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HMS Fly Specs Needed


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39 replies to this topic

#1
JosephHuntley

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Hey guys I came across some line drawings for the HMS fly but they only are of the hull. how do you calculate the masts and bowsprit etc distances. I am really into sloops of war as my favorite tall ship type I am finding out so trying to mess with coming up with a decent set of plans

 

I will draw this at 1:48 Scale which gives me an overall length of 42.5195625" and overall Height to top of mast at 32.54583"

 

but not sure what the actual hull length would be


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#2
trippwj

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There are a couple of modeller's resources here: http://modelshipworl...g-and-sails.phpand here http://modelshipworl...s-and-yards.php to calculate the rigging.  If you are looking for info on the Swan class (1776), see the fantastic book specific to the Swan class by David Antscherl here https://www.seawatch....php?sku=115002

 

Hope this helps!


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Wayne

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Epictetus


#3
allanyed

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I agree with Wayne.  The Fully Framed Model by David Antscherl is the way to go.  Volume four goes into rigging in detail and the supplement that I just received yesterday is a great treatise on sail making using silkspan.   Plans are available from The National Maritime Museum for specific ships and detailed plans that go with the books for the Swan Class sloops are available through the Admiralty Models website.  The books are available from Seawatch Books.

 

Allan


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Current Builds Litchfield (50) 1730, Effie M. Morrissey  

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#4
JosephHuntley

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ok thanks so your saying that basically each class of ships have a basic ratio for the mast sizes etc?

 

I did see those 4 books and read somewhere they were ok but didnt tell much on the actual ship was more on a model build.

 

I spent til 430 this am trying to find plans for swan class even amiralty but wasnt happy with what I could find. I did get some line drawings so will eventually trace them and go from scratch. I did download a ton of books on building, riggin, framing older ships that I still need to read up on. so I am slowly building up my research library


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#5
JosephHuntley

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hehe ok went to links yes yesterday I downloaded all them articles from model ship place and have them all in a nice folder. so beat you to the punch hehehehe


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#6
druxey

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A masting and sparring plan at 1/4" scale (1:48) is available from Admiralty Models - link on the home page here,


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#7
tlevine

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Here is the link for ordering the spar plan.  http://www.admiralty...m/Ordering.html


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Toni


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Current Build:  HMS Atalanta-1775 - 1:48 scale

Completed Build: Longboat by tlevine - 1:48 scale
Gallery:  Hannah http://modelshipworl...bum/186-hannah/


#8
JosephHuntley

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thanks I will probably draw everything from scratch as I have had problems before ordering plans and find that they are usually not worth the high price some places put on them. I am used to modeling aircraft and get complete total plans for no more than 50 bucks. I spent 75 bucks for a set of ship plans and get basic outlines with like 6 frames to me that was a rip off. i have gotten 4 plans from places spent over 200 bucks and get the same BS so i will never buy a set of plans for ships anymore unless I fully see what I get first. I been ripped off so many times by these so called shipyard companies that i wont do it again sight unseen


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#9
JosephHuntley

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here is a list of some of the books I have along with a couple ship modelling ones i got few years back like ship modelling simplified and another one

 

Ship Models: How to build them by Charles G. Davis

Building Model Ships from scratch by Kent Porter

The Arming and Fitting of English Ships of War 1600-1815 (Brian Lavery)

The Construction and Fitting of the English Man of War 1650-1850 (Peter Goodwin)

the structures of english wooden ships: William Sutherlands ship, Circa 1710 by Trevor Kenchington

the framing of seventeenth century men of war in england and other northern european countries by Kroum Nickolaev Batchvarov

many anatomy of the ship books

Rigging Period Ship Models - A Step-By-Step Guide to the Intrica


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#10
tlevine

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Mr. JosephHuntley, I will personally and professionally attest to the high quality of anything related to Admiralty Models.  I would suggest that before you make blanket statements about any company, you do your research first.  In this case, start by looking in the scratch building section at any of the several Swan Class ships.  Then you can peruse the Echo Cross Section Forum.  Read the reviews of the books written by the owners of Admiralty Models, David Antscherl and Greg Herbert.  

 

Finally, Admiralty Models is a sponsor of this site.  The Nautical Research Guild, owner of this site would never have a disreputable "...so called shipyard companies..." as a sponsor.


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Toni


Director Nautical Research Guild

Member Nautical Research and Model Society

 

Current Build:  HMS Atalanta-1775 - 1:48 scale

Completed Build: Longboat by tlevine - 1:48 scale
Gallery:  Hannah http://modelshipworl...bum/186-hannah/


#11
JosephHuntley

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i understand I am just stating my past bad experiences and didn't list the companies as not wanting to trash anyone. but also from a modeller of 35+ years I have gotten world class plans for aircraft at exact scale drawn from factory microfilm (which I have many), with total plans for retractable landing gear, wiring, exact framing, etc for no more than 50 bucks and I cannot see a set of model ship plans with any less details than the aircraft for 175 bucks. sorry but that doesn't add up especially when most so called plans of ships to me are nothing more than a 3 view drawing.

 

that said i wasn't disparaging the quality of admiralty models I just said I will no longer buy sight unseen any plans from anyone due to being ripped off before


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#12
Chuck Seiler

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    18th century warships are not 20th century aircraft.  Somebody somewhere has those detailed, 3D aircraft plans that were developed as part of the design process, no doubt.  A few clicks of the computer ( a bit simplified, of course) and you change the design plans into model plans. 

 

    18th century warships are far more complex and must be hand drawn (at least initially).  Some people have made the effort to take the lines from existing plans and turned them into detailed model plans.  It seems to me that if you want to build a model of a SWAN class sloop of war, you would use the plans and documentation of somebody who has developed detailed plans, written detailed books on the subject.


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Chuck Seiler
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Current Build:
Continental Sloop PROVIDENCE
Continental Gunboat PHILADELPHIA (1/2" Scale Model Shipways Kit)
Colonial Schooner SULTANA (scratch from Model Expo Plans)


On Hold:
Colonial Pinnace VIRGINIA (1607)(scratch)
18th Century Longboat (Model Expo Kit)
 
Completed:
Missouri Riverboat FAR WEST (1876) Scratch
1776 Gunboat PHILADELPHIA (Scratch 1/4 scale-Model Shipways plans)


#13
JosephHuntley

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Like I have said I need to see what the plans look like first before spending the money.

 

from what I have seen from build shots of Admiralty Models they look clean but look like they on standard A4 sheet which would mean I would have to tape them together or whatever which itself causes errors, however I have only seen bits and pieces of their plans of a few parts and not the plan views so I cannot say either way what I think of them just that I don't plan on spending the money sight unseen now does that mean i am saying they are bad? No it just means I wont spend my hard earned money on something sight unseen that I would rather take me the months or whatever to research and draw my own up.

 

and speaking about the differences in aircraft and ships there is no difference. ships of the type we talking has rare amount of data yes, and yes someone has to research and draw them up, however same is with aircraft you need to sort through 10,000 or more pages of microfilm to find the data you need then draw the part correct the errors etc. it takes as long to do that as it would for a ship.

just because it is 20th century vehicle vs 18th century doesn't mean it is less time consuming or tedious.


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#14
Mark P

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Just adding my two penny-worth to the debate re the last post:

 

It may well be as much effort to produce aircraft plans.  But the cost of this time is presumably similar.  The market for model aircraft plans is undoubtedly much larger,  so the producers will sell far more copies,  and can therefore sell them at a much lower cost per set to re-coup the same initial cost for the time spent.

 

I can say that the National Maritime Museum in Greenwich sells copies of its original ship plans,  and these are about £50 - £60 per sheet for the basic draught,  plus any deck plans etc for a bit less,  as the sheets are smaller.  It is quite possible to see these before purchase,  although much smaller than the full size,  which is 1:48 scale.  These are colour scans,  and show all the different coloured inks used in the original draught.

 

They do have all the 'Swan' class vessels mentioned above,  including 'Fly',  which has a beautiful 'as-built' draught,  a work of art in its own right.

 

The 'Swan' class books by David Antscherl are extremely thorough and guide any potential modeller through every single stage of the work.  They are well-written,  and detailed in their information,  with clear,  neatly drawn illustrations.  Even if not building a vessel from this particular class,  they are very useful as an aid to understanding construction at this period.

 

I have no doubt that no-one on this site with any experience of modelling would have anything other than praise for them. 

 

So if you are serious about building a model of 'Fly',  and do not have much experience as yet,  I would advise getting hold of a copy of the rigging volume,  perhaps through a library or modelling club,  to understand the quality of the product.  The plans available are a complement to the books.

 

All the best,

 

Mark P  


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#15
JosephHuntley

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thanks Mark yes I have seen some pages of the books through various sites and have also downloaded some extremely detailed build logs. I also understand experienced ship modellers praise for the company, however i am doing my research proper as that is a lot of money for a set of plans and I also dont want to be taping everything together just to build a model. paper can expand and shrink due to various reasons and I don't want to spend 175 ish bucks for plans i need to tape together and find out lines don't match up etc. my wife is sickly and doesn't work and so that is a lot for me to spend out at one time. wood is a different matter as I have a complete cabinet shop with tons of scrap wood lying around to use.

 

the one thing experienced people here with them haven't done is address my concerns about having the plans as all A4 type paper and having to tape everything together. are the a4ish paper parts sheets i have seen just parts that fully fit on the sheets and the top and profile plans full sheets at scale or what?


Edited by JosephHuntley, 11 January 2017 - 09:46 PM.


#16
druxey

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The Admiralty Models' mast and spar plan is a single, large 24" x 36" sheet - no cobbling together required. They will also refund you if you are dissatisfied and return the plan. The rigging plans (at 1:96 scale) are also large fold-out plans included with Volume IV. 


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#17
JosephHuntley

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thanks but what about the top and profile plans for framing?



#18
Kurt Van Dahm

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The plans the NRG sells for the Galley Washington are 10 sheets of 24" x 36" paper.  The set soon to be released is also 10 sheets of 24" x 36".  This is surely more than the 3 views you mention.

 

Syren Ship Model Co - another sponsor here sells plans on similarly sized paper.   Admiralty Models sells their plan sheets on 24" x 36" sheets - they also provide CAD files that let you print out the individual frames on A4 or 8.5" x 11" paper - that's each frame so they can be printed out as a pattern for the pieces and for a pattern for the glue up.  I think you have misread their information.

 

I know of no ship model plans sold as A4 sheets that need to be taped together - at least from legitimate sources who would be accepted here as advertisers. 

 

Kurt


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#19
JosephHuntley

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thanks Kurt that's the Info I was wanting to here precise info on how their plan sheets are set up.



#20
JosephHuntley

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So then I can assume the A4 sheets I see in the build threads are the sheets each person printed out from the provided cad drawings. that makes sense to me now why i was seeing them. but yes there are some places that I got some stuff from that was on small sheets needing to be taped together. I just now learning which are the more reputable sites






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