Jump to content

Welcome to Model Ship World
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

"Gunnery notes" from William Rivers (*1755, †1817)


  • Please log in to reply
8 replies to this topic

#1
dafi

dafi
  • Members
  • 1,850 posts
  • LocationLudwigsburg Germany

As already mentioned in my build, I am looking for the sketch-/notebook from Mr. Rivers. He was gunner on the Vic from 1790 to 1812 and excerpts from this book have been already published in some literature.

 

 

                                          #911                         

 

                                          #917                         

 

 

I am looking for this source out of the Royal Naval Museum: William Rivers (1755-1817), gunner on HMS Victory: gunnery notes (Acc 1998/41)

 

Does anybody have any copies of that or know how to access it?
 
XXXDAn

Edited by dafi, 01 January 2017 - 11:53 AM.

  • mtaylor and Canute like this

To victory and beyond! http://modelshipworl...ory-and-beyond/

 

By the Deep 17 http://modelshipworl...-display/page-4

 

SMS Trinkstein http://modelshipworl...navy/#entry3314

 

See also our german forum for Sailing Ship Modeling and History: http://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/

 

 

Finest etch parts for HMS Victory 1:100 (Heller Kit) and other useful bits.

http://dafinismus.de/index_en.html

 

Honorary Member of the Tic-Tac-Man-Appreciation-Society


#2
allanyed

allanyed

    Special Contributor

  • SPECIAL CONTRIBUTOR
  • 1,131 posts
  • LocationAve Maria, Florida

Dafi,

 

Your post got me looking into it as it would be a great find.  I saw the 12 page article by Gareth Cole that was very interesting and he uses Rivers' information as part of his article. One of the most interesting charts Cole  gives are the age ranges for gunners on a number of specific ships.   I hope you find the source for River's writing and share.  If I find it, I will be sure to post it.  I sent an email  to the National Archives in the UK asking if was possible to get a copy. To get to the Cole paper, Google gunnery notes from William Rivers cole.pdf   

 

Allan


Edited by allanyed, 01 January 2017 - 12:21 PM.

  • mtaylor, dafi and Canute like this

Current Builds Litchfield (50) 1730, Effie M. Morrissey  

I can explain it to you but I can't comprehend it for you - Ed Koch, former NYC mayor

 


#3
trippwj

trippwj

    Scullery Maid

  • Members
  • 3,492 posts
  • LocationEastport, Maine, USA

The manuscript in question appears to be at the Royal Navy Museum Portsmouth, according to the Cole citation.  I have not yet been able to track it down any further.

 

Cole, Dr Gareth. 2009. “Royal Navy Gunners in the French Revolutionary and Naploeonic Wars.” The Mariner’s Mirror 95 (3): 284–95. doi:10.1080/00253359.2009.10657104.

 

https://ore.exeter.a...ndle/10036/3762

 

Also see the following book by Cole where the Rivers manuscript is again mentioned somewhat prominently.

 

Cole, Gareth. 2012. Arming the Royal Navy, 1793-1815: The Office of Ordnance and the State. London; Brookfield, Vt.: Pickering & Chatto.

 

Of course, i should have clicked your links first - I would have realized you already had the link to the Mariner's Mirror article. 


Edited by trippwj, 01 January 2017 - 01:32 PM.

  • mtaylor, dafi and Canute like this

Wayne

Neither should a ship rely on one small anchor, nor should life rest on a single hope.
Epictetus


#4
dafi

dafi
  • Members
  • 1,850 posts
  • LocationLudwigsburg Germany

These are the sketches so far that made me interested:

 

Rivers_1842.jpg

A carriage from Victory showing unusual bolt arrangments

 

Rivers_1841.jpg

List for the use of case shot

 

both shown in Napoleonic Naval Armament 1792-1815 from Ospry

 

Rivers_1846.jpg

His entry for the positions in the fleet on the way into the battle

 

from Victory First Rate, Eastland & Ballantyne

 

Also of interest are informations about Richard F. Roberts, midshipman on the Vic at Trafalgar, showing the setup of the hammocks.

 

Rivers_1848.jpg

 

Do I read the first 1,5 lines correct? And what are the XXX?

"The Victory had white hammock cloth spread loosely over the XXX and kept that (?) XXXX commenced (?) firing.

 

 

 

XXXDAn


Edited by dafi, 01 January 2017 - 08:32 PM.

  • trippwj, mtaylor and Archi like this

To victory and beyond! http://modelshipworl...ory-and-beyond/

 

By the Deep 17 http://modelshipworl...-display/page-4

 

SMS Trinkstein http://modelshipworl...navy/#entry3314

 

See also our german forum for Sailing Ship Modeling and History: http://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/

 

 

Finest etch parts for HMS Victory 1:100 (Heller Kit) and other useful bits.

http://dafinismus.de/index_en.html

 

Honorary Member of the Tic-Tac-Man-Appreciation-Society


#5
Talos

Talos
  • Members
  • 217 posts

Looks like: "The Victory had white hammock cloth spread loosely over the (others) and kept that (until she) commenced firing." to me.


  • mtaylor and dafi like this

#6
druxey

druxey
  • Members
  • 4,780 posts
  • LocationNiagara on the Lake, Ontario, Canada

until we?


  • dafi likes this

#7
dafi

dafi
  • Members
  • 1,850 posts
  • LocationLudwigsburg Germany

That could very well be as in the book the picture caption describes that the "marines were hiding underneath white hammock cloth until they commenced firing"

 

Thank you.

 

XXXDAn


  • mtaylor and druxey like this

To victory and beyond! http://modelshipworl...ory-and-beyond/

 

By the Deep 17 http://modelshipworl...-display/page-4

 

SMS Trinkstein http://modelshipworl...navy/#entry3314

 

See also our german forum for Sailing Ship Modeling and History: http://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/

 

 

Finest etch parts for HMS Victory 1:100 (Heller Kit) and other useful bits.

http://dafinismus.de/index_en.html

 

Honorary Member of the Tic-Tac-Man-Appreciation-Society


#8
druxey

druxey
  • Members
  • 4,780 posts
  • LocationNiagara on the Lake, Ontario, Canada

That makes sense as the marines' red uniform coats would make very visible targets.


Edited by druxey, 02 January 2017 - 04:23 AM.

  • mtaylor and dafi like this

#9
JerseyCity Frankie

JerseyCity Frankie
  • Members
  • 1,241 posts
I think it says the canvas was "kept wet" until they commenced firing. I think the canvas and hammocks would represent the most likely fire hazard as the guns were constantly spitting fire just under them from fore to aft along the length of the ship. If wetted down they would be less flammable and also denser and thus able to absorb more energy from incoming munitions. There are many recorded instances of the cannon fire starting fires that day.
  • trippwj, mtaylor and druxey like this




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

Welcome GUEST to the Model Ship World Community.
Please LOGIN or REGISTER to use all of our feautures.