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Does it have to be wood?


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#21
EJ_L

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Thanks for looking into it and going through all the tests. It may indeed find it's way into a few parts, especially on a larger scale model. Good to know what it's limits are and what we can expect if we choose to work with it.


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#22
Modeler12

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Well, I have given up on Corian for modeling (for now).

 

I tried to turn another piece i my lathe to make a corronade and it also broke. It is just too brittle.

It worked well with my mill, cuts nice and clean, takes paint, but is so-so with adhesives and it is too fussy when any force is applied to the side (like in turning a lathe project).

 

But, like the old saying goes, 'nothing ventured, nothing gained' (or something like that).


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Jay

 

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Finished USS Constitution:  http://modelshipworl...n-by-modeler12/

 

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#23
Roger Pellett

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Installation contractors are able to cement corean panels together so well that you cannot find the seam. I saw them do it when they installed our bathroom countertops. Unfortunately, I don' know what they used.

As far as suitability for "Wooden ship models". That bridge has already been crossed. MDF and plywood are hardly traditional materials and what about miniraturists who use brass rod for spars and wire for running rigging? Assuming that the stuff can be worked and glued I don't see that it is any different from the casting resins.

Roger Pellett
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#24
mtaylor

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Thanks for sharing this test, Jay.  Interesting results... hmm.... black for cannons...  


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Mark

"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me


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#25
donrobinson

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Really appreciated, Thanks Jay


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#26
src

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Jay,

I am a little late to this but figured I would throw my two cents in, I have fabricated more than a few solid surface counter tops in my days as a residential cabinet maker.

 

For adhesives we used an MMA product (Methyl Methacrilate) that was blended with a colorant to make the seams disappear. Weldon 45 is good also but at the sizes we are talking here its extremely expensive, a 45ml cartridge is $30 and then you need the tips and dedicated applicator gun. About $100.00 total.

 

As you mentioned Corian is an acrylic product so Weldon16 might work, I think Home Depot sells it. Weldon3 is water thin, it might work. Weldon 40 should work also. I havent tried any of these three products with solid surface so take it with a grain of salt.

 

Prep wise I was taught to never use an impact cutting tool - table saw, jig saw etc, the micro grooves left by the blade was supposed to create a stress riser that could cause a fracture. In practice though we used a 10" 60 tooth TCG blade with a -5 degree hook angle. Then all joints were cleaned up with a spiral router bit. We cleaned our joints with acetone before gluing up and just enough clamping pressure to bring everything together.

 

You can turn solid surface materials, I think what might be happening here is the scale we work at, like you discovered it frigile. Also your cutting tool should not leave a sharp inside corner, that whole stress riser thing again.

 

As you found it's heat formable, like acrylic sheets you just need to heat slowly and completely, an oven works best. IMO a heat gun is too fast and localized.

 

It looks like you have abandoned the process but like I said I figured I would throw my two cents in.

 

Sam


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a long-term mental disorder involving a breakdown in the relation between thought, emotion, and behavior, leading to faulty perception, inappropriate actions and feelings and a masochistic need to obsessively rebuild items regardless of the naked eyes ability to see the difference.


#27
Moxis

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Interesting topic! For many years I have been using so called tooling board for my models. Mainly with car and tank models in the scale of 1/6. I have used the product called Sikablock, but there are many other trade names for this material too. The board is perfect material for sawing, sanding, turning, milling, etc. and can be glued & painted with ease. It behaves like wood, but doesn't have grain. Can be bought in many densities starting from almost foamlike to hardwood, and turning cannons or parts like that is no problem. I have often thought to build a complete ship model of this material, and after painting you couldn't say it is not made of wood.

Edited by Moxis, 19 August 2016 - 03:54 AM.

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#28
src

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Moxis,

That sounds like the same material I know of as sign foam. I never considered doing the kind of modeling we do here with it, interesting.

Sam


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Current Build Constructo Enterprise

 

Ship Modeling

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a long-term mental disorder involving a breakdown in the relation between thought, emotion, and behavior, leading to faulty perception, inappropriate actions and feelings and a masochistic need to obsessively rebuild items regardless of the naked eyes ability to see the difference.


#29
Modeler12

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Sam, I am out of town right now, but I was very interested in your comments and experience with Corian.

The sample piece I have worked with was left over from our kitchen counter top that was installed several  years ago. The top is a large u-shaped surface and the seams were not at the intersections but about six inches up from that. I recall that the installer used some kind of 'cement' that matched the color and pattern real well. In fact, to this day you cannot see where the joints are.

 

I still think that this material has some properties that could be useful in model making, but its brittleness makes it too sensitive for what I was trying to do.

 

But just the same, as others have said trying other materials can be fun and interesting.. Some might work, others not.


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Jay

 

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#30
src

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Enjoy your trip Jay.

 

Yes the seams should be off set from the corners to lessen the chances of the joint failing and the inside corners should have a radius.

 

As far as the adhesive its a two part MethylMethAcrlolate with a colorant added. I dont recall if the color packs are proprietary to to each manufacturer - Corian, Fountainhead, Avanite etc. I suspect you would have a hard time purchasing some. When I was fabricating you had to be certified, however, I have heard rumblings that that is no longer the case. Either way MMA adhesives are an expensive way to go. I suspect your best bet is epoxy or an acrylic cement like Weldon16 or Weldon40. Both Weldon products have Methylene Chloride in them so wear proper respirator.

 

I would think you could add some dye to the cement or epoxy to help hide the seam. Someplace like Smoothon, SilPak or BJB Enterprises should have dyes. A talk with one of their techs should tell you if the dye will color epoxy.

 

I did a quick Google search of "dyes for epoxy" and the top hit was StewMac.com He has two powdered furniture dyes that are for epoxy, they are made by Behlen. As I recall Behlen has a large lineup of tinting and touchup powders, mostly wood/earth tones but also primary colors too. They should blend in to epoxy as well as the Weldon products I mentioned.

 

Good luck and have a safe trip.

 

Sam

 


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Ship Modeling

Noun

a long-term mental disorder involving a breakdown in the relation between thought, emotion, and behavior, leading to faulty perception, inappropriate actions and feelings and a masochistic need to obsessively rebuild items regardless of the naked eyes ability to see the difference.


#31
michael mott

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I used some Corian for the spark plugs on the engine for Skipjack

 

IMG_5599x800.jpg

 

IMG_5602x800.jpg

 

IMG_5671x800.jpg

 

IMG_5698x800.jpg

 

I found that it turned well enough, Perhaps small cannons could be shaped after a hole is bored first then a steel or brass rod inserted to aid in supporting before shaping the external profile.

 

michael


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#32
src

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That is some nice work Micheal. What are the threaded brass items next to the corian in the top picture?

 

A supporting rod might help. I have never worked solid surface or acrylics at the scale we work at but my suspicion is that the slightest bit of chatter and the part will break. I dont have a mill or a lathe that can work at these sizes so I will have to watch and learn. I do know somebody who has successfully turned pens out of solid surface materials but other than the area where the ferule (?) attaches they are smooth.

Sam


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Current Build Constructo Enterprise

 

Ship Modeling

Noun

a long-term mental disorder involving a breakdown in the relation between thought, emotion, and behavior, leading to faulty perception, inappropriate actions and feelings and a masochistic need to obsessively rebuild items regardless of the naked eyes ability to see the difference.


#33
Moxis

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Wonderful engine Michael. Could you tell more about it? I used to build some small steam engines and love micro machining!
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#34
Ulises Victoria

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I am a late comer to this topic.

The question asked was : Does it have to be wood?

 

In my opinion, if it was wood in the original, then yes! It has to be wood. Unfortunately this is not always practical in ship modeling.

Making belaying pins at 1/90 or smaller scale is almost impossible. I would love to see (and I am yet to see)  a kit where everything that was wood in the original, is wood in the kit.

My other hobby and part business is turning pens. Wood is my favorite media. I turn acrylics only because they are much more colorful and some people likes the reds and blues and yellows and sparkling goldens. I have also turned some corian, but it comes out very dull. There are not bright colors in corian,

So to me, wood is wood and by far, my preferred material to both make ships and turning pens.


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Ulises

 

If you want something you've never had, 

you have to do something you've never done.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Current Project Build Log: French Vessel Royal Louis 1780. 1/90 Scale by Mamoli. 120 Cannons

 
Last finished projectRoyal Ship Vasa 1628 

 

Future projects already in my stash:  Panart: San Felipe 1/75  (most likely my next project);

                                                         Artesanía Latina: HMS Surprise 1/48;

                                                         OcCre: Santísima Trinidad 1/90.

 

My Wish List: Soleil Royale. Sovereign of the Seas. Amati 1/64 Victory (if it ever comes out :) )


#35
druxey

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Silly question: looking at those spark plugs, I wonder if Corian is also an electrical insulator? (Not that I'd consider using Corian for the purpose!)


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#36
michael mott

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What are the threaded brass items next to the corian in the top picture?

 

Sam the brass pieces are part of the cylinder head that form the section that the spark plug threads into this cross section shows the brass insert the comment that the spark plug is integrated is wrong.

 

spark plug.jpg

 

The steel plug threads into the brass one which is part of the head.

 

Druxey yes the Corian is an insulator I have tested the plug using a Piezoelectric current it sparks very well across the core to the case at the business end of the plug.

 

Moxis there is a comprehensive description of the engine here

 

Michael


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Current builds  Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8

 

                                Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8

 

                               Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8

 

Other projects  Pilot Cutter 1:500

 

                         Maria, Sloop 1:2

 

Restoration      A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100

 

Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.


#37
Modeler12

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In my opinion, if it was wood in the original, then yes! It has to be wood. Unfortunately this is not always practical in ship modeling.

Making belaying pins at 1/90 or smaller scale is almost impossible. I would love to see (and I am yet to see)  a kit where everything that was wood in the original, is wood in the kit.

Good luck, Ulises. I concur with your desire, but doubt that it will ever happen.
Models are just that; a representation of what the original looked like (perhaps how it behaved, how it was built, etc.). But that should not restrict the modeler as to what to use in a much smaller scale.

As I mentioned before, there are parts that will never be made 'the way it was', even full scale. Kontiki tried but had lots of compromises.
 

Rope is not made from the same materials nor the way it was plied. Neither are cannons, chimneys, and anchors to give a couple of examples.

So, you don't like the following?

ivory 2.jpg

 

ivory.jpg


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Jay

 

Current build Cross Section USS Constitution  http://modelshipworl...s-constitution/

Finished USS Constitution:  http://modelshipworl...n-by-modeler12/

 

'A picture is worth a  . . . . .'      More is better . . . .


#38
Ulises Victoria

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Oh yes! I do like those and have profound admiration for the craftsmanship involved in making them. But I would never attempt to do something like that. Besides being outside my level of skill by a mile, I would rather invest my time and effort in making something more closely similar to the original.

But as you said... that will never happen in a kit!


Edited by Ulises Victoria, 24 August 2016 - 01:40 AM.

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Ulises

 

If you want something you've never had, 

you have to do something you've never done.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Current Project Build Log: French Vessel Royal Louis 1780. 1/90 Scale by Mamoli. 120 Cannons

 
Last finished projectRoyal Ship Vasa 1628 

 

Future projects already in my stash:  Panart: San Felipe 1/75  (most likely my next project);

                                                         Artesanía Latina: HMS Surprise 1/48;

                                                         OcCre: Santísima Trinidad 1/90.

 

My Wish List: Soleil Royale. Sovereign of the Seas. Amati 1/64 Victory (if it ever comes out :) )


#39
Modeler12

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Michael that is some fantastic work.

 

Now that I see what you did with Corian, I will have to give it another try.

Like I said before, I could use brass, but that is another media that I am not familiar with when it comes to turning tiny parts.

In either case, I will have to experiment some more. :rolleyes:


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Jay

 

Current build Cross Section USS Constitution  http://modelshipworl...s-constitution/

Finished USS Constitution:  http://modelshipworl...n-by-modeler12/

 

'A picture is worth a  . . . . .'      More is better . . . .


#40
src

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Jay,

Looking at your picture of the cannon that fractured got me thinking. As I mentioned above, corian does not like to be cut with impact type blades - table saws, jig saws etc. When you were turning your piece, as you rounded of the corners fromm square to round you were in essence using an impact cutter. as the corners came around they hit the knife. I suspect that you may have introduced micro fractures in your material that later failed. Maybe try chucking a hole saw up in your tail stock to remove the corners and then turning? I imagine you would remove the center bit first. That would eliminate the impact question, keep in mind the end of your cut will be a stress riser and will want to break there. I am not familiar with metal lathes, perhaps there is a way after you could remove the square edge at the end of the cut. Do that then turn your piece. boar your muzzle at the very end. I think I would hesitate to put too much pressure with a live center, maybe just enough to keep the end from wobbling.

 

Even after all that, it is possible that a solid surface part that small and detailed will just want to break, after all it was never designed for this.

 

Good luck if you revisit and keep us posted.

Sam


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Current Build Constructo Enterprise

 

Ship Modeling

Noun

a long-term mental disorder involving a breakdown in the relation between thought, emotion, and behavior, leading to faulty perception, inappropriate actions and feelings and a masochistic need to obsessively rebuild items regardless of the naked eyes ability to see the difference.





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