3D Printing - Not Just Yet!

[dvm27]

My first attempt at 3D printing was not quite up to snuff. I used the company Shapeways and had a designer make the 3D model at a very small cost. I then had the cannons printed in several different materials. Unfortunately, none of them matched the CNC turned brass cannon (far right in photo below) in quality. 3D printing does have the advantage, however, of being able to incorporate features such as the Monogram and vent plates. They probably look better than most kit cannons so certainly something to consider. I wonder if there are other printers capable of printing finer detail.

 

 

[Chuck]

That is certainly a disappointment.  My guess is that the per piece price is still pretty high for that quality as well.  Better to make a few good brass masters and then have them professionally cast.

 

Chuck

[Chuck]

I have seen better although they are slightly larger....1:24 scale.   But they are crazy expensive and I dont know what machine he uses

 

[Q A's Revenge]

It's promising technology, but as I mentioned in another post I've been quite underwhelmed by most 3D printer output so far.

[Chuck]

Folks have added additional steps to help reduce the surface texture.  It will be a few more years I suspect.

 

Check out this article.

 

http://www.kraftwurx.com/forum/25-how-to/572-smoothing-3d-printed-models

 

Chuck

[druxey]

In the accompanying video I'm shocked to see that the demonstrator has an open jar of acetone, sending vapors into the room and his lungs! Folks, if you do this, a spark-free fan and venting is a Very Good Thing to do.

[CAd My Fingers]

To add to Druxey's excellent suggestions, I'd include wearing a half-face respirator w/ organic filters when working with acetone, particularly if the ventilation is a fan or etc. along with being very aware, and wary, of acetone's very low flash point!

 

Jay

[captainbob]

Seven or eight years ago when I was working we would send 3D drawings to a company that specialized in 3D printing.  The machines they used were as large as a refrigerator and quite expensive, so the parts were also expensive. (They had to pay for the machine.)  The parts they printed were beautiful and the surface was smooth enough to use as sliding surfaces in our prototypes.  Hopefully one day a company will make a low priced desktop printers that will produce the same hihg quality.

 

Bob

[RKurczewski]

It is all down to material/ technology you will use. In case of Shapeways- ultra detail acrylic is what is (imo) the only usable option and that's what I am using for my projects. Metal- no, not yet.

[Don9of11]

I was doing some research and came across this website. You can upload your model, and this company will make it on a 3D printer for you. They can print in different materials like Brass, steel, aluminum, ceramics, plastics.  I haven't explored the whole site but it looks pretty interesting.

 

http://www.shapeways.com/

 

http://www.shapeways.com/materials/brass?li=nav

[DRW-FJ40]

I'm sort of new here but this topic caught my eye. As someone mentioned, material is key for detail. I recently designed a 1950's gas pump and had it printed via shapeways. My conclusions were that you can get that CNC detail with frosted ultra detail plastic and a little elbow grease but... it's plastic and it's expensive. Ultimately it's good for a prototype to "sell" the idea to someone with access to less expensive manufacturing methods. But that cannon would look real good in a material with better detail quality like the "frosted ultra detail" 

 

This is the finished pump model which is 10 scale so about 7.5" tall. The larger pieces are made of "strong white flexible" plastic because it's cheaper and they didn't require the detail. But the pump nozzle & engraved lettering on the face plate are FUD. I experimented with different materials and just couldn't get the detail. 

 

Edited March 11, 2014 by DRW-FJ40

[flying_dutchman2]

I know it is not naval related but still amazing.

 

Here is something from the University of Southern California which is testing a giant 3D printer that could be used to build a whole house in under 24 hours.

 

http://innovation.uk.msn.com/design/the-3d-printer-that-can-build-a-house-in-24-hours

 

Just think in a couple of years 3D printers will build boats, cars, etc.

 

Marc

[WackoWolf]

Now that is cool. Thanks for the link.

[42rocker]

A 3d 2,500 square foot house in 24 hours out of concrete. WOW. That would sure change a lot of things. Very interesting.

 

Later Tim

[RKurczewski]

I did a hull of Renommee recently. Cheapest of cheap printer, heated polystyrene. Cost ? Eeee... about 5$ ? Not really sure. Here are results. 

 

 

Now- of course it is by no means something to be used "as is", BUT after polishing surface is even and true (basically- like in plastic kit) and more then ready to have "planks" glued onto it. Quite good (and precise) base if you ask me. 

[dgbot]

Interesting, a solid hull to start with. How about other parts?

David B

[Sharpie]

Since I got my printer, I've been wondering about making 3D printed parts for ship models, but I haven't gotten around to it yet, mostly due to my lack of CAD skills, though hopefully not for much longer. For model ship parts, Laywood filament might be the ideal material. It looks and feels like wood, and apparently can be cut, drilled, and sanded just like wood. I've even seen people use a script in the printing software to vary the temperatures of each layer, creating a pronounced wood-grain like effect. It's a lot more expensive than PLA or ABS filament, but for pieces smaller than a complete hull, you wouldn't need much. I'd certainly like to try some out at some point, maybe for things like small lifeboats that are somewhat more difficult to make or buy.

Here's a link: https://thre3d.com/product/245-laywood

 

Of course the main advantage of 3D printing is the ability to make things that aren't otherwise available. For example, I've been thinking that I might be able to sell small runs of ancient trireme and bireme kits if I could design and print a naval ram (or even sell just the ram, though I would think that would be a very niche market), which can be fairly challenging to make by hand, and isn't that well represented on existing kits.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Sharpie

[RKurczewski]

Dgbot- any parts you want. In my case it is just always balance between price and purpose of print. If something is to be invisible anyway (like structural parts of hull)- I go for cheapest option like Makerbot (printer costs around 1-2 K $). With details- much much better printers or services. Below is a sample of medium quality print that costs 2 Euro. For my purpose- it is good enough. At high quality it would be significantly more precise- but at cost of 6 Euro so... balance and calculation of what you want/can pay for. As in any other part of our life .

 

[dgbot]

Pretty good. At a club meeting one of the members brought in some pieces done by 3d. The company he works for uses them. And like you said. It all depends on how much you are willing to spend. The general consensus was that for super fine detail it was cheaper to cast the part. The cannon barrel was perfect. But at 4.59 each not worth getting one.

David B

[pompey2]

We do a quite a lot of very fine metal parts for myday job.

Selelective Laser Sintering SLS- can be done with range of metals, titanium, stainless steel etc.

Finishes are getting better and better.

You would be hard pressed to see the grain sturcture in some

Of course cost remains the issue

 

Nick

[nrg710]

This is something that I saw on facebook the other day in the group "Modeling [sic] the Olympic Class". It is a davit from RMS Britannic, 1:350 scale, printed on a Formlabs Form 1.

 

Personally, I think the quality is really very good, especially for a consumer-level machine.

 

 

If this is anything to go by, then in the next few years affordable 3D printing that renders good enough quality to pass all but the most meticulous inspection will be a reality!

[grsjax]

Nautical Research Journal had a good article on the 3D printing state of the art in the latest issue.  Excellent review of the current technology and the results that can be expected from the different types of printers and materials available.

[Chidokan]

I have decided to buy the knarr from here to take a look at the quality...(and to rob the crew for something larger!) I dont think it will replace scratch building, but would certainly be a help for really complex items like carvings on the bow or stern... I could see AL and the other big kit makers dropping their metal castings in favour of these once the detail is fine enough at a reasonably low cost.

 

http://www.medievalmodelships.com/#!products/cjg9

[Patrick Matthews]

As posted in another thread here, there are places where 3DP works, are there are processes that are usable... and some that aren't! Virtually no printer that you or I can afford will be satisfactory, and most all printed parts (for now) require a lot of surface clean up to remove the visible layering.

 

But it is possible. This 1:24 PT boat is 3D Printed from the deck up (all cabin parts, weapons, deck fittings, even the glazing), less a few bits of string, tissue, and and a few whittled parts.

 

 

Edited November 30, 2014 by Pat Matthews

[dgbot]

Impressive.

David B

[willz]

personally i cant see the point of 3d printers, for me building model ships from wood is the way to go, for the price of a 3d printer you could buy a small lathe and turn out cannons, but again thats just me

[Patrick Matthews]

Inability to see might be related to having one's blinders on!  

 

Seriously (and again as I've said elsewhere), if your goal is to make a wood model of a wood ship, then by all means that's the best thing to do. 

 

But not all ships are wood, and neither must all models be wood, and not all modelers are limited to age-of-sail.

Is wood the best medium to recreate the Bell Mk17 carriage for the twin Browning 50 caliber machine guns on my 1942 PT boat? Maybe not!

Care to form the air cooling holes around those Brownings' barrels by whittling a twig? Yikes! How about recreating the conical sheet metal surrounds with their beaded lips from a block of burl? I think not.

 

Also, not all builds are the leisurely exercises of hobbyists with infinite time on their hands. The PT boat above was a commission, and 3DP helped enormously in its rapid completion- 4 months from laser cutting the first hull frames to the posting of these images of the finished model.

 

There are reasons enough, believe me...

[CaptainSteve]

While I agree with you entirely, Pat, I can see the day fast approaching when the coming breed of historically-minded ship-modellers will fret over getting the details 100% correct in their Solidworks design for every, single part and fitting before it is 3D printed.

(Yes, even on an Age Of Sail model.)

Edited December 2, 2014 by CaptainSteve

[NenadM]

Maybe I am old fashioned and time left me behind, even I like all this new stuff, but shipmodeling is not and do not have to be even simillar to playing Lego.

 

Maybe new art or new hobby is born, and I am ok with this, but do not call this ship modeling.

 

Frontier question again. As another simllar question, there is no absolute answer .

 

As I remember well, simillar questiond were rised up when laser cutters appear. Also when different maschine tools appear

 

Anyhow, there is enough room for all. In kit model, we use fabricated parts. Or not. Or make them better. Or not.

 

And it can be very nice having 3mm stearing wheel in a bottle ...

 

Nenad

Edited December 6, 2014 by Nenad M

[RKurczewski]

I beg to disagree with mr. Nenad M. Ship modeling is building models of ship. Period. Be it wood, plastic, metal, bone- it is all ship modeling.

 

Main goal of historical model building is to get as close to historical original as possible. It is not about MEANS- it is about final results. Are models covered in exotic wood  strips resembling even remotely painted and weathered oak age of sail ships ? Models that are not touched by paint at all ? Ones with nails clearly visible all over the hull on 1:96 scale ?  Shiny brass cannons ? Tinted and vaxed wood that looks like old credenza ? Visible, beautiful (and totally not scale correct) grain of wood ? Those are but a few - by no means "small" concessions that ship modelers are commonly accepting. Are they any "better" or "worse" then fact that part of model was created using this or that method ?

 

And when it comes to technology- let us be clear on one thing: more then 90% of modelers will NOT be able to model realistic 3d parts (save for simplest ones) because it calls for years of training, very specific skill set so yes, we do have a new tool and no, it will not be any more accessible and common then sculpting beautiful ornaments using all those great micro tools that are widely available.