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location of stud sails (stuns'l) when stowed


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20 replies to this topic

#1
timboat

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Where would the stuns'ls be stowed on a 6th rate man o war from the early 18th century?  I would also assume this includes the yard as the sails would be kept bent to them.  I'm going to guess the lower sails were secured somewhere near the fore and main channels along with the stuns'ls lower booms and the upper stuns'ls were secured somewhere on deck or maybe even secured on the fore and main course yards.

 

This is for my 3d ship I'm currently working on...

 

arma3%202016-12-08%2021-21-21-62.png


Edited by timboat, 24 December 2016 - 07:31 PM.

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#2
mtaylor

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I believe the booms/stunsail yards would have been left fixed to the yards, for the most part.  I have seen some plans where the yards were raised with the sails, however.   Sails probably would have been stored in the sail locker after being dried as they were only used in light airs.  The locker would keep them out of the weather.

 

If the booms came down, then probably either stowed with spare masts or in the hold.  

 

The issues for sorting this out would be time period, country, and ship design/build. 


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Mark

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#3
timboat

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So do you think they unbent the sails from the stunsls yards and stowed them below?  I can see the lower stunsls sails being stowed somewhere else than the lower booms since they're so close to the water, but do you think it's probable that some would leave the stunsls topsails bent to the yard, furled them and secured them to the course yards?


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#4
mtaylor

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Good questions for which I have no hard, fast answers.   I do think the sails would have been unbent so the yards could either be retracted or lowered, though.  I do believe the sails were stowed separately, however.

 

I hope someone with more knowledge jumps in.  


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Mark

"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me


Current Build:

Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0

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Wasa (Gallery)


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#5
neptune

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G'day Tim, I think Mark is right, the sails would have been attached as and when needed, seeing as how the yards were run out through the holding ring on the end of the yard and also retracted back through the ring when not in use and lashed, I'm not totally sure but imagine that when the stun sail yard was being run out they would have attached or bent the stun sail to it and of course unbent when retracting, the stun sail yards when in the stowed position were lashed to the yard they were attached to, the lashing being taken round the inboard end of the yard, the booms for the main yard were attached to and pivoted out from the fore end of the main channel, I believe the fore stun sail booms were attached to an eye bolt just forward of the fore channel and I assume were stowed along with the ships boats on the beams in the waist,

 

  best regards John.


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#6
mtaylor

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Tim,

 

I don't know if these will help.  I got pointed to them by another member who remembered them...    

 

http://modelshipworl...stunsl-boom-do/

http://modelshipworl...nsl-when-stowed

http://modelshipworl...booms-attached/


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Mark

"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me


Current Build:

Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0

Past Builds:
Triton Cross-Section
USS Constellaton (kit bashed to 1854 Sloop of War (Gallery) Build Log
Wasa (Gallery)


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#7
jbshan

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Looking through my library, the sails had their own little yard to which they were set, and which assembly was hoisted to the booms/yards that were kept retracted on the yards.  The booms were got out into position, then the sails/jack yards were hoisted into position and set above and below.  The lower yards pivoted out from the channels and were guyed into position.  There is a lot of loose gear floating around until everything is in position and belayed, but these weren't set except in fairly benign conditions.

There were of course probably many variations.


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#8
timboat

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Hey guys, thanks for all of the input.  I really appreciate ya'll knowledge.  I've learned quite a bit.  I'm afraid though I didn't do a good job asking my question.  To rephrase, where were the sails for the top and lower stunsl's stowed when not in use?  Were they kept bent to the yards?

 

I'm getting the impression the sails were unbent from the yards and stowed down below and the yards were secured to their respective boom.  In the event they wish to set the stunsl's, they brought the sails up to the deck and brought down the yards to bend them accordingly, then hauled them up.


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#9
jud

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From what I am seeing on the first reference Mark has on his list, the stun sails were never bent onto the yard stun sail extensions, they were bent onto their own short yard which was hauled up to the stun sail yard extensions with two lines through blocks and hung a little lower than the yards. I wound expect to see a dedicated block on the end of the yard and another at the end of the extension and used to hoist the surn sails into position, each with their own light free hanging yard. Storage, I would expect that after drying, the stun sails were wrapped around their own yard, secured into the wrapped configuration and struck below as a unit.

jud


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#10
jbshan

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Yes, Jud.  The stuns'ls were bent to their own little yard with which they were hoisted as a bundle into position to be spread by assorted tackle.  No doubt they were stowed below somewhere when not needed.

Lever and Harland have some good illustrations showing the process.


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#11
robnbill

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On the Connie the lower stunsail booms were attached to a hinge/pivot point on the forward end of the Channels. There were two per side on my plans. I believe these booms were also used in handling boats.
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#12
trippwj

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The attached from Lever (1853) and Biddlecombe (1848) may be of some use for you.  Based on what I have seen, studding sails would be kept below deck in the sail locker and brought out when needed - much like many of the stay sails &c. which were only bent when needed. 

 

Lever, Darcy. 1853. The Young Sea Officer’s Sheet Anchor; Or, A Key to the Leading of Rigging, and to Practical Seamanship (American Edition). E. & G.W. Blunt. https://books.google...id=HmJJAAAAYAAJ.

 

Attached File  Pages from 1853 The_Young_Sea_Officer_s_Sheet_Anchor_LEVER.pdf   364.66KB   11 downloads

 

Biddlecombe, George. 1848. The Art of Rigging. http://books.google....id=9RkEAAAAQAAJ.

 

Attached File  Pages from 1848 The_art_of_rigging_Biddlecombe.pdf   136.59KB   15 downloads

 

Biddlecombe plate 12a.jpg

 

Biddlecombe plate 12.jpg

 

 

Also, the following from Steel, David. 1796. The Art of Rigging. David Steel. https://books.google...nnAEACAAJ&hl=en.

 

Attached File  Pages from 1796 TheArtofRigging_Steel.pdf   90.09KB   13 downloads

 

rigging2_Art of rigging.jpg

 

Attached File  Plate II from 1796 TheArtofRigging_Steel.pdf   59.15KB   7 downloads

 


Edited by trippwj, 26 December 2016 - 07:03 PM.

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Wayne

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#13
trippwj

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A couple of more describing setting the studding sails.

 

From Bushell, Charles. 1856. The Rigger’s Guide. http://archive.org/d...gb_FF8BAAAAQAAJ.

 

Attached File  Pages from 1856 The_Rigger_s_Guide_and_Seaman_s_Assistant_Bushell.pdf   74.09KB   17 downloads

 

Also, Martelli, Charles. 1838. The Naval Officer’s Guide for Preparing Ships for Sea ... Second Edition. Richard Bentley. https://books.google...id=0LJWAAAAcAAJ.

 

Attached File  Pages from 1838 The_naval_officer_s_guide_for_preparing_martelli.pdf   100.13KB   15 downloads


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Wayne

Neither should a ship rely on one small anchor, nor should life rest on a single hope.
Epictetus


#14
timboat

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Thanks so much for the information.  I especially like the old books.  So much knowledge and history.

 

So it seems there is a general agreement the stunsl sails were kept bent to their respective yards and stored below, probably in the sail room.  Awesome, this is what I needed to know.


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#15
timboat

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Does anyone know where I can find a pdf of the rigging of a ship from 1719?  Maybe even "Seventeenth Century Ship Rigging" by Anderson?  Thanks.


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#16
Captain Poison

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Your best option by R.C.Anderson

https://www.amazon.c...e/dp/048627960X


Edited by Captain Poison, 29 December 2016 - 02:28 AM.

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#17
trippwj

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Anderson is still copyright protected with no "legal" pdf versions found. It can be purchased from Amazon and others either as a print or ereader version quite inexpensively. Also look into the original version The Rigging of Ships: in the Days of the Spritsail Topmast, 1600-1720

 

Could you describe the 1719 document better (or is that a time frame of interest?) I have a few that give some information around that time frame, but none specific to the 1719 Establishment (which, as I recall, just dealt with the desired principle dimensions).


Edited by trippwj, 29 December 2016 - 11:28 AM.

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Wayne

Neither should a ship rely on one small anchor, nor should life rest on a single hope.
Epictetus


#18
davyboy

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Hi Timboat,

 

Andersons' 17th Century Rigging is IMO somewhat better than his Rigging of Ships in the days of the Spritsail Topmast. Larger line drawings and a foldout rigging plan of the St George 96 guns of 1701.

 

Lees' Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War has a belaying plan for a 20 gun ship of circa 1719 in section 4. Also has 2 pages of text appertaining to this plan.

 

 

May be of some help to you.

 

Dave  :dancetl6:


Edited by davyboy, 29 December 2016 - 05:56 PM.

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#19
timboat

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I guess I meant 6th rate ships from the early 18th century.  Thanks for the suggestions guys.


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#20
timboat

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I got Lees' Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War which is $70 well spent.  But it brings me back to a concept I just can understand.

 

I'm rigging my 3d model ship and it seems regardless of how hard I try or any book I can find some lines rub up against the wood inside of lubber's hole of the fighting platform.  It also tangles inside of the shrouds.  Was it ok if the lines rub up against wood as long as it was at a shallow angle?

 

lines%20on%20wood.jpg

 

Also would there have been a piece of wood like a bee block or something that the lines rubbed on inside of the shrouds?






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