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HMS Triton (1/64) by Aldo - POB


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#41
AnobiumPunctatum

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Really nice progress, Aldo. Your bulkheads are looking very good.


Regards Christian
 

In the shipyard: HM Sloop Fly, 1776 - Scale 1/32;

On the drawing board: Naval Cutter Rattlesnake, 1777 - Scale 1/32


#42
Fam

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Ciao Aldo

great job so far!

I would have a couple of questions about your modifications:

- did you correct the bowsprit position (heigh) in your centre-board?

- you are the second to note the profile incorrectness in the aftmost bulkheads, so the problem is evident. Did you compare the involved bulkheads to the original NMM plans? Did you find if the error is here or there?

Might you provide a comparison of the new re-drawn profiles with those provided for the community built?

 

Thank you so much

Fam


Joint building:

   Brick de 24, 1/48, jointly with Jack Aubrey (POB from Ancre plans)

 

Works in progress:

   USS Constitution Cross Section, 1:93 (POF bashed from Mamoli kit)

 

Completed models:

   Santìsima Trinidad, 1/90 (POB heavily modified DeAgostini kit)

   Genoan Pinco, 1/50 (POB bashed from Euromodel plans - my current avatar)

   Viking Knarr, 1/72 (POF from Dusek kit)


#43
rdsaplala

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Thank you very much for the kind words, Christian and Fam, I appreciate it :)

 

Fam, before answering your questions, let me first clarify that these modifications are just based on my very limited understanding of nautical matters and only serve as an alternative approach to building this ship. The provided plans are more than enough to produce a beautiful model, and I just decided to do things a bit differently. Furthermore, let me add a disclaimer that my draughts were purchased way back when NMM allowed us to choose the level of resolution that we will buy, and being the cheapskate that I am, I bought the smallest sized plans, which of course would give fairly limited details. The plans I am using are about the same size as this HMS Pegasus draught that I got at about the same time:

 

DSC02451.jpg

 

I have purchased a much higher resolution "as built" profile/lines drawing of Triton this week, and my modifications may change depending on what I see in this more detailed draught.

 

Now that I've clarified these matters, here are the answers to your questions:

 



 

- did you correct the bowsprit position (heigh) in your centre-board?

 

Presently no, because I used the inboard profile for the Modified Mermaid Class, which appears to have the least amount of distortion, for my profile comparison. As such, the bowsprit height provided in that profile may not be specific for Triton. As previously stated I purchased a high resolution as built draught of Triton and it is this that I will use for getting the bowsprit height since this is more specific to her.

 



Did you compare the involved bulkheads to the original NMM plans? 

 

 

Yes, the bulkheads were compared to the plans, but like I said before, my current plans don't have a very high resolution and thus my work may undergo further modification once I get my hands on the high resolution plans. 

 

 

 

 


Did you find if the error is here or there?

Might you provide a comparison of the new re-drawn profiles with those provided for the community built?

 

Thank you so much

Fam

 

 

I took some pics with my phone to illustrate my answers here (sorry for the pic quality)

 

Comparison of the POB plans with the draught posed quite a challenge as not all the bulkheads corresponded to a particular station (see below):

 

Attached File  IMG_20130520_205020.jpg   67.88KB   0 downloads

 

As seen above only the aftmost stations numbered 1, 4, and 7 corresponded with bulkheads 27, 21 and 15 respectively so comparison was only possible among these. Here are the comparison results:

 

1. Bulkhead 27 versus 1st aftmost station: the discrepancy is pretty clear here.

 

Attached File  IMG_20130520_205351.jpg   78.53KB   0 downloads

 

2. Bulkhead 21 versus 4th aftmost station: the discrepancy does not seem very pronounced.

 

Attached File  IMG_20130520_205908.jpg   89.91KB   0 downloads

 

BUT juxtaposing the bulkhead with the station shows the discrepancy more clearly:

 

Attached File  IMG_20130520_211934.jpg   61.97KB   0 downloads

 

 

3. The same was true for Bulkhead 15 versus aftmost station number 7:

 

Attached File  IMG_20130520_211026.jpg   103.97KB   0 downloads

 

Attached File  IMG_20130520_211254.jpg   81.13KB   0 downloads

 

 

 

So, based on the pics above, it would appear that the bulkheads 15, 21 and 27 are not very consistent with the stations corresponding to them. Of course, changing these three bulkheads to correspond to their respective stations would also require modifications of the bulkheads in between them (bulkheads 18 and 24). So far, this is only what I've accomplished with this primitive little experiment.

 

I do have a very encouraging finding: As you go towards the waist, the discrepancy becomes less and I've noted that the middle-most bulkhead in the provided plans and the middle-most station in the draught (bulkhead/station 0) are spot on to one another, thus giving me hope that majority of the bulkheads at the waist are faithful to the draught   :D

 

I have yet to work on the other bulkheads and of course, my bulkheads are still open to further changes based on what I see in the high resolution plans, as well as additional feedback/tips/corrections that you, or our other members may provide ;) One thing is sure, I really have to learn CAD as doing these corrections manually is starting to feel a bit tedious :P


Edited by rdsaplala, 20 May 2013 - 10:31 PM.

  • Cap'n Rat Fink likes this

Best regards,

Aldo

Currently Building:
HMS Pegasus (Victory Models)-Mothballed to give priority to Triton

 

HMS Triton (first attempt at scratchbuilding)

 

 


Past build:
HM Brig Badger (Caldercraft), HM Brig Cruizer, HM Schooner Ballahoo


#44
AnobiumPunctatum

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Did I understand you right, have you ordered a digital copy of the drawings? Where on there website is this possible?

I wanted to order a plan and digitize it at a copyshop to do the work in my cad system. But your way should be much easier and hopefully more accurate.


Edited by AnobiumPunctatum, 20 May 2013 - 04:03 PM.

Regards Christian
 

In the shipyard: HM Sloop Fly, 1776 - Scale 1/32;

On the drawing board: Naval Cutter Rattlesnake, 1777 - Scale 1/32


#45
rdsaplala

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Hi Christian, no I bought another hard copy from NMM, but this time larger in size, at about 1m x .4m, it's much larger, and hopefully with clearer details than my current draughts (see below):

 

http://prints.rmg.co...sheer_lines_and

 

Unfortunately, it's also a bit more expensive than my previous purchases :P :

Once this set arrives, hopefully in a month or so, I will also scan them and resize them to 1/64  :)


Edited by rdsaplala, 26 May 2013 - 01:41 AM.

Best regards,

Aldo

Currently Building:
HMS Pegasus (Victory Models)-Mothballed to give priority to Triton

 

HMS Triton (first attempt at scratchbuilding)

 

 


Past build:
HM Brig Badger (Caldercraft), HM Brig Cruizer, HM Schooner Ballahoo


#46
AnobiumPunctatum

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Thanks for the info. Then you use the same source and way as I do. I hope that I get the copy next month and can check my finished drawings and redo the cants. I like to build her with single frames and the original frame layout.


  • rdsaplala likes this

Regards Christian
 

In the shipyard: HM Sloop Fly, 1776 - Scale 1/32;

On the drawing board: Naval Cutter Rattlesnake, 1777 - Scale 1/32


#47
Fam

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Ciao Aldo

I have to thank you for the really quick response and the interesting comparison you carried out.

You are right when wanting to wait for a higher resolution copy, but I think this won't change the core of the problem. CAD is probably the solution for a more accurate job in redrawing new bulkheads corresponding to the missing #24 and #18.

Will continue to watch your progress

Ciao again

Fam


  • rdsaplala likes this

Joint building:

   Brick de 24, 1/48, jointly with Jack Aubrey (POB from Ancre plans)

 

Works in progress:

   USS Constitution Cross Section, 1:93 (POF bashed from Mamoli kit)

 

Completed models:

   Santìsima Trinidad, 1/90 (POB heavily modified DeAgostini kit)

   Genoan Pinco, 1/50 (POB bashed from Euromodel plans - my current avatar)

   Viking Knarr, 1/72 (POF from Dusek kit)


#48
rdsaplala

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Thanks for the info. Then you use the same source and way as I do. I hope that I get the copy next month and can check my finished drawings and redo the cants. I like to build her with single frames and the original frame layout.

 

Thanks Christian, I'm pleased to know that you plan to correct the offending frames on Triton, that'll be of great help to all builders of this beautiful ship. Also if by some chance you decide to re-trace the Profile, Half-breadth and Body plan of Triton on CAD, and correct the distortions, I hope you won't mind sharing them as they would be of great help in making a more accurate centerboard and set of bulkheads  ;)

 



Ciao Aldo

I have to thank you for the really quick response and the interesting comparison you carried out.

You are right when wanting to wait for a higher resolution copy, but I think this won't change the core of the problem. CAD is probably the solution for a more accurate job in redrawing new bulkheads corresponding to the missing #24 and #18.

Will continue to watch your progress

Ciao again

Fam

 

Thanks Fam, CAD is indeed the most accurate method for re-drafting new bulkheads 24 and 18, it's included in my priority list of "things to learn" B)

 

For now however, given my zero knowledge on CAD, I came up with a low-tech approach to correcting all involved bulkheads without any re-drafting. This was to make a new centerboard with no open slots then mark the stations of the draught directly onto the centerboard:

 

Attached File  IMG_20130521_200155.jpg   155.07KB   3 downloads

 

 

This basically allowed me to use the provided sections in the draught to make "half bulkheads" and stick these directly to their corresponding stations in the centerboard:

 

Attached File  IMG_20130521_201346.jpg   129.93KB   3 downloads

 

 

Attached File  IMG_20130521_201413.jpg   168.9KB   5 downloads

 

Attached File  IMG_20130521_201528.jpg   148.53KB   7 downloads

 

 

As seen in the pic below of the front bulkheads, I basically disregarded the bulkhead slots in the centerboard and just attached the new bulkheads traced from the draught onto their corresponding stations:

 

Attached File  IMG_20130521_201648.jpg   76.97KB   5 downloads

 

 

A downside to this is the stations are pretty close together so I have to use thinner bulkheads to avoid fouling the gunports.

 

Another major limitation is that I have to choose my bulkheads carefully, making sure I don't use the distorted ones (encircled)

 

 

Attached File  IMG_20130521_201346.jpg   129.93KB   3 downloads

 

 

Knowledge on CAD would have been very helpful in correcting all these distortions thereby allowing me a wider selection of bulkheads to choose from... of course, if anyone knowledgeable on CAD is willing to volunteer retracing my new draught when it arrives, and correcting all the distortions, I'm just a PM away  ^_^

 

 

 


  • harvey1847 and Cap'n Rat Fink like this

Best regards,

Aldo

Currently Building:
HMS Pegasus (Victory Models)-Mothballed to give priority to Triton

 

HMS Triton (first attempt at scratchbuilding)

 

 


Past build:
HM Brig Badger (Caldercraft), HM Brig Cruizer, HM Schooner Ballahoo


#49
j21896

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Great work Aldo!

 

Robert


Current Build: HMS Mars


#50
AnobiumPunctatum

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Aldo,

 

on my (also not really good) NMM copy is no distortion. There are frames, which are really close together. If you get your new NMM drawing you can see it. I send you a PM.


Regards Christian
 

In the shipyard: HM Sloop Fly, 1776 - Scale 1/32;

On the drawing board: Naval Cutter Rattlesnake, 1777 - Scale 1/32


#51
rdsaplala

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Great work Aldo!

 

Robert

 

Thanks for the encouraging words, Robert, all this new learning on plans can be a bit tedious, but fun and exciting nonetheless :D

Aldo,

 

on my (also not really good) NMM copy is no distortion. There are frames, which are really close together. If you get your new NMM drawing you can see it. I send you a PM.

 

Thank you very much for the help on the drawings Christian, I sent you a PM :)


Best regards,

Aldo

Currently Building:
HMS Pegasus (Victory Models)-Mothballed to give priority to Triton

 

HMS Triton (first attempt at scratchbuilding)

 

 


Past build:
HM Brig Badger (Caldercraft), HM Brig Cruizer, HM Schooner Ballahoo


#52
Fam

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Ciao Aldo

all in all a good recovery plan! As far as I understand from you pictures (the last but one), are you also replacing the bow bulkheads? Be careful in keeping bulkheads square to the cente board and strenghtening the joints!

I think the distorted bulkheads are an insuperable problem, unless you try to correct by hand the steps: as I can see, the same distorsion seem to be present in all bulkheads, as if the lower section of the plan has been enlarged.

The new copy of the plan should resolve the issue: I only have a very small copy but the shapes seem to be correct.

 

Attached File  NMM_plan_HMS_Triton.jpg   50.5KB   28 downloads

 

Ciao

Fam


Edited by Fam, 22 May 2013 - 06:43 AM.

Joint building:

   Brick de 24, 1/48, jointly with Jack Aubrey (POB from Ancre plans)

 

Works in progress:

   USS Constitution Cross Section, 1:93 (POF bashed from Mamoli kit)

 

Completed models:

   Santìsima Trinidad, 1/90 (POB heavily modified DeAgostini kit)

   Genoan Pinco, 1/50 (POB bashed from Euromodel plans - my current avatar)

   Viking Knarr, 1/72 (POF from Dusek kit)


#53
rdsaplala

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Thanks for the reminder on securing the bulkheads, Fam, I will keep that in mind :)

Yes, these distortions in the sections can be a real bugger, the particular draught that I used for the bulkheads is this 1773 plan:

 

Attached File  HMS_Triton_1773.jpg   129.77KB   30 downloads

 

the actual plan is about 1 1/2 foot long and the bulkheads seem to have no distortion at that size, unfortunately, enlarging the plan seems to emphasize distortions, which were previously not visible :( The good thing is the minor distortions are correctable using the corresponding waterline measurements in the halfbreadth plan, which luckily is not distorted ^_^

 

I see that you have the 1771 as built plans, I'm pleased to know that it has no distortion. That is the particular high resolution plan that I purchased from NMM a few days ago, I am hoping that this plan will still have no distortion at high resolution as I will use it to re-evaluate all my bulkheads  :)

 

EDIT:

 

Just a small clarification;

 

The plan that I erroneously called 1773 plan is NMM's Technical Drawing ZAZ3240 "as proposed" for the Modified Mermaid Class Ships: Triton (1773), Greyhound (1773), Boreas (1774) ).

 

http://prints.rmg.co...773_Boreas_1774

 

The plan that I called 1771 as built plan is draught  ZAZ3235 for Triton (1771) as built by MBs Adams at Bucklers Hard:

 

http://prints.rmg.co...sheer_lines_and


Edited by rdsaplala, 23 May 2013 - 02:03 PM.

Best regards,

Aldo

Currently Building:
HMS Pegasus (Victory Models)-Mothballed to give priority to Triton

 

HMS Triton (first attempt at scratchbuilding)

 

 


Past build:
HM Brig Badger (Caldercraft), HM Brig Cruizer, HM Schooner Ballahoo


#54
Fam

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Hi Aldo

I just downloaded the picture yesterday from another topic in this section (btw: you posted it!), but also accessed the NMM archive and saw your same version is available. Conversely, I was not able to find the 1773 version, don't know if the source is correct.

Would like to know if the community building plans are based on 1773 or 1771 version...I can see several differences but hope the hull lines remain unchanged!

Regards Fam


Edited by Fam, 23 May 2013 - 08:00 AM.

Joint building:

   Brick de 24, 1/48, jointly with Jack Aubrey (POB from Ancre plans)

 

Works in progress:

   USS Constitution Cross Section, 1:93 (POF bashed from Mamoli kit)

 

Completed models:

   Santìsima Trinidad, 1/90 (POB heavily modified DeAgostini kit)

   Genoan Pinco, 1/50 (POB bashed from Euromodel plans - my current avatar)

   Viking Knarr, 1/72 (POF from Dusek kit)


#55
AnobiumPunctatum

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Fam,

 

there exist only one set of drawings at the NMM. The keel was laid down 1771. The launch was 1773.


Regards Christian
 

In the shipyard: HM Sloop Fly, 1776 - Scale 1/32;

On the drawing board: Naval Cutter Rattlesnake, 1777 - Scale 1/32


#56
rdsaplala

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Hi guys,

 

Sorry for the confusion my last post has caused  :blush: There is indeed only one set of plans specific for Triton as built (it's plan ZAZ3235 and is the plan I recently ordered and am waiting for to arrive). I have edited my previous post accordingly, thank you for the clarification, Christian  :) 

 

Fam, you are correct, there are some differences in the two plans, most notable of which, are the details in the quarter galleries. Dang, it completely slipped my mind, I was so busy revising my bulkheads that I forgot that I am using the "as proposed" plan for the Modified Mermaid Class when I should have waited for the "as built" plans to arrive before revising any bulkheads :o The lines look the same at first glance, but I am almost 100% sure that there are bound to be some differences upon close inspection. Oh well, I may be looking at another redo of my bulkheads (or make that entire model) once my plan ZAZ3235 arrives. Ah yes, fun fun and more fun... :P

Does anybody know where that emoticon of "hitting my head with a hammer" is? I think I could use it right about now :wacko:    


Edited by rdsaplala, 23 May 2013 - 02:47 PM.

Best regards,

Aldo

Currently Building:
HMS Pegasus (Victory Models)-Mothballed to give priority to Triton

 

HMS Triton (first attempt at scratchbuilding)

 

 


Past build:
HM Brig Badger (Caldercraft), HM Brig Cruizer, HM Schooner Ballahoo


#57
AnobiumPunctatum

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Aldo,

 

I got today a 500DPI scan of the ZAZ3235 drawing (~50MB). Keep your fingers crossed that I find some time at the weekend to solve my problems with the lines.


Regards Christian
 

In the shipyard: HM Sloop Fly, 1776 - Scale 1/32;

On the drawing board: Naval Cutter Rattlesnake, 1777 - Scale 1/32


#58
rdsaplala

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Wow! That's great Christian, thank you very much, both my fingers are crossed my friend :)


Best regards,

Aldo

Currently Building:
HMS Pegasus (Victory Models)-Mothballed to give priority to Triton

 

HMS Triton (first attempt at scratchbuilding)

 

 


Past build:
HM Brig Badger (Caldercraft), HM Brig Cruizer, HM Schooner Ballahoo


#59
riverboat

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Aldo....you are amazing!!!


completed build: Delta River Co. Riverboat     HMAT SUPPLY

                        

                         USRC "ALERT"

 

in progress: Red Dragon  (Chinese junk)

                      


#60
rdsaplala

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Hi Frank,

 

Thanks for the good word, my friend, they are always much appreciated :)

To be perfectly honest, I don't feel so amazing after my recent lapse in judgement of using an "as proposed" set of plans instead of the more ship-specific "as built" plans to modify my bulkheads, but I think a few nights having my fill of alcoholic beverage should fix that :D


  • mtaylor likes this

Best regards,

Aldo

Currently Building:
HMS Pegasus (Victory Models)-Mothballed to give priority to Triton

 

HMS Triton (first attempt at scratchbuilding)

 

 


Past build:
HM Brig Badger (Caldercraft), HM Brig Cruizer, HM Schooner Ballahoo





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