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In Praise Of Lacquer


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#1
Julie Mo

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I  made a rudder from jotoba.  In the image below I shaped the rudder then sanded it to 220.  I sprayed it with Home Depot bought Minwax gloss lacquer.  Three coats.  Let it dry.  Three more coats.  Let it dry.  Then knock down the high spots (I used a card scraper) and hit it with two more coats. 

Endv_022.jpg

I then wet sanded it to what you see here.

 

The entire process was under an hour.  FWIW...

 


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Endeavour - 1934 American's Cup, UK Challenger, J-Class - Amati 1:35


#2
Canute

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Nicely done, Julie. Color is great. :cheers:


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Ken

 

Started: MS Bounty Longboat,

On Hold:  Heinkel USS Choctaw paper

Down the road: Shipyard HMC Alert 1/96 paper, Mamoli Constitution Cross, MS USN Picket Boat #1

Scratchbuild: Echo Cross Section

 

Member Nautical Research Guild


#3
Julie Mo

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I posted this to show what can be done with lacquer in a very short time.  The actual time spent working was maybe 10-15 minutes and that included initially sanding the wood to 220, spraying the first few coats, smoothing down the bumps, final spraying and wet sanding with Micro Mesh to 12000.

 

I won't be using this rudder on the model I'm building, but if I did, I would have sprayed some more coats and done a better job wet sanding it.  I know a lot of modelers go to poly but, to me anyway, poly is too labor intensive and very difficult to make repairs later on.  Poly is designed for pieces that will take a real beating,  The models I see here should never be subject to that.

 

Nitrocellulose lacquer is the purist's choice on guitars and other instruments.  It brings out the beauty of the wood, lasts a long time and is easily repaired.  It would seem to me to be the perfect finish for modelers but I don't see it here.  Is there a reason for this that I am missing?   


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Endeavour - 1934 American's Cup, UK Challenger, J-Class - Amati 1:35


#4
druxey

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Nice, but do this under very well ventilated conditions, please!


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#5
mtaylor

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Nitrocellulose lacquer is the purist's choice on guitars and other instruments.  It brings out the beauty of the wood, lasts a long time and is easily repaired.  It would seem to me to be the perfect finish for modelers but I don't see it here.  Is there a reason for this that I am missing?   

 

I think most of us don't know about this.  And there's the "how to get" and "how to apply" issues... is it available in spray can? Brush only? Or need an airbrush?   


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Mark

"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me


Current Build:

Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0

Past Builds:
Triton Cross-Section
USS Constellaton (kit bashed to 1854 Sloop of War (Gallery) Build Log
Wasa (Gallery)


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#6
Julie Mo

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Mark,

 

To do the rudder in the picture above I used Minwax gloss spray lacquer.  I bought it at Home Depot.  For the guitars I have built, I use Behlen Stringed Instrument gloss lacquer from quart cans and spray it with an HVLP sprayer.  But for models, I wouldn't think that level would be necessary.  

 

For touch ups on guitars, I have used Behlen Stringed Instrument lacquer from a spray can.  You can buy it on Amazon and even at Wal Mart.  To be honest, I really can't tell the difference between spray cans of Behlen vs. Minwax.  Maybe somewhere down the line the difference would be evident.  That's something George Wilson from SMC could tell you.  He's not a fan of Behlen but it's worked well for me.

 

As druxey mentioned, you do need good ventilation with nitro lacquer.  I took the rudder to the garage and sprayed it there.   


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Endeavour - 1934 American's Cup, UK Challenger, J-Class - Amati 1:35


#7
mtaylor

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That sounds like something I'll look into for the next model as the hull exterior on the current one is pretty much done and finished with Wipe On Poly.  I'm aware of the ventilation needs after painting cars with lacquer and rubbing them out.  


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Mark

"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me


Current Build:

Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0

Past Builds:
Triton Cross-Section
USS Constellaton (kit bashed to 1854 Sloop of War (Gallery) Build Log
Wasa (Gallery)


Member of the Nautical Research Guild


#8
Canute

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I used to paint brass railroad equipment with a lacquer - Scalecoat I. Always did it outside/in the garage. Figured out pretty quickly to mask up - the smell and getting a headache.

 

Be careful spraying any paint; even acrylics. The over-spray there may not stink, but your lungs don't like any foreign objects.


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Ken

 

Started: MS Bounty Longboat,

On Hold:  Heinkel USS Choctaw paper

Down the road: Shipyard HMC Alert 1/96 paper, Mamoli Constitution Cross, MS USN Picket Boat #1

Scratchbuild: Echo Cross Section

 

Member Nautical Research Guild


#9
Julie Mo

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I set up a spray tent in my basement and installed a 6" fan, ducted to the outside.  I would suit up in Tyvek hooded coveralls, nitrile gloves, goggles and a NIOSH P100 respirator before I started spraying.  As I progressed through the spraying process, I would take pictures.  One picture shocked me.

lacquer_cloud_zps85cb9791.jpg

This was taken right after spraying with an HVLP sprayer.  I could not see the spray particles still in the air but the flash of the camera picked it up.  It was a real eye opener. 


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Endeavour - 1934 American's Cup, UK Challenger, J-Class - Amati 1:35


#10
Julie Mo

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That sounds like something I'll look into for the next model as the hull exterior on the current one is pretty much done and finished with Wipe On Poly.  I'm aware of the ventilation needs after painting cars with lacquer and rubbing them out.  

Mark,

 

If you haven't already used it, boiled linseed oil works well bringing out the grain of the wood.  It also gives it an aged look as it imparts a yellow tint to the wood.  Wipe it on and just before it dries, wipe it off.  Only caveat is it needs to be sealed with dewaxed shellac before applying a finish.  Zinnser Seal Coat is a good choice for sealing BLO.  After that, you can apply any finish.  Dewaxed shellac does not react with any finish, other than alcohol based finishes.


Edited by Julie Mo, 06 September 2016 - 05:08 PM.

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Endeavour - 1934 American's Cup, UK Challenger, J-Class - Amati 1:35


#11
Salty Sea Dog

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Hi Julie Mo

Nice looking burst on the guitar btw!

Have you ever worked with shellac from flakes? No need to mask up unless you spray it, and you get a look similar to your jatoba rudder. I kind of went overboard French polishing my whaleboat, but as a luthier, you probably suffer from the same obsessions with wood finishes! :)
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-Buck

 

Current build: AL Morgan's Whaleboat (1st build)

 

Kits in the ships locker: I cannot confirm nor deny that there may be a few kits in there...


#12
Jaager

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My take on lacquer:

Spraying is the preferred method of application.

It is available for brush application.

It can develop into layer that has significant thickness.

I use it to coat timber patterns from my printer.

Three coats produces a pattern that is similar to having the patterns printed on Mylar.

I have over come my compulsion and only apply one coat now.

It dries fast and a repeat coat can be applied after 2 hrs when brushed. Spray may have a shorter time.

The solvent is an irritating gemisch of organic chemicals. There is a "green" version of lacquer thinner, but I 

do not find it any less obnoxious that the standard tinner. While a mask may protect against airborne material, 

when sprayed. it will not protect from the solvent vapors. They are a gas as is air.  If you can breathe thru the

mask, the solvent vapor will also get thru.  You need a separate air supply when spraying or good ventilation 

when brushed.

 

I think shellac, and the oils like Tung and linseed form much thinner layers. 

The problem I have with lacquer is the finish is too thick on a model, it is usually too glossy and would have a model

looking like a toy instead of a subtle piece of art.


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#13
hornet

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Agree with Jaager, matte or satin finish. Never gloss :(

Edited by hornet, 28 September 2016 - 11:36 AM.

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Hornet

 

Current Build: - Caldercraft - HMAV Bounty

 

Completed Ship Builds:

                                     Caldercraft - HM Brig Supply (In Gallery)

                                     Aeropiccola - Golden Hind

                                                        - Constitution

                                     Clipper Seawitch (maker unknown - too long ago to remember!)

                                     Corel - Victory

                                     Modeller's Shipyard - A Schooner of Port Jackson - In Gallery

                                                                      - Brig `Perseverance' - In Gallery

                                                                      - Cutter `Mermaid'- In Gallery

                                                                      - Sirius Longboat (bashed) - In Gallery

                                                                      - Sloop Norfolk - In Gallery

                                      Completed Cannon:   - French 18th Century Naval Cannon

                                                                      - Napoleonic 12 pound field piece

                                                                      - English 18th Century Carronade

                                       On the shelf awaiting construction: - Caldercraft  - HM Bark Endeavour 


#14
Julie Mo

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Hi Julie Mo

Nice looking burst on the guitar btw!

Have you ever worked with shellac from flakes? No need to mask up unless you spray it, and you get a look similar to your jatoba rudder. I kind of went overboard French polishing my whaleboat, but as a luthier, you probably suffer from the same obsessions with wood finishes! :)

Hi Buck,

 

I started on flakes.  I have amber, blonde and super blonde flakes and use those when I need a certain color tone.  I found spraying it a bit of a pain.  It clogged up the sprayer and was a bear to clean out of the cup completely.  I've done very little French polishing but I am considering honing my skills and seeing if I want to do it on the hull.  Mahogany is fairly porous and French polishing would work well filling those voids.


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Endeavour - 1934 American's Cup, UK Challenger, J-Class - Amati 1:35


#15
uss frolick

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When I read this thread title, I wasn't wearing my glasses. I initially thought it said "In Praise of Liquor". :)


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#16
Julie Mo

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Jaager and Hornet,

 

I'm not sure I agree with you on the finish.  I have seen some gorgeous gloss-finished wood sailboat hulls

an-00001.jpg

 

R470COL2.jpg DSCN0361.jpg


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Endeavour - 1934 American's Cup, UK Challenger, J-Class - Amati 1:35


#17
popeye the sailor

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lacquer is a funny animal.........there has to be a dry condition,  or you get white.........is this what your referring to?   humidity kills lacquer.  I use lacquer quite a bit....I like the hard finish and the gloss {if that's what your looking for.   I use a semi gloss.......decks will suck it up like a sponge,  so the sheen,  if any,  will die down as it dries.   I've never gone over three coats.......and I have used it with my airbrush.   there is some prep to it........especially if I do it in the cellar.   I'll run a heater..........a fan on low pointed down wind,  and the windows down wind are opened.   if you can get some heat into your booth,  it would help too

 

if you are using an airbrush with a reservoir tank,  you should drain it every once in a while,  to insure that there is no moisture build up.  depending what pressure your spraying at,  turning it down will prevent 'icing' at the nozzle.   moisture can develop when paint is sprayed through an oriffice such as an airbrush....siphon or gravity


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I yam wot I yam!


finished builds:
Billings Nordkap 476 / Billings Cux 87 / Billings Mary Ann / Billings AmericA - reissue
Billings Regina - bashed into the Susan A / Andrea Gail 1:20 - semi scratch w/ Billing instructions
M&M Fun Ship - semi scratch build / Gundalow - scratch build
Phylly C & Denny-Zen - the Lobsie twins - bashed / semi scratch dual build

 

on the table:
Billing's Gothenborg 1:100 / Billing's Boulogne Etaples 1:20
Billing's Half Moon 1:40 - some scratch required
Revell U.S.S. United States 1:96 - plastic/ wood modified / Academy Titanic 1:400
Trawler Syborn - semi scratch / Holiday Harbor dual build - semi scratch


#18
popeye the sailor

popeye the sailor

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I think those types of boats need that finish to glide through the water better.    you can get a much better look,  if done in light coats.  it will also dry faster.


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I yam wot I yam!


finished builds:
Billings Nordkap 476 / Billings Cux 87 / Billings Mary Ann / Billings AmericA - reissue
Billings Regina - bashed into the Susan A / Andrea Gail 1:20 - semi scratch w/ Billing instructions
M&M Fun Ship - semi scratch build / Gundalow - scratch build
Phylly C & Denny-Zen - the Lobsie twins - bashed / semi scratch dual build

 

on the table:
Billing's Gothenborg 1:100 / Billing's Boulogne Etaples 1:20
Billing's Half Moon 1:40 - some scratch required
Revell U.S.S. United States 1:96 - plastic/ wood modified / Academy Titanic 1:400
Trawler Syborn - semi scratch / Holiday Harbor dual build - semi scratch


#19
hornet

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Julie Mo

Yep you are probably correct for modern boats such as those you have pictured. However, for period models (which take up a large portion of this site) gloss is not appropriate. I think that is what Jaager was trying to say anyway. I usually apply matte or satin polyurethane 50:50 with low odour turps using an airbrush. I apply 3 - 4 coats to the hull sanding very lightly between coats.

Cheers
Steve.

Edited by hornet, 28 September 2016 - 09:59 PM.

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Hornet

 

Current Build: - Caldercraft - HMAV Bounty

 

Completed Ship Builds:

                                     Caldercraft - HM Brig Supply (In Gallery)

                                     Aeropiccola - Golden Hind

                                                        - Constitution

                                     Clipper Seawitch (maker unknown - too long ago to remember!)

                                     Corel - Victory

                                     Modeller's Shipyard - A Schooner of Port Jackson - In Gallery

                                                                      - Brig `Perseverance' - In Gallery

                                                                      - Cutter `Mermaid'- In Gallery

                                                                      - Sirius Longboat (bashed) - In Gallery

                                                                      - Sloop Norfolk - In Gallery

                                      Completed Cannon:   - French 18th Century Naval Cannon

                                                                      - Napoleonic 12 pound field piece

                                                                      - English 18th Century Carronade

                                       On the shelf awaiting construction: - Caldercraft  - HM Bark Endeavour 


#20
Julie Mo

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I agree, Steve.  I wasn't thinking of period ships.  My brain is wired for the 20th century on.  To me, a sailing vessel built in 1934 is REALLY old. :rolleyes:


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Endeavour - 1934 American's Cup, UK Challenger, J-Class - Amati 1:35





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