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Triton cross section by Anguirel -1:48


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45 replies to this topic

#1
Anguirel

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Hi all,

I have been following many off the logs for years now. I have built two ships and I'm half way through the Santissima Trinidad (kits) but I was always amazed with the models on the scratch build section... i finally mustered the courage to try one myself. The Triton cross section seemed the perfect candidate, not too big, not too small. And the Group Project give the necessary support to new people like me.I ordered the wood from the wood list in the first post and I started as soon as it arrived. I have the three peices from the first drawing ready and now request access to the rest of the plans.

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A side not about the woods I'm using. Like I said I order the wood list from the topic's first post. I contacted two online stores and gave them the wood list. One of the stores said they didn't had some of the wood types I was requesting so I ordered the all lot in boxwood. This was the store that replied first. One day after paying I got the answer from the second store. They had all the wood types I wanted for a bit more them the first. Since I wanted to test different wood as well I proceeded with the second order. The problem was when the wood arrived. From the first store (just boxwood) the wood arrived like this:
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All strips of wood in individual labeled bags. The wood from the second store arrived like this:
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No labels with sizes or wood type which made it very difficult since I don't recognise the woods.
One other difference was the finishing the wood from the second store they weren't sanded
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The biggest problem is that some the wood from the second store is not squared
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The keel (in the image) was one of the strips that was not squared.

My question is: is this normal? Or this is something I should complain? Specially the not square thing, which just adds another level of complication...

Thanks in advance,
Anguirel

Edited by Anguirel, 12 December 2016 - 05:48 AM.

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#2
tkay11

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Great to see another Triton builder!

 

I think the way the wood is sold depends on the supplier. If it's a timber merchant they often ask whether you want the wood planed or not. It looks as though your supplier expects you to plane or re-saw your own wood. Some merchants specialise in small cuts for modellers and generally they will let you have an exact specification.

 

I don't know what country you're from, but if it's the USA then there are loads of specialist hobby timber suppliers that others on this forum will tell you about.

 

Tony


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===
First build: Caldercraft HM Cutter Sherbourne 1763 FINISHED

2nd and current build: Triton cross-section


#3
mtaylor

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If the second supplier is who I think it is, he believes we modelers wish to "finish" the wood to our own specs (sanding, final dimensions) using our own tools.  He does do good work on the finishing (dimensions and sanding) if requested when the order is placed.   

 

Anyway, welcome to MSW and the Triton.  It's a great project.


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Mark

"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me


Current Build:

Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0

Past Builds:
Triton Cross-Section
USS Constellaton (kit bashed to 1854 Sloop of War (Gallery) Build Log
Wasa (Gallery)


Member of the Nautical Research Guild


#4
Anguirel

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Hi,

 

Thanks tkay11 and mtaylor.

 

I'm living in the US, I did't want to name names in case it was something due to ignorance on my part, which seems to be the case. Next time I will ask for the wood to be cut at exact dimensions and sanded. 

 

Thanks


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#5
Pete38

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Welcome to the build, Nice start, looking forward to more


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Triton Cross Section 1:32

 

SEE YA LATER

 

im-outta-here-bye-bye-smiley-emoticon.gi

 


#6
ChadB

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I had the same exact issues nearly 8 years ago with whom I suspect is the second seller and ended up reordering from the forefather of your first seller when I built my cross section. I preferred paying the premium for the first seller from thereon out. It's ridiculous to assume that someone ordering milled lumber wouldn't mind something as rudimentary as squared pieces, but that's my opinion. Looks like a good start!


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#7
Anguirel

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Thanks for all the welcomes and likes.
ChadB I don't mind the lack of sanding although the not squared this is too much for me. If I had the proper tools to do that I wouldn't need to order milled lumbe. But if this is done by conviction and not by incompetence and if it's a more or less well know fact in the community I'm ok with it. Next time I will be more specific on how I want my order or go to a different place.
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#8
Mike Y

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Anguriel, I had the same problem with the supplier you do not want to name (why? People should know...)
And I had 12kg of it! :)
Ended up buying all wood from another supplier, and stashing the rough wood until I got the thickness planer ;)
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#9
Dubz

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I have an unused thickness planner Mike send it to me ... haha ..joking :P

 

Dirk


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Member of the NRG
On build: HMC Sherbourne, USS Syren, Maria HF.31 Fishing Ewer, USS Confederacy
Next on list: Dutch Gunboat No5

Done: Revenue Cutter Alert

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#10
Mike Y

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Dirk, with your quality requirements - most of that wood will not pass your picky QC even after planing and sanding ;)


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#11
Anguirel

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Hi,

Today I finally had a few moments to try the frames. I've been doing some research on the frame joints... and I found an answer in Peter Goodwin's book. All joints were made with chocks except the joint between the 3rd and 4th futtocks and the respective top timbers that was made with a plain scarph.

Here's how mine are coming along (sorry about the quality of the picture it was taken with the kids sleeping and with the iPad)
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There is only one thing I could not find: a formula for the dimensions of the chocks. I found the dimensions for some chocks for the Victory and extrapolated a formula. Chock width: 3 times the thickness of the frame and chock height: 3/4 of the frame height. Is this a good approximation? Does anyone found and actual formula?

One other question: are the frame joints (and the connection of the double frames) supposed to be caulked?

Hope that tomorrow I will be able to finnish preparing frame 0
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#12
Anguirel

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Finished what I could with is first try.

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On this pair the left side scarph is broken. I first try to do it with a carving knife but when doing the flat part of the scarph the corner of the edge broke. The others were done with the mill. I guess I have to make a jig because even with the mill the angle of some of the flat parts scarph are wrong so the top timber doesn't align with the plans.

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For the second pair the floor futtock is wrong. For some reason the right side of the floor is lower them the left one.

I'm still using this pair to train the chocks.

I've faired the frames to the inside of the line which I was already advised against...

So after trying the chocks is back to doing a new pair.

Thanks.
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#13
tkay11

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I really enjoy build logs like this where every step, including problems, is shown.

 

Thanks very much.

 

Tony


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===
First build: Caldercraft HM Cutter Sherbourne 1763 FINISHED

2nd and current build: Triton cross-section


#14
AnobiumPunctatum

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Anguriel,

 

looks really good. I think it is very helpful to let a little bit more timber on both sides of the frame. So you can sand the whole section in one step and egalize small differences without makeing the frames to small durig this step.


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Regards Christian
 

In the shipyard: HM Sloop Fly, 1776 - Scale 1/32;

On the drawing board: Naval Cutter Rattlesnake, 1777 - Scale 1/32


#15
Anguirel

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Hi,

Thanks for the comments and likes. Leaving a bit of wood on the sides seems logic in order to have an uniform surface after assembly. My question in this case is if I'm using treenails or copper wire to simulate nails fastening for the futtock and chocks, since these will be on the inside should I do them after assembly and fairing?

Thanks
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#16
AnobiumPunctatum

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I normaly use treenails. I put them in before installing the frames. I am not sure if brass or copper wire will work in the same way. But it's easy to test. Cut one futtock a little bit oversized. Put it some wire and treenails and sand them to the correct size. So you will see if your idea┬┤and material work as exspected.


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Regards Christian
 

In the shipyard: HM Sloop Fly, 1776 - Scale 1/32;

On the drawing board: Naval Cutter Rattlesnake, 1777 - Scale 1/32


#17
amateur

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I'm following with interest.
Still contemplating my possibilities is such a model
(Although greatly hindered by lack of space, and lack of powertools, not to mention time.....)

Jan
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#18
ChadB

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Anguriel,

 

looks really good. I think it is very helpful to let a little bit more timber on both sides of the frame. So you can sand the whole section in one step and egalize small differences without makeing the frames to small durig this step.

This is very good advice. You don't need to leave a lot, but I try to leave enough that when I lay the frame on the plan it completely covers the outline of the frame (if that makes sense). Fairing is the worst, but it's better than having to redo a bunch of frames.You can treenail now since you won't be leaving so much extra meat that they will be off kilter at the end.  -Chad


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#19
Anguirel

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Hi,

After a brief pause to make a Christmas present I'm back on the Triton. I has planing on doing the frames with chocks but I can't find dimensions anywhere. I've looked in Goodwin and The Fully Framed Model volume one and although in the first there is a detailed description of the futtock there is nothing on the chocks. On the TFFM there is a detail description on how to make the chocks but they are in the planes so there is no information on there dimensions. I looked in all logs of the cross section here at the Forum (as well as the full build) and no one used chocks in there respective builds. Iwas going through the full build planes and I did find one sheet titled "Chocks @48:1" is this where the dimensions of the chocks are? Are they all the same size independent of the size of the frame? And are the planes only showing half the chocks?

Thanks
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#20
Anguirel

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Hi

Found some information on the TFFM and decided to take the plunge. Used Kevin Kenny's idea and build a gig with the different sizes of the chocks and the futtock

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The floor futtocks are glued to the boxwood and ready to cut...

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Time is limited let's see if I can finish them today.

Thanks
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