Jump to content

Welcome to Model Ship World
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Triton (1:48) by kellrandy (Randall)


  • Please log in to reply
123 replies to this topic

#41
kellrandy

kellrandy
  • Members
  • 79 posts
So, I have to say I scrapped my method of mounting the keel, and went with a very basic method of scrap wood with some sandpaper to grip the sides of the keel and some braces for the stem and stern. It holds solid, but not to tight that I can't remove it when it's time. My method was using the rabbet to hold it down, but didn't get enough grip to do it that way and I didn't want to damage it.

On to other things... The transoms I am having to redo. I didn't shape them correctly the first go round and am trying to figure out the shape. I'm not able to visualize it properly I guess. Is the whole top and bottom tapered as shown on the stern view? And if so, what's the purpose of the line that's in the middle? Does that taper on the inside of the transoms? Thanks again for helping out a rookie!

#42
harvey1847

harvey1847
  • Members
  • 566 posts
  • LocationMadrid, Spain, The Old Continent

Hi Randy!

 

I can tell you what worked for me. I did not tapered these pieces untill the framing of the stern was done. With the frames raised you will have a "better view" of hull. ( at least the stern, if you glue the aft cant frames)

 

Hope this will help you. Good luck!

 

Daniel.



#43
kellrandy

kellrandy
  • Members
  • 79 posts
Hi Daniel, thank you for the info. That's what I had planned to do for the sides, but was talking more about how they are shaped to make them parallel/horizontal to the keel. In the stern view on the plans, the joint is higher than the sides, they taper down. Are they tapered from the joint down as a whole? Or just from the line in the middle to the outside edge? The line down the middle I'm thinking is the taper line for the inside? Thank you!

Edited by kellrandy, 09 February 2014 - 04:10 PM.


#44
harvey1847

harvey1847
  • Members
  • 566 posts
  • LocationMadrid, Spain, The Old Continent

Hi Randall!

The ends are lower than the joint. I did so because that was what the plans showed. But if I had to do these pieces again, I would make them completely parallel to the keel. It's what I've seen in most of plans since.

The truth is that they were a pain on the neck. Repeated a lot of them ... It is not the parts of the ship that I'm most proud of but re-do it now is out of my mind..
.

 

You can see some pics on my log (1st page post #6)...

 

Best wishes!

 

 

Daniel.



#45
kellrandy

kellrandy
  • Members
  • 79 posts

Hi all, back with a little bit more progress...   The first set is the mounting to the board to get ready for framing.  Since the build board is a pretty good size, I acquired some table legs with locking wheels so I could rotate it around to get to all aspects from any angle.  Also, the mounting is set up the same way with as little in the way as possible without compromising security and support for the keel, stem, and stern.  The second is the second go with the transoms, they're almost ready to glue in place, plus I have to remake filling #3, that's why it's not in the photos.  I broke it in half while I was tapering it, oops.  I learned quick not to cut the notch before I shape them, lol.

 

Build board mounting...

Attached File  IMG_0099.jpg   124.49KB   0 downloads

Attached File  IMG_0100.jpg   132.77KB   0 downloads

Attached File  IMG_0101.jpg   164.62KB   0 downloads

Attached File  IMG_0102.jpg   169.11KB   0 downloads

Attached File  IMG_0103.jpg   184.86KB   0 downloads

Attached File  IMG_0104.JPG   161.53KB   0 downloads

Attached File  IMG_0106.jpg   164.36KB   0 downloads

Attached File  IMG_0107.jpg   118.14KB   0 downloads

Attached File  IMG_0108.jpg   114.31KB   0 downloads

Attached File  IMG_0109.jpg   187.6KB   0 downloads

Attached File  IMG_0110.jpg   155.41KB   0 downloads

Attached File  IMG_0111.jpg   176.83KB   0 downloads

Attached File  IMG_0112.jpg   196.74KB   0 downloads

 

The transoms, test fitting...

 

Attached File  IMG_0114.jpg   154.58KB   0 downloads

Attached File  IMG_0117.jpg   156.84KB   0 downloads

Attached File  IMG_0118.jpg   126.57KB   0 downloads

Attached File  IMG_0119.jpg   136.83KB   0 downloads

 

Have a good week everyone!

 

Randall


  • Pete38, mtaylor, harvey1847 and 3 others like this

#46
Tim C

Tim C
  • Members
  • 681 posts
  • LocationHudson, Florida USA

Looks like you are off to a nice start. Enjoy

 

Later Tim


Current Build -- Finishing a 1:1 House that I've been building for a while

Current Build -- Triton Cross Section


#47
kellrandy

kellrandy
  • Members
  • 79 posts
Hi everyone! The rookie is back with yet another question... I've started shaping the aft frames that I have roughed out and was wondering about the angles of them. "Common sense" would say they are done on the floor futtocks to get the proper angle. Is there anything weird that I don't know about in the plans on the rest of the frame futtocks to achieve the angles necessary?

#48
the learner

the learner
  • Members
  • 482 posts
  • LocationCypress CA US

Try this it might help but only for the stern frames

 

Attached File  angles tilt sander_A4.pdf   20.61KB   68 downloads

 

 

I do not remember where it came from, might be in the downloads or one of the group posted it


Edited by the learner, 26 February 2014 - 08:02 PM.

Cheers, Guy
The Learner
Current Member NRG,SMA

 

Current Build: HMS Triton 1:48 on line

 

 

 


#49
harvey1847

harvey1847
  • Members
  • 566 posts
  • LocationMadrid, Spain, The Old Continent

Guy... I drawed that one... Hope it has help you.

 

Randall, those patterns are to set them on your tilt table of the disc sander. Have a look on the last post of Guy. It explain very well the process. To be honest on the stem cant frames I just tilted the table to the angle refered on the plans,  sand a stick 15x15mm of pine first at that angle, put it against the deadwood and see if it was correct and if so, sanded the frame working as Guy,,, slooowly. I marked with pencil where the direction of the sanding were to go. TRY WITH SCRAP PIECES FIRST.

 

Good luck!



#50
the learner

the learner
  • Members
  • 482 posts
  • LocationCypress CA US

You forgot the stern! but yes they were a great help giving an almost an exact angle of the frame to the keel. I can't help it I have a slow and underpowered sander, the price was right! free lol


Edited by the learner, 06 March 2014 - 08:00 AM.

  • harvey1847 likes this

Cheers, Guy
The Learner
Current Member NRG,SMA

 

Current Build: HMS Triton 1:48 on line

 

 

 


#51
kellrandy

kellrandy
  • Members
  • 79 posts

Hi everyone, been a while, but I have also been busy making the aft can't frames and they're ready to start raising.  Not to many pics this time around.  In one of my research books, it was stated that the frames were bolted with 1" copper bolts and also anchor chocks were placed in-between the futtocks.  I did the bolting, but not the anchor chocks on the aft cant frames as I couldn't see exactly how to cut them into the futtocks before I faired them in.  I do intend to place them into the square frames though.  Next up is raising the aft frames them moving on to the fore cant frames and hawse pieces, then fill in the middle.  Thanks to Guy and Daniel very much for the help with the angles, they worked out really well.

 

I'm all set to start raising them.  Have some good scrap pieces to make the support block spacers and some walnut for the gunport lintels & sills, and a set of braces for the top to set the correct width.  Until next time...

 

Attached File  IMG_0138.jpg   506.89KB   0 downloads

Attached File  IMG_0137.jpg   581.81KB   0 downloads

Attached File  IMG_0140.jpg   159.38KB   0 downloads


  • Pete38, mtaylor, harvey1847 and 2 others like this

#52
kellrandy

kellrandy
  • Members
  • 79 posts

Hi guys, rookie is back again...

 

So, I was all excited to raise my first frame, #28.  Got the ends of the transoms prepped and ready to go then came the test fit with some rubber bands and as you can see from the pics, the width is way off.  I have no idea where this error came from or how to fix it yet.  If I push them out, to get the brace in-between, I won't even be able to attach it to the transoms.  What boggles my mind even more, is that it fits fine on the template. Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  I hope the blacking out is ok for the copyright stuff as I don't know how else to get my explanation of the problem across.  Thanks in advance guys...

 

View from fore:

Attached File  IMG_0143.jpg   150.01KB   0 downloads

 

View from stern:

Attached File  IMG_0144.jpg   159.62KB   0 downloads

 

Plan View (assembly)

Attached File  IMG_0145.jpg   571.1KB   0 downloads

 


Edited by kellrandy, 17 March 2014 - 08:45 PM.

  • harvey1847 and Aussie048 like this

#53
Matrim

Matrim

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 1,041 posts
  • LocationLeicestershire, England

Looks nice, I also like the wood choice (grain shows nicely in the photos)


Ours is a life of constant reruns. We're always circling back to where we'd we started, then starting all over again. Even if we don't run extra laps that day, we surely will come back for more of the same another day soon. - Joe Henderson


#54
mtaylor

mtaylor

    Bilge Rat

  • SPECIAL CONTRIBUTOR
  • 14,221 posts
  • LocationMedford, OR

I must be missing something as I don't see what the problem is.  Can you highlight it on the photos?


Mark

"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me


Current Build:

Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0

Past Builds:
Triton Cross-Section
USS Constellaton (kit bashed to 1854 Sloop of War (Gallery) Build Log
Wasa (Gallery)


Member of the Nautical Research Guild


#55
kellrandy

kellrandy
  • Members
  • 79 posts

I edited the previous post adding in some annotations on the photos.  Basically what I'm worried about is the breadth between the frames.  The brace shown was cut to the width shown in the assembly plan for the frames and is the same one in all of those photos.



#56
kellrandy

kellrandy
  • Members
  • 79 posts
Well, I think I figured it out. It started with the keel and trimming to fit the keel plan. That means I pretty much have to start over yet again. I'm really on the verge of giving up completely. We'll see how I feel about it in a few days. Right now, I'm done and completely defeated.

#57
SketchupModeller

SketchupModeller
  • Members
  • 106 posts
  • LocationCanada

I also don't see a problem.  You have correctly cut the frames to match the pattern.  When installed, the frames will be angled to sit against the ends of the transoms.  When angled like this, the top ends of the frames will be closer together than they originally appear on the pattern (I think this is your main concern, please correct me if it isn't). 

 

Consider it this way: lay a book open on a table, then watch how the distance between the corners decreases as you close the book.  The pattern is printed as if the 'book' were wide open, so that you cut the frame to the correct shape, and during installation the 'book' is partially closed.

 

Hopefully this helps explain why your spacer block fits with the frames on the pattern and not with the frames installed.


Brandon

Current project: HMS Pandora (1779) CAD build


#58
kellrandy

kellrandy
  • Members
  • 79 posts

Thank you for that explanation, I do see it now and does make sense, but the stern portion is pretty bad.  Earlier in my build, I was having a lot of issues with the keel plan versus what came out from the cutting templates for the keel, deadwood, transoms, etc.  They were all about too big versus the keel plan, so I cut the parts to fit the keel plan.  Now, on the framing jig, the frames are not fitting the deadwood at all because now it's all too short.  I could get 28 & 27 to fit on their step, but the rest were pushed too far out and off of their steps. I also made the template for the steps from the keel plan.  Comparing them to the cutting template, they're pushed too far back.  I thought my plans were printing out too big, but now I can surely see they are coming out fine.

 

So I'm glad I can get over things quickly. Here's my plan, re-do the stern portion.  I'll remake the last two sections of keel so it's right and the deadwoods stop at frames #19 for the stern and Q at the fore sections as this is what the DOF shows.  Then redo the stern post, inner post, deadwood, and transoms, trimming only to the cutting templates as I did on the stem.  I believe this will put me back on the right track, I hope.



#59
druxey

druxey
  • Members
  • 4,767 posts
  • LocationNiagara on the Lake, Ontario, Canada

Is the bevel on the inner face in the correct place? Looks 'off' from what I can see in your photos. The widest side of the bevel should sit on the line of the pattern under it.



#60
kellrandy

kellrandy
  • Members
  • 79 posts
No, I haven't done any beveling on the frames yet. I just cut them to the widest part of the templates like I have seen done in other logs. I plan on doing the beveling after they're up. All I have done so far with them is setting the angles on the floor futtocks.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Welcome GUEST to the Model Ship World Community.
Please LOGIN or REGISTER to use all of our feautures.