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How does one know what needs to be served and how much


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Several Questions:

 

1 - What are the rules of the amount of serving a line/rope?

 

2 - How do you know which vertical line on a ship needs to be served, and how much? 1/2? 3/4?

 

I know it depends on the type of ship, what country is it from and what century. But are there some general rules and are there any books available. I looked in some of my books but there is no details. Several people on this site mention Steele (sp).

 

I have looked at many models on this site and others and it gets confusing. I like to be accurate about all the models I make.

 

Thank you,

Marc

Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman

 

Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better"

 

Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).

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"Worm and Parcel with the Lay

 Turn and Serve the other Way".

Pg 28, 1964 Edition of the American Merchant Seaman's Manual.

 

More to Serving than just the serving, you Worm and Parcel to fill the low places with small stuff. cover the line with wound canvas strips and then do the serving..The Lay of the line should not be prominent when done.

 

jud

Edited by jud
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While I don't know what the rules are for serving, I can recommend a few books that might be helpful.

 

The first two works I would suggest are The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War 1625-1860, by James Lees and David Steel's Elements of Mastmaking, Sailmaking and Rigging (also published as The Elements and Practice of Rigging and Seamanship). 

 

Steel's work was originally written around 1794, and describes the British practices of the time.  His book is freely available online here: http://hnsa.org/doc/steel/index.htm.  Admittedly, much of his language can be difficult to comprehend, but I would say it is one of the most useful.  Notably, he lists the size and length of every spar, rope and line for all ships, from a cutter to a first-rate

 

Lees's work is not freely available, but was written with the modeller, not the shipwright, in mind, and provides a comparative description of rigging at different times.  His work is well illustrated, and provides some information as to the correct sizes of parts, but not as detailed as Steel's.

 

After these works, Lennarth Petersson's Rigging Period Ship Models is helpful, as it shows where every rope is supposed to go, and can be a quick way to identify the components described in more detail by the first two works.  However, he does not include any written description, and this work only describes a frigate of around 1800 (but could be applied, with caution and referring to the previous two works, to other ships of a similar timeframe).

 

Hopefully this at least gives you some suggestions for where to start looking, and I'm sure someone else will come along and provide an answer.

Brandon

Current project: HMS Pandora (1779) CAD build

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The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War 1625-1860, by James Lees and

David Steel's Elements of Mastmaking, Sailmaking and Rigging

 

After these works, Lennarth Petersson's Rigging Period Ship Models is helpful,

 

Hopefully this at least gives you some suggestions for where to start looking, and I'm sure someone else will come along and provide an answer.

Thank you for the info. I have Steel's and Peterson books. My models are all Dutch so I look under Continental. Presently building the Royal Dutch Mary which is a yacht and I have been looking at the plans from the Statenjacht Utrecht and they are very similar. Not much changed from 1600 to 1700.

 

Steel's book can be difficult to read so I will give it a try again.

 

Thank you

Marc

Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman

 

Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better"

 

Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).

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Marc, also try Marquardt's Eighteenth Century Rigs and Rigging as he also includes European detail in addition to Steel's tables.  With Steel the tables are difficult but I am starting to get my head around them.  From what I have determined via Steel and  Lee's the Masting and Rigging of English Ships... for English ships at least, the leading leg of every set of shrouds (i.e most forward of each of the Fore, Main and Mizzen) were served all the way down and the after leg of these, and all other shroud pairs were served  about 8 feet, or 1/4 of the length. where the fit around the mast.

 

I hope this helps?

 

cheers

 

Pat

If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!
Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch)

Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350)

Built:          Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64)

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The leading leg of every set of shrouds (i.e most forward of each of the Fore, Main and Mizzen) were served all the way down and the after leg of these, and all other shroud pairs were served  about 8 feet, or 1/4 of the length. where the fit around the mast.

 

I hope this helps?

Pat;

 

I have done the serving where they fit around the mast.

Shrouds: most forward leg of each pair I understand.

 

Other question.

On the Mary, I have 2 pairs of shrouds. So 4 total. From left to right | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 |

no. 4 is the leading leg of the set (3 | 4), I serve that all the way down.

Would no. 2 also be a leading leg of the set (1 | 2)?

 

The book is on my wish list on Amazon.

 

Marc

Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman

 

Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better"

 

Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).

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Marc,

It's not the fore most shroud of each pair.  It is only the fore most shroud for that mast on each side, port and starboard.  The purpose of the serving was to reduce chafe from the sails and their rigging against the shrouds.

Henry

 

Laissez le bon temps rouler ! 

 

 

Current Build:  Le Soleil Royal

Completed Build Amerigo Vespucci

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From The Square Rigger: Google; worm parcel serve and you can find the full post.

 

To worm, parcel, and serve rigging is an age old technique that was used to
protect hemp and in later years, wire rigging from the elements of the harsh
marine environment and to help protect against the sailors unrelenting enemy
called chafe.

 

Not sure about just the forward shroud getting the treatment, seems it would be a false savings of effort and resources that would result in more frequent replacement of unprotected shrouds. On military ships with the overmanning needed to fight the ship, sailors needed to be kept busy, would expect much worming parceling and serving, canvas being sewn around lifelines and painted, fancy line-work and Turks Heads everywhere they could be placed and awnings with braided edges.

jud

Edited by jud
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Shrouds were not unprotected.  Protection from rot and water penetration was achieved by tarring.  I would think that, especially om military ships, extra worming, parcelling and serving would not have been done because it costs money.  Ships captains were held to strict allowances for stores and replacements.  I would also tend to believe that most would be, like most sailors, practical, prudent, and conservative.

Henry

 

Laissez le bon temps rouler ! 

 

 

Current Build:  Le Soleil Royal

Completed Build Amerigo Vespucci

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I agree Henry, the foremost shrouds were served and the rest simply tarred with Stoholm Tar or the like according to several sources.   The rules which drives the 'guidance' as stated by Steel, Lees, Marquardt etc, which is what Marc was asking about, state clearly that it was only the leading shroud leg of each leading (foremost) shroud pair per mast where chafe was likely.  That said, anywhere where chafe was likely from other rigging, sails etc would also have been further protected in some manner, usually rope serving or, as seen in some merchant and smaller vessels, using baggeywrinkles. 

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited by BANYAN

If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!
Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch)

Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350)

Built:          Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64)

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To Banyan and Popeye2sea;

 

Thank you both for the description. It is very clear and the reason for doing this. Also, after I created a thread on this I looked it up in the book, "The ships of Abel Tasman". In the book on page 68 it clearly shows that the first leg of the forward shroud is served.

 

Even though, the Mary is a yacht and her sails do not really touch any of the rigging, I thought of doing it anyway as a practice, once I start on the ships of Tasman. First the war yacht - Heemskerck and then the fluyt - Zeehaen. This will be a couple of years away. Before all this, I will do my first scratch which is the Statenjacht - Utrecht.

 

Marc

Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman

 

Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better"

 

Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).

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Hi Marc, the Utrecht reconstruction does not have serving on the shrouds (see Ab Hoving/Cor Emke's book).  Although this reconstruction probably has synthetic rope, you are correct in that the need to serve the first shroud is not present, the chaffing is not there. 

 

A quick review of 'Valkenisse' by Rob Napier indicates no servings on the shrouds but the actual ships would have had it on the foremost shroud of each mast.  For the model, he took his cue from contemporary models which used limited servings, and no serving on the shrouds.  For Valkenisse, the main stay, the main preventer stay, the catharpins, probably the fore stay an fore dpreventer were served.   Perhaps a few other minor items were served too. 

 

So, what is your pleasure?  If your scale is large, I recommend serving the foremost shrouds.  If small, then don't.  BTW, forget about the worming and parceling on a model.  These add too much thickness.  IF however, the serving is lumpy, you might consider using very small worming thread before serving.

 

Above all, have fun~!                      Duff

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Duff,

Thanks for the tips. I had the same thought about worming and parceling. Not on the scale I am working on. Too many bumps.

 

Happy building.................Marc

Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman

 

Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better"

 

Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).

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My quick answer would be to work out how for different positions of yards, booms, sails etc. the respective running rigging would come into contact with the standing rigging. This contact should be persistent, not only occasional. These contact zones would protected by serving.

 

Some of the protective measures seem to have been only temporary, such es e.g. padding on the lanyards between the dead-eyes, and was removed e.g. when in harbour. This is why it is rarely seen on models (of the time).

 

wefalck

wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

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