HMS Victory by Einstein Taylor - Mamoli - Scale 1:90

[EinsteinTaylor]

Merry Christmas to everyone here.  I am now starting my build log for the Mamoli HMS Victory.  I realize this is one of the most commonly built ships, and many must be thinking, "Yet another Victory" but I have a real passion for this ship and have been patiently waiting to buy this kit for the last 7 years.

 

I chose the Mamoli over the other kits as I couldn't talk the Admiral into the Caldercraft and the Mamoli seemed to yield the nicest build of the 1:90 kits.  As has already been said, the instructions are a train wreck, but useable.  My main concern at this point is simply quantity of materials.  I don't see how there is possibly going to be enough planking and rigging in this box...but we shall see.  

 

My first few pictures are the finished frame and the "false deck"  I tested many different stains and finishes on the deck planking before settling on the one in the pictures.  I was initially hoping to use Minwaxes "weathered oak" finish to give the greyish teak look but it just never would put down enough color.  I instead decided to use the Minwax pre-stain and then a few coats of Danish oil and am actually quite happy with the results.  

 

I used black paint to simulate the caulking and a #78 drill bit to partially drill out tree nails.  Then I used a barbecue skewer, and dipped the tip in black paint to color the tree-nails.

 

Although I used a 3 butt-shift plank on this false deck, I will switch to the 4 butt shift for the actual visible decks.  I know this deck will barely be seen so I just scaled it down a bit.

 

 

My first of many questions in this log:  Should I go ahead and plank the 4 pieces of the upper gun deck(mamoli calls batter deck) before putting the grating and stairs on or do as the instructions say and put them on and then plank around it?

 

[demonborger]

There is plenty of lime wood for the first planking, it isn't as good quality in the revised kit as it was in the earlier kits (the edges aren't as sharp) but everything is laser cut. I think you should buy some 1mmx5mm (or 1x4mm) walnut and double plank the bottom of the hull and trial copper tape to do the coppering, rather than use the green wood that is supplied.

 

The Tanganyika supplied for the decks is beautiful I think, danish oil is a great finish for it.

 

I do think the Mamoil one is nicer than the other 1:90-1:98 kits on the market. For all the faults of the kit design the bulkheads and false keel are very substantial and it holds its shape very nicely.

 

Cutting off the gunport tabs of the metal gunport frames and filing them down to glue to the bulkheads works ok, the material is easy to sand down with the hull. If you put in the supports adequately and use a decent glue then they will stick firm.

[Patrick Haw]

Welcome to the community of HMS Victory builders here at MSW.  And no...there can never be too many Victories on here!  Good luck with your build, you're off to a great start.  Enjoy!

 

Patrick

[Shipyard sid]

Greetings Sean

Welcome to MSW . And here we go with another HMS Victory on the stocks. You will always find advice when you need it for your build. I will follow

Your build with interest. Just enjoy it. DAVID

[gjdale]

Hi Sean,

 

Good to see your build log started. You'll find no shortage of advice here from the many Victory builders. Take your time, read the instructions well ahead of where you are at and plan your next moves carefully. That way you will avoid most of the obvious traps with this kits instructions. If you don't already own a copy, I strongly recommend obtaining "The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships" by C. Nepean Longridge - it is the "bible" for modelling this ship, and you will find it indispensable once you get to the rigging.

 

Re coppering, I chose to use the kit provided "green bits" and found it provided an acceptable result. If I were starting over, I'd probably go the copper tape route as suggested above.

 

Re your question, it's that long ago that I did this step that I can't actually remember how I approached it, but I think your idea of planking the deck before installing the grating and ladders makes sense and would avoid potentially very thin strips around the coamings. Again memory is failing me, but I think you will need to install the false decks before planking them. Hopefully someone with more recent experience of this stage will chime in here.

[EinsteinTaylor]

You were right about the decks having to be put in first. I dry fit all of them and then drew my planking pattern on before gluing. Now the decks are glued on and I am working on planking the main gun deck. That will likely take a couple of days but I will update with pictures along the way.

[EinsteinTaylor]

Spent the weekend planking the gun deck.  After studying pictures of the real thing, I've decided not to do any treenails.  I noticed that on the real thing they were nearly the same color as the planking(as opposed to the black, caulk color most people model them as) and therefore very difficult to see as is, and then when you scale it down by a factor of 90, I realized they would not even be visible.  

 

I kept with the Danish oil finish, and am still liking the look it gives.  I'm pretty sure it is at this point that everyone is saying I should be attaching the cannons.  Can someone confirm that?

 

My plan for tonight is to have another extended instruction reading section and start working out the rest of the roadmap.

 

Early in the planking:

 

Sanded and treated with Minwax Pre-Stain

 

The stern after the Danish oil had dried.

[gjdale]

Looking good Sean,

 

Your decision on treenails was a good one in my opinion. The Danish oil seems to come up very nicely too,

 

Re your canon question, it is the canons that sit on carriages you need to be careful with. Those with only dummy barrels will be able to be fitted into the gun port frames easily from the outside (though I would check the fit of the dummy barrel flange into the metal hole for each frame before fitting to the hull). Those that are on carriages and will later be covered by another deck are the ones to fit early. The instructions suggest that these can be fitted through the gunports from outside. They can't. Now is also a good time to make sure your gunports are set at the right height. I understand that you are going to go ahead with the supplied metal gunport frames, but don't trust the notches on the frames as a height guide. I suggest you make up a gun/carriage assembly and use this to ensure each port is at the right height.

 

Keep up the great work - it's looking really good.

[EinsteinTaylor]

Spent the last couple days working on the grating for the gun decks. I think the biggest thing I have learned being in this forum is that it's ok to rip something out and start over if you're not happy with the look.

 

I didn't like the idea of the grating just sitting on top of deck planking so I cut the holes below where the grating was to go to give a more authentic look. Then I completely screwed up with the grating by building the frame first and trying to fit the grates after the fact. I realized I needed to rip it all out and build the frame around the grates so that the grates would be trimmed off at border pieces instead of "spokes". They may get ripped out one more time to try and square things up a bit but I haven't really decided yet.

 

Progress has been kind of slow. Waiting on my paint kit to show up before I start working on cannons for the main deck. Also been doing some testing with a homemade ropewalk and making my own ropes. Rather promising so far. Found some stock to make stanchions out of and between those and my homemade rope, I will be making handrails for the gun deck ladders.

 

That's probably all that I will get done for the next 10 days or so. For those of you that know the IT world, I am taking my CCIE exam next week so I'll be out of the shipyard for a bit with that.

Edited January 3, 2014 by EinsteinTaylor

[gjdale]

Sounds like you've learned the most important lesson of all Sean - if YOU aren't happy with something, rip it out and do it over, otherwise it will bug you forever!

 

Good move on the gratings. I'm interested in hearing/seeing more about your rope walk. How some pics of the machine and the results? What design did you use?

 

Good luck with your IT exam. Your ship will wait patiently for your return, and so will we.

[EinsteinTaylor]

This is the tutorial I used to make it.

 

 

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/blackpowder-mortar-and-cannon-sponsored-by-seacoast-artillery/tutorial-a-simple-device-for-making-scale-rope/

 

Normally I'm the kind of guy that buys every tool and gadget but I wanted to see if rope making even added any benefit before purchasing anything. The results are actually quite good and seeing as I shouldn't need to make a ton of rope I'm not sure that I will invest in a commercial rope walk.

[gjdale]

Interesting link Sean - looks like a pretty simple solution. But you are going to need "a ton of rope" once you get to the rigging stage - but that's a little way off yet

[EinsteinTaylor]

Attached is a picture of one piece of rope made with my homemade contraption.

[EinsteinTaylor]

And a picture of the handrails using that same homemade rope.

[Patrick Haw]

Hi Sean,

 

I made the same mistake on my Victory, but your middle  upper gun deck ladder is pointed in the wrong direction.  One should descend it looking forward

[EinsteinTaylor]

I saw that same thing when looking at the pictures on the box.  You can't really tell from the plans.  I've been pondering the least destructive way to fix it.

[gjdale]

That depends on how they are fixed in place Sean. If you've used a PVA glue, apply some isopropyl alcohol to the joint using a paint brush. This will soften the glue fairly quickly and you should be able to remove the part with no problems. If you've used a CA type glue, then the same procedure using acetone should do the trick.

[EinsteinTaylor]

So I have what is probably a simple question.  How do I install and rig the upper gun deck cannons?  I'm wanting to install the cannons before putting the quarter and poop decks on but there are no planks and frames yet to rig the cannons too. 

 

Do I just build up the ports and frames as it sits now without the planking, or what would you guys recommend?

[gjdale]

Sean,

 

This is the point where you really need to depart from the sequence in the instructions. Whatever your intention is for finishing this section of deck, you need to do it now, and fix the cannons in place. Personally, I would not bother attaching rigging to those that will be out of view once the quarter and poop decks go on, but that's your choice.

[EinsteinTaylor]

Totally understand that Grant and that is where I'm looking for some tips.

 

It seems that regardless of whether or not I rig the hidden cannons(which I would only be doing for practice) I would still have difficulties rigging those ones that are visible under the walkways.

 

I've got all the carriages painted up and will be assembling one soon so that I can start working on gun port placement.

[gjdale]

Okay Sean, not sure if I understand your question about "frames and planking". Are you referring to gun port frames and inner bulwark planking? If so, you will need to install both of these before installing the guns. If you are going to rig the gun tackle, you will need to provide your own blocks as the kit does not provide for rigging any of the guns. You'll need 2mm blocks for this and some eye bolts and rigging thread to suit. If I've misunderstood your question, can you rephrase it please?

[EinsteinTaylor]

I think we're talking about the same thing now.  My question was, as the gun deck sits now, there is nothing to secure the guns to(other than the deck).  To line everything up I will obviously have to install the gun ports, but even that will not allow me to secure rigging or anything.

 

I think you hit what I am looking for with the "inner bulwark planking".  Can that be installed without having any of the hull planking in place?

 

As far as blocks go, I've been making 2mm blocks from the "Model ships for dummies" method, and I will soon be making hooks, eye bolts, etc...Have everything needed but time right now.

 

If I understand you, I need to just install the gun port frames, and inner bulwark planking...ignoring the hull planking for now.  Then install the guns.  From there pick back up with installing the decks and then moving on to planking the hulls.

 

Sorry to be so confused here, this just seems like one of those areas that screwing up will be really really easy, and really really difficult to recover from.

[Patrick Haw]

Sean,

 

I'm not familiar with the Mamoli kit, my Victory is Caldercraft, but I imagine the construction sequence is similar.  Before you start installing guns I think you're going to have to plank the hull, first and second planking, then install and plank the inner bulwarks and locate the gunports.  Only then can you set the guns in their proper locations and go ahead and rig them.  As I said, I'm not a Mamoli expert, but I hope this helps

 

Patrick

[gjdale]

Sean,

 

Patrick is right, you'll need to complete the outer hull planking before you install the guns, otherwise they will get in the way while you're trying to plank. If you insist on using those metal gunport frames, you should be able to locate your gunport frames correctly by dry-fitting the decks temporarily and using a made up canon as a height check. Just remember to make allowance for the thickness of the deck planking and you should be okay. Hope this makes sense.

[Patrick Haw]

Sean,

 

One other thought on this...When you do the hull planking there's going to be a lot of moving the ship around, turning it upside down, etc. Also there's going to be lots and lots and lots of sanding dust flying around, getting into everything.  If you've installed and rigged the guns before planking the hull you run a real risk of damaging the guns while planking, and clogging up all your beautiful rigging work with sanding dust.

 

Patrick

[EinsteinTaylor]

Thanks guys! To be honest it never even occurred to me that I could just dry fit those decks. I will take a shot at that when I get back into town this weekend.

 

Another funny thing I've learned with this build log is how many things you see that need fixed when you look at a picture.

 

Last night in one of the pictures I saw some excess wood filler that needed sanded down that I didn't catch with the naked eye.

 

Also, I fixed the backwards ladder that Patrick kindly pointed out.

[demonborger]

Your next move must be to shape the 5x5mm walnut into the support beams for the upper deck. That will give you an approximation of the deck height. Dry fit only at this stage and mark the deck height. You could glue them now but it would make installing the guns a bit more crowded.

After you have market the deck height (including the tanganyka planks) then use that to help you measure where the top of the bulwark will go, next leave a 8mm gap (as the plans show) and begin planking downwards. Don't touch the upper bulwark again until after you install the upper deck and the second layer of it will lock the deck in.
 
For the gunports remember it is easier to not cut the wood used to support the top and bottom of the frame, instead just leave a gap of the required mm from the plank above (using a dry fitted wood strip to mark the gap).

Not the clearest picture but it should help illustrate what I am saying. Currently I am working back up with the second layer after planking down with the first, when that layer reaches above the upper gun deck then I will sand it smooth and paint it, then install the guns, then fill in the planking for the bulwarks and plank upwards. The hard part is making sure your top bulwark plank is marked correctly. For the gaps I just used strip wood of appropriate thickness nail temporarily in place.


Be careful with the distance markings as the ship is very curved in places.



You can approach it how you see fit, I have probably made innumerable errors but the overall idea seems to be ok.

[EinsteinTaylor]

Thanks Demon! That's exactly the help I was looking for!

[EinsteinTaylor]

I can't tell from your picture, did you go ahead and build up the stern gallery portions? I have my frames shaped and the decks dry fitted.

 

It kind of looks like the planking stops before getting to the gallery but wanted to be sure.

 

This is sure a PITA having to build around this issue.

[EinsteinTaylor]

After a couple more rereads of the instructions I realized the stern gallery does indeed have to be built up so started working on that tonight.

 

The red fabric you see is my attempt to color match the curtains in Nelson's cabin and make curtains on my own kit.

 

I'm hoping that once the windows are glazed that you will be able to pick up just a hint of the color and get the effect.

Edited January 13, 2014 by EinsteinTaylor