Semaphores on ships

[dafi]

I realised some "chimneys" on the 19th century Victory that by now I identy to be semaphores. 

I already found a nearer picture from aboard the Vic :-)

If my interpretation is wright, it could be a x-formed stand with metal bars as bracings, a middle pole with the operating unit at chest level and the semaphores on top. I also think it could be a transportable unit for training purposes, to send messages from fo´castle to the poop.

So that means: Time to have a closer look :-)

Does anybody has further reference upon the maritime version of these instruments? Google mostly shows railroad versions.

Cheers, Daniel

 

 

[dafi]

Through a hint by a german forums mate I found the following

The 3 arms atop are operated by wires with a chain in the area of the pinion shaft. The arm on the bottom possibly is manipulated by hand and only indicates the orientation of the device.

Question: How are the three arms operated? By a sliding pinion shaft? It looks like the 3 chains are on the same axis.

Both bigger pictures come apparently from HMS Campertown, so the nation and timeframe would fit.

HMS Campertown 1885 Wikipedia

XXXDAn

 

 

[trippwj]

Dan - perhaps this site may be of some use to you: http://www.gwpda.org/naval/s0900000.htm. I have not yet been able to locate the original source document in on-line format, other than the bibliographic information:

 

Admiralty, Great Britain. 1913. Handbook of Signalling. H.M. Stationery Office.

 

1. The Alphabetical Sign shows from which side the signs are to be read.

2. The Signs, as a general rule, are made by a Signalman facing the ships addressed; they are read from the right-hand side of the sending Signalman.

3. As it is often necessary to signal in opposite directions by the same semaphore, Signalmen must be careful to observe in which direction the Sender is facing, more especially when he is using hand flags, so that they can tell the side they must read the signs from their point of view. It should be noted that when the Alphabetical Sign is shown it is the left arm which is extended horizontally.

[John Allen]

Wayyyyy back in the 50s when I was a boy scout my father then a Chief Quartermaster was an instructor at the Coast Guard Academy. He had gotten special permission for us to attend an outside class he was giving to cadets in signaling with semaphore flags. I have an old picture (sadly faded and cracked) of him standing on a raised platform with 2 flags held at the 3:30 position. 

 

The cherry on the cake was a tour of the Eagle later that day. Thanks for jogging up an old memory.

[overdale]

Here's a 'no frills'  Civil War version.. 

 

Dan.

[jud]

Semaphore has been around a long time for ship to ship or shore communications, believe that it is expected for a signalman to send 8 five letter words a minute, from my Merchant Seaman's Manual, 'fifth edition 1964' and numbers were spelled out. I would expect that those Wigwags used a fleet prearranged code, like some prearranged Flag Hoists were used., not general semaphore that all in sight might read.

jud

[jbshan]

So these are in lieu of or in addition to flag wagging?

Apparently both the French and British had semaphore systems for long-distance transmission over land during the 1793-1815 period.  No doubt the arms were bigger than in these photos for longer range, headland to headland or hilltop to hilltop.

[popeye2sea]

I have a copy of the Manual of Seamanship for Boys and Seamen of the Royal Navy, 1904.  In it is described the use of the semaphore device (2 arm).  The position of the arms for the alphabet are exactly the same as the ones I used as a signalman for the U.S. Navy for semaphore flags.  For numbers the numeral pennant was hoisted to alter the meaning of the semaphore.  The lower indicator arm shows the direction the semaphore should be read from.  The arm points toward the sending signalman's right.  A momentary pause is made between each letter or sign, and the arms are dropped between each word or group. The same procedure is still used today.

 

On the receiving ship, the answering pennant is hoisted at the dip when the signal is seen and closed up when ready to read the semaphore signal.

 

Regards,

Edited August 24, 2016 by popeye2sea

[John Allen]

So these are in lieu of or in addition to flag wagging?

Apparently both the French and British had semaphore systems for long-distance transmission over land during the 1793-1815 period.  No doubt the arms were bigger than in these photos for longer range, headland to headland or hilltop to hilltop.

I might be wrong but I think they used 3 pig bladders on 3 different lines on the towers, and fortresses.  Bladders were painted black?

[jud]

John, I also have read that pig bladders were used.

jud

 Will add that having looked through lots of Transits, levels and total stations I have learned a bit about what colors can best be seen from a distance when the distortion and shimmer is doing it's thing. Surprisingly it is the color black that makes it easier to determine the center of the shimmer, orange, red or white not near as good, keep in mind this is at distances greater than a thousand feet. Can't pick out the center of the target because of shimmer, go to the grocery store and obtain a cardboard box, cut it into a target, paint it a flat black, set it over the point and go wind up your angles. A black pigs bladder makes lots of sense to me.

Edited August 26, 2016 by jud

[popeye2sea]

US Navy currently uses black painted shapes for daytime nav light signals.  Black circle represents the same as a red light and a black cone or diamond represents the same as a white light.

 

Regards,

[John Allen]

Here I go again I believe in the British Army these towers were manned by British Naval personnel usually by young Ensigns temporarily assigned to the army since they were already familiar with code and sending signals shipboard. I think???

[trippwj]

Here I go again I believe in the British Army these towers were manned by British Naval personnel usually by young Ensigns temporarily assigned to the army since they were already familiar with code and sending signals shipboard. I think???

 

According to the Royal Signals Museum:

 

"In 1796, the Admiralty adopted a shutter-type machine, known as the ‘Murray Lettering Telegraph’ which was successfully used to communicate between London and Devonport. A year later the Army introduced the Radiated Telegraph System. The Radiated Telegraph System was more mobile system than the Murray Telegraph and remained in use throughout the Napoleonic wars."

 

 

There is much more, but they also note the following:

 

"Visual communications reached a peak during the second Boer war, and was the primary means of communications for forward control. Large and small flags, heliograph and oil lamps with shutters for night communications were all utilised. Skilled operators could signal between 8 and 12 words per minute. The climatic conditions were ideal for heliograph and the 10″ mirror could be seen for up to 100 miles. The Museum has equipment to demonstrate all these forms of communications."

 

I suspect, though can't confirm, that the inter-service rivalry was such that neither would welcome a junior officer from the other with much warmth.