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Would This Glue Serve A Useful Purpose In Model Building?


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35 replies to this topic

#21
Julie Mo

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Bill, the baby bottle warmer is shown in the video in post #6.  He used baby food jars for the hide glue and caps and refrigerates them after use.

 

As I am gaining more experience with hide glue on the 2nd planking of my build, I am finding I prefer it over either CA or PVA glues.  I thought the requirement for heating it prior to using it would be a mental obstacle but it doesn't bother me at all.  The glue pot and heater I purchased make this part of preparation very easy. 

 

I also appreciate how quickly it sets up, yet not so quickly that you have to work fast though.  It's also nice there are no concerns about getting it on your fingers, just wash it off with water.  I have used finger pressure on places difficult to clamp or pin and held it in place until the glue set.  Try this with CA and your fingers are one with the planking.  Try this with PVA and your fingers will cramp before the glue sets.

 

I have inserted sliver-sized spiles by dipping them in the glue pot and sliding them in place.  The glue leaves no traces like CA or PVA might by darkening the wood and sealing it.  And, if I understand this correctly, there are no worries about hide glue being left on the surface when it comes to applying dyes, stains or finishes.  So far, I'm pretty happy I made the plunge.


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Endeavour - 1934 American's Cup, UK Challenger, J-Class - Amati 1:35


#22
daddyrabbit1954

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All of you have convinced my I should try using Hide glue. Will look about ordering some along with a warmer. Thanks for starting this thread and introducing (reintroducing) an old tried and true adhesive.


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#23
Julie Mo

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Check out Music Caravan in your search.  The more I use their glue pot and warmer, the better I like it.  It's very well made and the pot that holds the glue is heavy and holds heat well if case you want to take it out to use it.  It was $100 well spent.  Also be aware of the gram strength.  192 gram strength is what the luthiers seem to prefer and it has worked well for the 2nd planking I am doing now. 


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#24
Julie Mo

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This morning I was browsing through the most recent Woodcraft catalog.  In their glue section they sell (3) different gram strengths of hide glue and describe how each is used:

 

192 Gram Strength - Longer open time and perfect for marquetry and veneering (I'll add planking to that list), and is considered by many the best hide glue for first time hide glue users.

 

251 Gram Strength - Considered best for general woodworking and cabinetry

 

315 Gram Strength - With the shortest open time, it is best suited for lutherie work and small repairs.

 

My comment on these is the shorter open times of the last two may make them ideal for anything that can't be clamped -  hold it in place with your fingers until the glue sets.  You only need to move your fingers around a bit to keep the glue from sticking to your skin.  With the 192, I can use this method but it takes about 5-7 minutes to set depending on resistance (spring back) in the wood.

 

Also noted in the catalog:

 

Titebond liquid hide glue - Moderate set time (usually over an hour depending on temperature and moisture) permits unhurried assembly of wood, cloth glass, etc.  Allow 24 hours for full-strength bond.

 

Old Brown Glue - Fresh "hot" hide glue in a bottle.  Heat glue by putting in the sun or warm water bath for a few minutes.  30 minute open time.


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Endeavour - 1934 American's Cup, UK Challenger, J-Class - Amati 1:35


#25
biltut

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Julie,

 

Very interesting, for ship model use I have been using the Titebond Liquid Hide glue since I have only used it diluted for rigging knots.  I have heated the other for antique furniture repair.  I heard about the "Old Brown Glue" on the FineWoodworking Podcast "ShopTalk Live" where they were very complimentary of it.  


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Bill

 

Current Build:

Kate Cory Scratch Built

 

Previous Builds:

Benjamin W. Latham Scratch Built

H A Parks Skipjack Scratch Built

Charles W. Morgan Model Shipways Kit

Rattlesnake Model Shipways Kit

Diligence Model Shipways Kit

 


#26
bluenose2

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Hello Les here. In one of the woodworking magazines I get they had a test of the most popular glues including regular carpenters wood glue, Gorilla glue, epoxy and all of the others. They glued two pieces of oak at right angles and after drying put them in a press to see how strong they were. After tests the winner was good old Elmers carpenters glue. Have used this product for years without failure. In my opinion, no need to reinvent the wheel. Affordable and effective.


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#27
Julie Mo

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Actually Les, hide glue has been around for thousands of years.  Instruments made several hundreds of years ago with hide glue are still holding strong today.  Hide glue has a pretty good track record.  No reinventing the wheel here.

 

I chose hide glue to plank the hull of my model because it sets in minutes, does not stick to your skin, is easy to clean off, does not discolor the wood and can be reversed should you need to "unglue" something.  I could not do what I am doing on my model with PVA glue, at least not with the same ease and speed I have experienced using hide glue.


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#28
bluenose2

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Of course you are correct Julie. My only consideration was that newer builders will get more than satisfactory results by sticking to standard wood glue. Using hot hide glue requires tools and a skill set of it's own. Titebond makes a bottled version so no heating required. Popular Woodworking magazine has a good article on tests between hot hide glue and Titebonds liquid version. If you are experienced with this format then by all means, it becomes another tool in the arsenal of a builder.


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#29
Julie Mo

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I agree with you, Les, all except the part about using hide glue requiring a skill set.  Before using it, I would have thought the same thing.  But now I have to say hide glue has a very easy learning curve.

 

As an example, I have never worked with a glue where I could push the piece into place with my fingers, while the glue oozes out, and watch the piece gradually adhere to the form.  It's actually kind of fun seeing this.  Granted, if the wood is bending too much, it will want to spring back but for gradual bends I have found hide glue does a really good job of keeping things in place.  If I knew how to, I'd do a video.

 

And I am loving the fact it is so easy to clean up.  When I think of using CA glue on my guitars and believing that was the only way to get things to stick together quickly (including my fingers) I wish I knew about hot hide glue.  CA may never pass my way again.  (enter Seals & Crofts)   ;) 


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#30
bluenose2

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Hello Julie Mo. Les here. What type  and what brand of a heater pot do you use?


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#31
Julie Mo

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Hi Les,

 

A friend of mine, who is a far better luthier then I, suggested a glue pot he bought at Music Caravan.  I bought it with the heater.  It's perfect for detail work and small projects and keeps the glue at the right temperature.

gpheater.jpggp1.jpghank1.jpg

 

I also bought 1 pound of their hide glue.  I am very happy with the purchase. 

 


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#32
bluenose2

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Hi Julie, Les here. Do you use hide glue for the entire build or only a portion of the build?  I may be getting on board with this method.


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#33
Julie Mo

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Hi Les,

 

So far, I have only used it on the 2nd planking.  If I knew about it when I started, I would have used it on everything I have done so far.  I realize there will probably be times when I might resort to PVA or CA glue.  This is my first model so I cannot predict when those other glues might be preferable. 

 

I know if I am looking at using CA or hide glue, I would choose hide glue because I like to be able to press down with my fingers without gluing my fingers to the wood.  CA would be necessary if you need low viscosity because hide glue is closer to syrup than water in viscosity.  I'm trying to think when PVA would be preferable but so far, I can't think of any application it would.  I guess I will find out as I progress.


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#34
bluenose2

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Hi Les here. Does the hide glue set quickly, or does it have an extended working time like PVA glue?


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#35
Julie Mo

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Hide glue begins to set up in about 5-10 seconds but you can still pull the piece off and reset it by dabbing on more glue.  It takes maybe a minute or so to hold wood that is under stress, more if it is under a lot of stress.  Until 10 minutes or so you can clean up squeeze out pretty easily.  After that you may need a sharp tool like a chisel to clean it up.

 

I have held a piece in place with my fingers for 10 seconds and the glue will hold it as long as there isn't a lot of stress.  I have taken of pieces after approximately 15 seconds without breaking them.  It's pretty user friendly. 


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#36
Julie Mo

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Update:

 

I am continuing to use hide glue on the second planking.  I have not once considered switching back to Titebond, which I used for all of the first planking.  But that is not to say hide glue leaves nothing to be desired. 

 

On the downside, you have to mix it (but once mixed you can store it in the refrigerator for easy access).  You have to wait until it's hot enough to use.  That could be 10-20 minutes.  If you are working with it all day, you have to add water occasionally or it will become gummy and difficult to use.  And on long planks, it can dry before the entire plank is secured.  I've switched to gluing a section at a time on long planks and that seems to solve the problem.

 

What I love about it - I can press the wood into place and hold it there while the glue sets (as long as spring back isn't an issue).  It dries quickly allowing me to lay more planks in a day than I could with Titebond.  It washes off my hands easily.  It doesn't seal the wood pores like other glues but you do have to remove any surface glue before finishing.

 

One other update - in the Christmas catalog from Lee Valley, I saw they sell a glue pot and warmer for $36.50.  That's a little over 1/3 what I paid for mine.  The only things I would want on their glue pot is an opening in the top for the brush and maybe a little larger lifting arm.  The glue pot can get pretty hot.  And I hope that button opposite the lifting arm isn't a locking button because that would be a pain.  The size is perfect for model building.    

09a0282s1.jpg 

 

09a0282s2.jpg


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