This is a mainstay as it passes next to the foremast.  It is set up with hearts.  Notice the jumper that functions to hold the stay off the mast to prevent chafing.  It is a pendant with and eyesplice at the top and a thimble spliced in at the bottom.  The eye is seized to the stay and the thimble is lashed to the eyebolt in the deck.

 

 

Next up are some seizings.  Figure 70 - 73 show how a round seizing is clapped on.

Figure 74 and 75 show how to do a throat and a round seizing.  This would be one way to fasten the end of a line to a ring bolt or eye bolt.  (This is also the way the dead eyes are turned in on the ends of shrouds)

 

 

 

Last up is some ways that blocks are stropped.  Fig. 127 is the strop.  Fig. 128 shows the seizing clapped on at the throat to form the eye.  Fig, 129 and 130 show a block with a thimble and hook seized in.

 

Fig. 131 is a tail block

Fig. 132 is a block with a long and short leg.  The short leg has an eye spliced in.

Fig. 133 is a clew line block with two short legs with an eye spliced in each leg

Fig. 134 is a three-fold block with a double strop.

 

Hope this helps a little.

 

Regards,

 

 

Edited August 11, 2016 by popeye2sea

[jbshan]

And, Mike, page 9 and 15 are from Lever. 

[mikiek]

Yeah - I was just looking at those today.

 

Well said Henry, worth the price of admission right there. Now if I can find enough memory to put all that in.

 

This afternoon, I did run into what I suppose is typical for smaller scales. I had .008" rope going thru an eyebolt. How in the world do you seize .008" rope? Do you even bother? If yes, then with what? Even sewing thread is almost that size. If no, then just tie a knot?

[popeye2sea]

On rope that small I use  6/0 monofiliment thread.  Basically it's fly tying thread.

 

Regards,

[mikiek]

OK - I will order. How does sizing work with monofilament? Is 3/0 thicker or thinner than 6/0?

[allanyed]

Brian

 

The photos are super, shows very neat work.  Questions ---> shouldn't the stropping be seized the entire length as shown in figures127 and 128  in the drawings Popeye posted and is tarring the stropping standard?  I always thought the stropping was left untarred but now, I am not so sure.

 

Thanks again for the photos!

 

Allan 

[mikiek]

Allan - I have to wonder whether it becomes a question of scale. Trying to make the strop look like 127 with .008 rope would be a challenge - at least for my fat fingers.

 

Then again, maybe putting the .008 rope in my serving machine and wrapping it there might work. Then cutting that to length.

 

A rookie's perspective....

[GuntherMT]

Brian

 

The photos are super, shows very neat work.  Questions ---> shouldn't the stropping be seized the entire length as shown in figures127 and 128  in the drawings Popeye posted and is tarring the stropping standard?  I always thought the stropping was left untarred but now, I am not so sure.

 

Thanks again for the photos!

 

Allan 

 

Allan,

 

I have no idea when the entire strop should be served vs. not.  Do a Google image search on "stropping a block" and you'll find a number of beautiful images of blocks, some have the strop served, some do not.

 

Personally, not going to happen at the scale I am working at, but it's something that I might consider on larger blocks at say 1/24 scale.  Even if I could manage it and it looked good at 1/48 or 1/64 scale, the resulting line would be very difficult to fit tightly against a 5/32" block which is what was mostly used in those photo's.  

 

Edit: You might find this link interesting - http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?126229-Wooden-rope-stropped-blocks

Edited August 11, 2016 by GuntherMT

[allanyed]

Nice blocks on the Wooden Boat Builder forum!   Still don't know that these modern blocks are representative of contemporary blocks but I agree, seizing stropping for scaled blocks that small may be an adventure that is too much to ask to take.  I just looked at some photos that I took of models at Preble Hall and there is no seizing on the strops that I could zoom in on.

 

Allan

[GuntherMT]

No idea how 'authentic' they are, but the blocks on the HMS Surprise in San Diego are rope-stropped and the stropping is not served.

[popeye2sea]

I guess it depends on how you are making the strops.  I would not bother serving them if I was just making them from standard rigging line.

 

The way I make mine is a bit different and time consuming and definitely not for everyone.  It does result in a completely served strop.  I will attempt a description, but I am not sure if it will come across without pictures.

 

I make the strops on a serving machine using sewing thread.  The serving machine is set up a hook on each end.  You have to calculate the distance between the hooks for each type of block and strop that will be made.  Basically the circumference of the block plus the circumference of the eye plus twice the length of the tails (if necessary).

 

This next part makes a strop with an eye at each end:

Make a loop at one end of the thread and put it on one of the serving machine hooks.  Then pass several turns around both hooks until you build up the required diameter of the strop.  Pass a half hitch around the turns near one hook.  The part of the strop from the half hitch around the hook forms one eye.  Next, serve the strop back towards the opposite hook.  Stop when the second eye is the same size as the first and secure the service with another hitch.  You can now take the strop off the hooks.  In order to complete the strop you make it into a continuous loop by lashing the two eyes together.  Finally serve over the the two eyes and the lashing and you will have a completely served strop ready to be seized around a block.

 

Variations:

 

If you need a block with eyes on the tails, omit the part where you lash the eyes together and instead serve around the eyes separately.

If you need a tail block or a block with one eye and a tail, serve over one of the eyes closed.

If you need a becketed block, put the becket on the strop before you lash the eyes together.  Position the becket at the bottom of the block when you seize the strop around the block.  It will be held firmly in place there when the strop is tight

 

Doing the strops this way you can make stropped blocks for any location and usage on the model in the same manner that was done for the actual ship.

 

It bears saying again,  this method is very fiddly and time consuming and with hundreds of blocks on some ships may not be worth your effort.  But the results are great.

 

Regards,

Edited August 12, 2016 by popeye2sea

[GuntherMT]

I'd certainly like to see the result of that method Henry!

 

Edit: Actually, I just found the set of pictures where you show that method on your build log.  Interesting, although at that small of a size I'm not sure I would do it myself.  I think it would make more sense visually to do that on blocks that were quite a bit larger on a larger scale ship.

 

Sort of comes back to the 'what do you think looks good' part of our hobby!

Edited August 12, 2016 by GuntherMT

[mikiek]

Thank you Henry. Well said, particularly the variations. As you and Brian said, not sure I will serve all the strops on my build this way but I will experiment just to see what is possible.

 

This has turned out to be a helpful thread!

[jdbondy]

Mikiek, regarding your question on the size of fly tying line, 3/0 is larger than 6/0, which is larger than 8/0, and so on. I am currently using a lot of fly tying line ranging from 6/0 (which is about 0.003") to the smallest I can find which is 16/0 (about 0.001", so like a human hair). Despite the small size, these synthetic lines are surprisingly strong. I am really enjoying seizing blocks to eyebolts using these synthetic fly tying threads. There is no fuzz; everything looks very neat. In a separate post, I have brought up the topic of Flexament cement, which is sold by fly tying kinds of places for bonding synthetic thread to natural fibers. It is working well for me so far.

 

Look for Uni-Thread or Veevus. Veevus makes the really small stuff.

[mikiek]

Thanks jdbondy - I tried some 3/0 for seizing. Perhaps I bought the wrong type of line as it very easily unraveled and proved difficult to use. Maybe there's a trick to it that I don't know.

[Richard Griffith]

Good advice above.  

Since we are creating illusions, we decide what looks best and what suits our abilities.

 

In full size practice, a block would not be stropped to an eye bolt but would have an eye spliced in (with a thimble) or a hook.  It would then be lashed to the eye bolt or the hook would be moused so as not to fall out of the eye bolt (refer to page 161 of Lees book).   Broudriot has excellent graphics; for example between pages 172 and 173 of his 74 Gun Gun Ship, V2 is an illustration of a gun tackle.  The training tackles have a hook and the breechings have a iron ring which engages the eye bolt. 

 

However, there are always exceptions, n'est-ce pas.  Some stays in Broudriot's book The 74 Gun Ship are shown spliced to the eye bolt-see pages 127 V3 and page 181.

 

Keep building and above all, have fun.                       Duff

[jdbondy]

So now I have to go back and mouse all my hooks!!

[jdbondy]

Mikiek, I know exactly what you mean. I have some Unithread 3/0 and I cannot use it because it unravels into many tiny threads. But it's not much smaller than any of the natural fiber threads I am using, so I don't have much of a use for it anyway. If you got some Unithread 6/0, you shouldn't have the same problem. It does not fall apart into smaller threads. You will find that the 6/0 is not round; it is more flat in cross section. Seizings made with it will be slightly irregular in surface contour because of this, but you would have to be looking close. What I like even better is the Veevus 16/0, an incredibly tiny thread that is still slightly flat in cross section but so small that it doesn't matter. I am building in 3/16" scale, and the seizings made with the Veevus are incredibly fine and smooth. I am still working out when to make a seizing with 6/0 versus when to use the 16/0. 

[mikiek]

Thanks jdbondy - I will order some of both.  Good timing too, as I will begin rigging Niagara in the next week or two.