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A small "Mythbusters" on glue


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10 replies to this topic

#1
donrobinson

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There have been many discussions and opinions about glues...which one to use... when to use it or not.... which is the strongest..... Many newcomers often ask these questions and I know myself I was told to use one type and have used it ever since. So for my curiosity I thought I would put some of these glues, the ones I have, to test and thought I would share the results with you.

 

 My little test consists of testing CA, Weldbond and Titebond. I applied these to bare walnut strips then to walnut strips that had three coats of wipe on poly. The laminated strips were clamped and left for ten days before I tried to separate them, to separate them I used an X-Acto knife. I inserted the blade in between the pieces and wedged a/o cut the pieces apart.

 

First photo shows the pieces, on the left are the bare wood pieces and on the right are the pieces that have had wipe on poly applied.

 

IMG_1888.jpg

 

 

First was the CA as you can see it splintered some, as far as being hard to separate it was medium I am thinking the splintering was a result of grain pattern more than anything else. The poly treated was was difficult to separate and resulted in lots of splintering.

 

The Titebond on dry wood was very difficult to separate and caused lots of damage. With the poly applied it proved to be very easy to separate and I probably could have used my finger nail to do it.

 

The Weldbond showed no real difference when applied to bare wood or wood with poly on it. Although stronger than Titebond on poly it did not have the adhesion Titebond did on the bare wood. I would say it was slightly stronger than CA on bare wood.

 

IMG_1889.jpg

 

What's my take on all of this?

 

Bare Wood: Titebond, Weldond then CA.....but it really is so close between these two as to which one should be second

 

Wood with Poly: CA(by a landslide), Weldbond and Titebond....

 

So if you are gluing bare wood to bare wood Titebond is by far the way to go and if you are gluing finished surfaces then CA without question is the choice to go with.

 

 This just what I have found out by doing this very UN-scientific  experiment, I am by no means advising you to change the glue you are using now

 


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#2
GemmaJF

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Thanks for that Don. As a complete noob to model ships I picked up Titebond knowing no better. I like using it and the short clamp time and easy clean up are a bonus too. I've mixed memories of CA on flying models, often seemed the joints were on the brittle side to me.


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If it is not a challenge, it is just a chore...


#3
Chuck Seiler

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I like TITEBOND on bare wood myself.  For most things other than bare wood, I will tend to use WELDBOND.  Both are easily separated using alcohol.  CA requires acetone...yucky stuff.  If I am glueing small parts, such as deck furniture, etc, I tend to trunnel the piece with a wee bamboo peg as well as glue it.


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Chuck Seiler
San Diego Ship Modelers Guild
Nautical Research Guild

 
Current Build:
Continental Sloop PROVIDENCE
Continental Gunboat PHILADELPHIA (1/2" Scale Model Shipways Kit)
Colonial Schooner SULTANA (scratch from Model Expo Plans)


On Hold:
Colonial Pinnace VIRGINIA (1607)(scratch)
18th Century Longboat (Model Expo Kit)
 
Completed:
Missouri Riverboat FAR WEST (1876) Scratch
1776 Gunboat PHILADELPHIA (Scratch 1/4 scale-Model Shipways plans)


#4
Jaager

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You did the experiment for the use of PVA on prefinished wood.

Confirming that doing it is not a good idea.

 

It is not a surprise that Weldbond and Titebond yield similar results

on bare wood. Weldbond and Titebond are both PVA adhesives.

A difference may be the pH.

Weldbond   = 5.5

Titebond     = 3.5-4.5

Titebond II   = 3.5

 

Weldbond  is 10 - 100 times less acidic.

With wood the difference may be of no significance.

With cotton or linen the difference may matter but there

are pH 7 PVA products available.


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#5
Ulises Victoria

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Nice topic.

I use Gorilla (wood glue, not the foamy stuff), Titebond or Elmer's wood glue on wood to wood. (I have no preference over any one of these last three. Whichever is available at the moment. I haven't found evidence to support an opinion of which outperforms the others)

 

For any other media (most frequently metal to wood) 2 part epoxy is my choice by far. Is it messy? YES!; is it a big waste? YES! is it still the best choice (for me)? YES!.

 

:)


Edited by Ulises Victoria, 11 January 2017 - 10:58 PM.

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Ulises

 

If you want something you've never had, 

you have to do something you've never done.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Current Project Build Log: French Vessel Royal Louis 1780. 1/90 Scale by Mamoli. 120 Cannons

 
Last finished projectRoyal Ship Vasa 1628 

 

Future projects already in my stash:  Panart: San Felipe 1/75  (most likely my next project);

                                                         Artesanía Latina: HMS Surprise 1/48;

                                                         OcCre: Santísima Trinidad 1/90.

 

My Wish List: Soleil Royale. Sovereign of the Seas. Amati 1/64 Victory (if it ever comes out :) )


#6
Greg the peg leg sailor

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G'day Don
This is a great topic that you have started.
I found that I mostly used only one glue for everything. BALSA CEMENT.
This glue is very strong, easy to clean off the excess and can be painted or oil varnished over. But it relatively dries quick and hardens in about 8 hours. It takes about 2 minutes to hold two pieces together - example 4 x 1 mm timber held vertical on 1 mm edge against another same size piece.
You can even glue bare timber to preprinted timber. (This bond is not as strong as bare to bare, but it is still quite strong).
havagooday to all
Greg
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"Nothing is impossible, it's only what limitations that you put on yourself make it seems impossible! "

 

Current log : The Royal Yacht Royal Caroline 1749 1:32 by Greg Ashwood:...

 


#7
paulv1958

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Not sure that those glues avail in AUS but I use wood white PVA for most wood to wood. Dries clear no stain. Just have to be patient for drying.

or for decks / second layer planks - Contact Adhesive as per Keith Julier.

Lateral to vertical where strength is needed/ pinned 2 part Epoxy.

Metal to wood or metal to metal CA thick/thin or as designed and invented skin to skin!!!

Plastic - Tarzan's grip or Tamiya model glue

Rope CA / PVA diluted


  • mtaylor, thibaultron, Canute and 1 other like this

Paul V
 
Current Build:
Pending.... xmas

 
Completed Builds :
HM Bark Endeavour  Caldercraft
Panart Between decks

HMB Endeavour Longboat AL 1:50 Small Boat

San Juan S.XVI GALLEON AL
 

OH Hold:

HMS Victory Cross Section Corel 1:96( on hold)

 

On Shelf:

Occre Xbec

AL Santa Ana 1784

Caldercraft HMS Victory


#8
Dupree Allen

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May seem a silly question but.......... Frames are cut and ready for assembly. On double frames do you remove the lower template paper and glue wood to wood or just glue over the paper?  Using wood glue.


  • thibaultron and Greg the peg leg sailor like this

Dupree

 

"A slow steady hand conquers a fast shaky mind" - me

 

 

HMS Triton 1:32 Cross Section


#9
Greg the peg leg sailor

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I like to remove as much paper as possible then glue.
Greg
  • mtaylor, thibaultron, Canute and 1 other like this

"Nothing is impossible, it's only what limitations that you put on yourself make it seems impossible! "

 

Current log : The Royal Yacht Royal Caroline 1749 1:32 by Greg Ashwood:...

 


#10
Dupree Allen

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Greg

Thanks. It seemed like the thing to do, but now I know.


Edited by Dupree Allen, 14 January 2017 - 01:57 AM.

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Dupree

 

"A slow steady hand conquers a fast shaky mind" - me

 

 

HMS Triton 1:32 Cross Section


#11
Steve 12345

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When it comes to ca glue I like to buy zap a gap and don't trust the cheap brands found in pound shops or dollar stores wherever you may be from as for white pva I have worked in the carpentry business for 18 plus years and buy it by the gallon the cheapest trade five galleon drum I can find and find no difference what so ever
This may be off subject but also when it comes to paint stop being ripped off by hobbie shops selling small tins of sand and seal and varnish it's the same stuff as a builder supply would sell to treat wood
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