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Bending with heat only


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34 replies to this topic

#21
Sunsanvil

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Wouldn't that be equivalent to just soaking in hot water? Or perhaps steaming?

I don't believe so. With one method the steam itself is the heat source, with the other the water is simply a barrier against scorching from a dry heat source (air or an iron).

Admittedly I'm only just getting acquainted with wood in my modelng journey, but I imagine one should use whatever method works best for a fairytale giant building a tiny ship...and those methods may be different from that of a 1:1 man. After all we don't have 1:16, 1:48, 1:350 size men on our desks helping us. :).

Edited by Sunsanvil, 19 November 2016 - 09:33 PM.

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#22
probablynot

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...  a fairytale giant building a tiny ship  ...  methods may be different from that of a 1:1 man. After all we don't have 1:16, 1:48, 1:350 size men on our desks helping us. :).

 

Are you trying to tell me the guys who live in the box marked "palm chisels" on my workbench aren't real?
Not that they've been doing much work recently.  I think they've worked out how to siphon the gin from my workshop bottle ...


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Brian

Current project: - Constructo "Silhouet" 1893 (Dutch barge) http://modelshipworl...constructo-160/

Some previous builds - HMS Bounty Launch [Model Shipways kit] http://modelshipworl...s-116-smallish/

Corel's Half Moon (lightly 'bashed')  http://modelshipworl...scale-150-wood/

A 1:12 scratch-build of 'Anastasia', my old sailing kayak from back in the 1940s. http://modelshipworl...by-probablynot-a-18-re-build-of-my-1949-kayak/

Next project: - I'm thinking.   Might be Victory Models' HMS Fly.  A pretty ship - miles of rigging ...


#23
mtdoramike

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I would be concerned with the heat warping the hull.

 

 

mike


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#24
tkay11

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Just on the topic of using dry heat, I took the following shot of plank bending being done over an open hearth at a ship-builder's at Essaouira in Morocco a couple of years ago.

 

That's a fairly thick plank, now with a very nice curve. It's lying on an iron bar, which probably acts a bit like the hair curling tongs, though I think this one wasn't borrowed from his partner.

P1030007s.jpg

 

Tony


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===
First build: Caldercraft HM Cutter Sherbourne 1763 FINISHED

2nd and current build: Triton cross-section


#25
wefalck

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OK, the thread is already a few weeks old, but I just wanted to chip in. Below is a picture from a dhow-building place in Nungwi on Zanzibar in 2012, where these boats are built using the traditional methods:

 

124127-72.jpg

Source: http://www.maritima-...a/tanzania.html

 

The scorching shows that an open flame was used to soften the garboard plank, which then was held in shape and place until set using various clamps and levers.

 

Steam-bending was and is a common process in furniture-making. The most famous of all probably is the German firm Thonet, that had before the war their main production facilties in what is now the Czech Republic. They made incredible complex pieces using massive cast-iron pattern to hold the steamed wood in shape until set.

 

On the hot-air soldering station: I got mine several years ago and use it on all sorts of heating tasks between 100°C and 400°C(not F !). No problems with the equipment so far. I rarely read product reviews for such things as I feel quite capable to deal with issues. One problem is that people pay KIA and expect to get Mercedes. There is a reason why things are cheap and not only economy of scale, so I am prepared to rectify (some) issues as a trade off for a lower purchase price (that not necessarily guarantees quality these days). A lot of the Chines-made equipment has to be considered to be in an 'advanced stage of production' and you can finish it to your requirements. With this attitude you safe yourself a lot of aggravation.

 

If the air-gun comes on, when the main switch is off, this is, of course, a concern. However, by looking at the wiring, it is easy to tell, wether the main switch is really the last element before the wires leave the box. If not this would need to be rectified. Otherwise, I have all my equipment plugged into extensions that can be switched off and that are so, when I am not in the workshop. Or, I unplug pieces of equipment out of principle.


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wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

M-et-M-72.jpg  Banner-AKHS-72.jpg  Banner-AAMM-72.jpg  ImagoOrbis-72.jpg

#26
Sunsanvil

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That takes me back. I spent many years in East Africa some time ago and recall visiting the Dhow builders in Lamu. Fascinating old-world craftsmanship!

 

B


Edited by Sunsanvil, 07 December 2016 - 02:54 PM.

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#27
donrobinson

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Have you tried any edge bending? Looks like a good investment.


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#28
michael mott

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Tony, and Wefalck, thanks for those interesting photographs of traditional work being done with "low tech". All the work that we do in my view is a set of procedures that we learn from successes and failures, we continue to use and improve those that work and generally discard those that don't. The ones that work are also subjected to our human inventiveness and we look for ways to assist those methods that work. Sometimes a happy accident leads to a whole new way of accomplishing a task.

 

It is with this mindset that I am willing to try out new or different ways of getting to that success mentioned earlier, this often comes as a result of a simple question "what if?"

 

This whole thread was the result of Druxey's question to Wefalck "This sounds like a very versatile tool, Wefalck! At low setting, have you used it for bending wood?" and his Answer "No, had no need (yet)"

 

Having made a steam box to bend small pieces of wood and also watched Chuck's planking video where he bends a small piece of wood with a regular hair drier type hot air gun, I thought it would be worth following up on Druxey's question, will I use this for all my heat bending in the future probably not but i will definitely use it for quite a few time that I need to bend a small piece of wood.

 

Don I have not tried to edge bend yet I suspect that it will work well enough the key it my view is to ensure that the wood stays flat as the bending is done, perhaps another form of jig needs to be devised which can be as simple as small wooden clamps set to prevent the the tendency for the wood to want to rotate to bend in the thin direction.

 

Michael


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Current builds  Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8

 

                                Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8

 

                               Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8

 

Other projects  Pilot Cutter 1:500

 

                         Maria, Sloop 1:2

 

Restoration      A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100

 

Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.


#29
tkay11

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Mapping pins or drawing pins with an edge worked quite well for me when keeping wood flat whilst bending.

 

Tony


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===
First build: Caldercraft HM Cutter Sherbourne 1763 FINISHED

2nd and current build: Triton cross-section


#30
mtaylor

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I use clamps to hold the wood in an arc for edge bending and a hot air gun to supply the heat.  I've found that if the wood gets hot enough (wihout scorching, it will hold the curve when cool.  If I didn't get it right the first time, a quick dip in the water bucket and back on the jig and apply the heat gun again.  


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Mark

"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me


Current Build:

Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0

Past Builds:
Triton Cross-Section
USS Constellaton (kit bashed to 1854 Sloop of War (Gallery) Build Log
Wasa (Gallery)


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#31
pompey2

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After reading this thread, which certainly got my attention I went in search for a hot air re-solder station as described.

I was amazed how cheap they are, I opted for a reevla station which is a knock off of a better unit but seemed to have pretty good feedback.

It was only £26 ($40 ish) including delivery so a pretty low risk if it proved rubbish.

 

It arrived yesterday (late xmas list item) so I spend some time last night having a play.

 

I must first say how impressed I was with the functionality and even the build (given the price).

Much like Michael's it has a dial for wind speed :) and a digital readout with up and down buttons for temperature.

It has a sensor in the handle such that when you replace the tool in its cradle it switches to cold air.

That ensures it does not continue to blow hot and shorten element life, be a risk etc.

When you pick it back up it reverts to your last selected temperature and gets there in just moments.

You should wait till lower than 100C before turning it off but that was about 15 seconds.

Because the heat is so localised it is pretty safe, you can hold a piece of timber 1/2" or so away from the nozzle quite easily.

It's very low noise because of the low volume fan.

So I'm pleased with the tool itself.

 

I ran a few simple trials with some 1/8 x 1/4 maple strips.

A bit early to draw conclusions.

The advise is to use highest flow rate with minimum temperature to prolong element life, so I started low and gradually wound up the temperature.

Below 250C the effects were minimal.

At about 300C the wood was pliable enough to hand bend, I managed to break a few bits by being too keen.

My trials seemed to have a fair amount of spring back, up to half of the bend sometimes.

I think more trials, probably higher temp and better technique might help there.

One problem I did find was the speed of handling required.

You can raise the wood temperature locally and quickly but once the heat is off it cools very quickly.

I need to try with the wood already under strain maybe.

 

More trials required but I must say it looks promising.

Many thanks to Michael for the pointer.

 

Nick.


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Current build USF Confederacy - http://modelshipworl...ways-scale-164/

Previous log - HMS Victory - http://modelshipworl...raft-172/page-1

 

 


#32
Nirvana

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There are several versions of this machine available at Amazon USa, the ones I saw have received good reviews.

Would I buy one at the price of USD 50 or more?

I doubt it, the usage of a 1500 watt hairdryer with custom-made nozzle do a lot of bending, but keep your fingers away from the air, it's burning hot.

The downside, only three setting for the heat, and the lowest can do some scorching harm........ and the noise!


Edited by Nirvana, 07 January 2017 - 07:21 AM.

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Respectfully

 

Per aka Dr. Per

 

Ship modeling is a long lesson in patience - Me

It's better to get something done later than never

 

Denial is futile, MSW is here to stay.

 

 Therapy for Shipaholics

 

Finished: T37, BB Marie Jeanne - located on a shelf in Sweden

Current: America by Constructo, Harley almost a Harvey , 18th Century Longboat, Solö Ruff

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#33
pompey2

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I have been using the tool now for a little while and moved from trials to real planking.

And I have found a few more things that I really like.

First don't try to hold the tool by hand, in the short time it takes to holster the tool before two hands are available to bend, the part has cooled too far to be effective.

So I rigged a simple stand to hold the tool and use both hands to bend as I apply heat.

Then the quick cool down helps.

Once you have the bend you want, move it out of the flow, hold for a few seconds and the bend is set.

The other thing is that you can bend, fit, bend, fit, bend fit as many times as you like.

So you can slowly achieve the bend amount, position, twist etc. as you go.

I believe that's easier than than soaking, clamping and having to do an amount of forcing into place, especially with spring back.

So I think I will be sticking with this method for a while

 

Nick


Edited by pompey2, 09 January 2017 - 01:24 PM.

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Current build USF Confederacy - http://modelshipworl...ways-scale-164/

Previous log - HMS Victory - http://modelshipworl...raft-172/page-1

 

 


#34
donrobinson

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I have found that when using a hair dryer to bend planks that if I use dry wood there seems to be a lot of spring back. If I soak it even for a minute or two then apply the heat it holds the bend much better and there is little or no spring back. Might be worth a try


Edited by donrobinson, 09 January 2017 - 01:59 PM.

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#35
zoly99sask

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I have found that when using a hair dryer to bend planks that if I use dry wood there seems to be a lot of spring back. If I soak it even for a minute or two then apply the heat it holds the bend much better and there is little or no spring back. Might be worth a try

Don, I experienced the same thing.


Edited by zoly99sask, 09 January 2017 - 04:10 PM.

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