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Uneven stain Min WAx


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22 replies to this topic

#1
donfarr

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Hi All, Have come across a big problem for me, I am trying to stain a hull using Min Wax special walnut, the wood is some kind of plywood, had   to use a filler to close gaps used a 3M wood filler clear stainable, I have put on 4coats of Min Wax pre stain wood conditioner THE STAIN TURNED OUT HORIBLE uneven and splotchy, I have had this problem with other projects using Min WAX penetrating stains, what can I do at this stage, do not want to paint it unless it becomes absolutly necessary, any help woul be greatly appreciated. THANKS IN ADVANCE Don


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#2
robnbill

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Don,

With no photos I am assuming the blotchiness was not just over the filled areas. There are a couple of approaches. Since it is already botchy, you will need to sand that back as much as possible. Sand to a fine grain, then try applying dewaxed shellac to the hull as a sealer. Once that is dried reapply the stain. If that is still proving to be blotchy you could wait until it is dry then use a brush to apply additional stain where it is lighter let it soak in a bit then wipe it off. You would need to continue to do this until the stain is even. This is a pain to do. The optimum would be if you could sand the stain down and use the shellac.

Good luck.
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Bill

Chantilly, VA

 

Current Build: Scratch Build Brig Eagle

 

Completed Build Log: USS Constitution - Mamoli

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#3
donfarr

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Thanks Robin do you know where I can get dewaxed shellac, the hull of the model is not stained just at the transome, I tried this first to see how it came out do I still use the dewaxed shellack. THANKS FOR THE BIG HELP Don


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#4
robnbill

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I am not sure where you live. Here Lowes or Home Depot carry it. You can also get shellac flakes from woodworking stores like Rockler. This can be thinned with alcohol. However since you are just looking to seal, that supplied by your local hardware store should suffice.

Edited by robnbill, 29 November 2016 - 06:27 PM.

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Bill

Chantilly, VA

 

Current Build: Scratch Build Brig Eagle

 

Completed Build Log: USS Constitution - Mamoli

Completed Build Gallery: USS Constitution - Mamoli

 


#5
donfarr

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Thanks Robin, I live in KS, USA will be going to Lowes this friday will look for it. THANKS AGAIN Don


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#6
Denis R

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Hi Don

 

Like Robin said it is more than the filler.

It also may be the glue that is still on the wood, no stain will penetrate glue.

With out photos people cannot tell what you are talking about.

If it is glue have you tried to dissolve it with Acetone to remove most of it off, let that dry, then sand it down.

 

If you are going to fill any wood like hard wood, I always get a scrap bit of the same wood, put a drop of water on the scrap wood then mix coloured wood fillers together to get the same colour as the wet scrap wood.

 

Sorry just read what you said again, are you sure it is ply wood and not base wood or lime wood.

Is so they are soft type of woods and will suck up stain before you know it, so it sounds to me like you started to stain the wood went back to reload your cloth and went over the stain you just put on, this will give you a double layer of stain where you over lapped making it darker.

 

Sorry I cannot add anymore than that.

 

 

Denis.


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#7
Brian the extraordinaire

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agree with Denis's comment about the glue. If you used white carpenters wood glue, it dries clear and if not completely sanded off will be painfully obvious when staining. 


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#8
donfarr

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Thanks Guys for the help, Robin I got the Shellack it is Zinsser BULLS EYE  can says CLEAR is this DEWAXED SHEELLAC, and yes it is some sort of plywood, and I do Have some glue that needs to be removed, I think I got it all off but will give it another sanding, also questions about Min-Wax penetrating stains there seems to be a lack of color when I apply the stain did some on a piece of Oak and I used the Min-Wax wood conditoner, what am I doing wrong. THANKS AGAI FOR HELP Don


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#9
donfarr

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Hi Again Robin, I forgot to ask also weather to use the schellack on the areas with no stain, but has a couple of coats of Min-Wax wood conditner. THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE FOR THE HELP Don


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#10
robnbill

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Don, my best advice is to lightly sand those areas where you added the conditioner then paint it all with the shellac.
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Bill

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Current Build: Scratch Build Brig Eagle

 

Completed Build Log: USS Constitution - Mamoli

Completed Build Gallery: USS Constitution - Mamoli

 


#11
donfarr

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THANKS AGAIN ROBIN, will do, will let yoy know hoe it turns out. THANKS AGAIN Don


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#12
bogeygolpher

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Don,

 

I have had much much more success using gel stains rather than penetrating stains.    The gel stain is more of a surface stain, almost like painting, allowing you a great deal of flexibility for touching up specific areas when applying it. 

 

PROWE


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PROWE

 

If someone says something can't be done, it only means they can't do it.

 

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MS 18th Century Longboat

 

Completed Builds:

 

Ships; AL Bluenose II 1989, Corel Toulonnaise 1995, Corel Flying Fish 2000, AL Scottish Maid 2005,

Sergal President 2010, Mamoli Beagle 2011, Corel Eagle 2013, Mamoli Constitution Cross-section 2014, Victory Cross-section 1/98 by Corel 2015

 

Card Models

Disney Nautilus 2010, Modelik PzKpfw IV Ausf.G 2013, Christmas Train by PaperReplika 2012, Canon Special Vehicle Series (Construction) 2013

Yamaha DSC11 Motorcycle 2013, Wrebbit Mercedes-Benz 500K Roadster 2014, Canon EOS 5D Mark II  2014,  WWII Tiger I Tank by Paper-Replika 2014,

Central Pacific no. 60 Jupiter card model 2015

 

 

#13
donfarr

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THANKS Prowe, Does Min-Wax make the gel stains. Don


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#14
bogeygolpher

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http://www.minwax.co...inwax-gel-stain

 

I get mine at my local Lowes Home Improvement store where it is right beside the penetrating stains.


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PROWE

 

If someone says something can't be done, it only means they can't do it.

 

Building:

 

MS 18th Century Longboat

 

Completed Builds:

 

Ships; AL Bluenose II 1989, Corel Toulonnaise 1995, Corel Flying Fish 2000, AL Scottish Maid 2005,

Sergal President 2010, Mamoli Beagle 2011, Corel Eagle 2013, Mamoli Constitution Cross-section 2014, Victory Cross-section 1/98 by Corel 2015

 

Card Models

Disney Nautilus 2010, Modelik PzKpfw IV Ausf.G 2013, Christmas Train by PaperReplika 2012, Canon Special Vehicle Series (Construction) 2013

Yamaha DSC11 Motorcycle 2013, Wrebbit Mercedes-Benz 500K Roadster 2014, Canon EOS 5D Mark II  2014,  WWII Tiger I Tank by Paper-Replika 2014,

Central Pacific no. 60 Jupiter card model 2015

 

 

#15
donfarr

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THANKS AGAIN GUYS> Don


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#16
donfarr

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Hi Guys, Still trying to figure out my staining, went to lowes, and asked the gentlemen in the paint department for Min-Wax Gel Stain, he said that the Min-Wax WIPING STAIN multi surface was the Gel Stain, it is in a black and yellow can, only Quart size, is this correct, if not may have to look elsewhere, WILL NOT USE IT until some one tells me it is OK. AGAIN THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP Don


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#17
bogeygolpher

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http://www.minwax.co...inwax-gel-stain

 

This is what you are looking for.


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PROWE

 

If someone says something can't be done, it only means they can't do it.

 

Building:

 

MS 18th Century Longboat

 

Completed Builds:

 

Ships; AL Bluenose II 1989, Corel Toulonnaise 1995, Corel Flying Fish 2000, AL Scottish Maid 2005,

Sergal President 2010, Mamoli Beagle 2011, Corel Eagle 2013, Mamoli Constitution Cross-section 2014, Victory Cross-section 1/98 by Corel 2015

 

Card Models

Disney Nautilus 2010, Modelik PzKpfw IV Ausf.G 2013, Christmas Train by PaperReplika 2012, Canon Special Vehicle Series (Construction) 2013

Yamaha DSC11 Motorcycle 2013, Wrebbit Mercedes-Benz 500K Roadster 2014, Canon EOS 5D Mark II  2014,  WWII Tiger I Tank by Paper-Replika 2014,

Central Pacific no. 60 Jupiter card model 2015

 

 

#18
Canute

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Might try a Home Depot, Don. The "help" are better trained and usually have actually used the product you need.


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Ken

 

Started: MS Bounty Longboat,

On Hold:  Heinkel USS Choctaw paper

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Scratchbuild: Echo Cross Section

 

Member Nautical Research Guild


#19
Julie Mo

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Sorry for coming late but I just saw this.  Some things...

 

Zinsser Bulls Eye is not dewaxed shellac.  Zinsser Seal Coat is what you want for sealing wood.  The problem with applying shellac that is not dewaxed is the next coating applied over the shellac will not adhere properly.  Dewaxed shellac is used to seal wood, act as a bonding agent between coats that would not normally adhere to one another, or in the process of French polishing, where pumice is used in conjunction with the shellac to fill the pores.  

 

The possible reasons for the blotchy effect are many.  It could have been caused by applying the stain on poor quality plywood.  The veneer on plywood today can be as thin as 1/100th of an inch.  Better quality plywood has a top veneer of about 1/40 of an inch.  The shallow depth and poor manufacturing practices can cause the glue to seep into the upper layer of the veneer.  That same shallow depth also makes it hard to create any appearance of depth after applying stain or dye.

 

But you also said you used a wood filler and four coats of conditioner.  The filler will absorb stain differently than the plywood veneer.  It's impossible to prevent that.  So filler should only be used very sparingly when planning to stain and/or varnish wood surfaces.  It's better to use wood dust from sanding to fill larger voids, but that can be tricky, too.

 

The four coats of conditioner could also be the problem.  Each coat is absorbed differently depending on the qualities of the wood to which it's being applied.  Each successive coat magnifies the differences in grain absorption.  Applying multiple coats could have sealed the wood, making stain absorption almost impossible.  Stain has larger molecules and does not absorb as thoroughly or deeply as dye. 

 

Now, on to how to fix this...

 

I have tried to sand out lacquer and dye applied to solid maple.  I easily sanded off more than the thickness of the veneer found on even the best quality plywood.  When I applied dye over what I thought was a clean surface, the dye would not absorb like it did on virgin wood.  I had to touch up the areas using an artist's brush to get the coverage to look even and still could not achieve what I usually do on virgin wood.  Lesson learned is once the stain or dye has been applied, you forever change the character of the wood.  This is especially true with plywood.

 

This is not to say all is lost but it will most likely be difficult to achieve the same result as applying color or finish to virgin wood.  Instead of using stain, maybe switching to dye would be the better way to go.  You can pick up dye at any Woodcraft or do a web search for "wood dye" or "aniline dye".  If you choose to stick with stain, try diluting the stain to achieve different tones and using that to touch up the blotches.  Most likely some of the wood is sealed so the touch ups might have to lie on the surface. 

 

If the veneer is very thin, be careful sanding or you might sand right through.  You could use a solvent to remove the stain and conditioner but that will probably mean some of the color tone will be sealed in with the diluted conditioner left behind.  But that might look better than it presently does.  If you have any scraps, experiment with them to see what works best.

 

I'm sorry for the smattering of information but without seeing pictures I am throwing everything against the wall in the hope something will stick.  If you can, take some pictures and post them.  This would help immensely.


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#20
donfarr

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Thanks Julie will reorder what you sugest,. THANKS FOR HELP Don


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