emergency steering chains

[GTM]

I’m about to install the ”emergency steering chains” on my Santisima Trinidad from OcCre

 

The drawings and instructions of the ST are not clear on how to “terminate” these chains.

The “only visual” termination (on the box itself) shows that they are just “ending”  ..

 

 

I can't believe that it should be installed this way.. Anyone ?

[wq3296]

Greetings GTM,

 

Good question. I agree with you that the way the photo depicts the chain ends does not seem correct. I checked Longridge's book on the Victory. She is a contemporary of the ST. The photo in the book shows a separate chain on each side of the rudder head that is supported similar to the ST photo. However, there is a line at the end of each chain which enters a hole in the counter just under the transom. These entrance holes are located about 7/8 the distance from the rudder center line to the edge of the transom. The rudder had a spare hole in the head that could accept an emergency tiller in the event that the main tiller was disabled. The emergency chain/line arrangement was used in the event that the helm, or tillers, or even the rudder head within the ship, were disabled. The rudder could still be moved by pulling on the lines that were inside the ship. I expect that large ships like ST and Victory would require some kind of tackle to pull on the those lines. In the absence of other information, I would rig your rudder the same way as on the Victory.

 

wq3296 

[AntonyUK]

Hi GTM.

Found this in The Arming and fitting of English Ships of Ware 1600 - 1815

 

Looks like they just end on a ring bolt.

 

Regards Antony.

[testazyk]

I agree with WQ but to be honest when I did my Victory I thought that looked as strange as what they show on the ST box so I ran the chains to the bottom of the stern gun ports as if they could pull them through the ports if necessary.  

[jud]

I would think the main reason for those chains was to tether the rudder if it went adrift and using them for supplementary steering an afterthought. To use those chains to steer by would require lots of rigging, men over the side and men in boats to un-thread the chain and lead it out at a usable angle from the rudder so it could be moved, then rigged with the aid of men still aboard before it could be used as part of a backup steering system,' not a fast evolution'. Unless the chains and rudder were pre-rigged before battle, the battle would be long over and the colors struck before the rudder was back under control if it had been disabled by damage if not pre-rigged.

jud

Edited September 13, 2014 by jud

[GTM]

Thank you all for the input on this one..

It seems that i now have 2 options to choose from 

[Ian B]

This has given me another idea to add to my build... quite an easy addition of detail to any build.

 

thanks Ian

[GTM]

Antony and the "The Arming and fitting of English Ships of Ware 1600 - 1815" has convinced me.

So for now I decided to go for the "box solution"... 

 

 

 

....

 

[jud]

Anyone who has worked with chains to lift with or secure a load can look at the model and see a problem. The chain as rigged will, with movement of the ship and rudder move, the length of the chain hanging from the most inboard ring to the rudder and will slowly cause the remainder of the chain to work over the inboard and center rings until there is enough of a bite inboard to drag the remainder of the chain through the two inboard rings, ending up with small bites on each side of the center ring and one large bite between the inboard ring and rudder. That bite would probably break the inboard ring first or pull it out of the hull, wouldn't take long after the chain was being supported only by the inboard ring and rudder. It would probably continue until all rings were gone, leaving the chain hanging from the rudder until it also failed. As neat as that chain hanging across the stern may be, it is not something that would be done more than once. If you want those chains, then at least lash them at each ring to prevent the chain from shifting.

jud

Edited September 14, 2014 by jud

[GTM]

Hej Jud,

 

I have to agree with you that it doesn’t “feel right” how these chains are fixed..

It would be very nice to have some visual guidance (picture/drawing) about how these “emergency steering chains” originally where rigged..

 

Anyone ?

[WackoWolf]

What Jud has said is 100% right on, they would have cause more damage then they would have done good. Maybe someone can put some light on how this should have been other than just looking nice. Just my 2 cents.

[wq3296]

All,

 

See Longridge's book, Plate 35, re: Victory. Plate 35 is an actual photo of the Victory and the chain is not festooned across the transom and hung with rings as shown in GMT's photos. Note that this is a photo of the actual ship. The caption states that the "chains provide some control of the rudder should the tiller be put out of action." I suppose it would prevent loss of the rudder if it were to become unshipped, but that is not the primary purpose. I would tend to build based on an actual ship rather than another model.

 

wq3296

[GTM]

Hej WQ,

Unfortunately i don’t own a copy of ”Longridge’s book” is it possible for you to take a picture of plate 35 ?

[wefalck]

My understanding was that these chains where there to catch the rudder in case it became unshipped. The festooning has the purpose to reduce the jerk, when the rudder is being dragged along. The chain would be lightly secured to the first pair of rings. Breaking these ropes takes up some of the energy that otherwise would be transfered to a single pair of rings.

[testazyk]

That is some nice work GTM!!

[wq3296]

Greetings Wefalck,

 

On the bigger ships, it is hard to imagine how such a large structure could be unshipped and then fall away. On Victory, the rudder head extends all the way up to the Ward Room, where the top was used as a table to hold drinks. Accordingly, the rudder extends through the after most portion of the lower gun deck where the tiller and steering system are located. In order for the rudder to be lifted clear and drop out of the gudgeons assumes that the tiller and steering tackle have broken away - certainly possible. Of course, this is my opinion and I am open to other points of view. However, according to Longridge, the chains on Victory were for emergency steering.

 

WQ3296

[Tadeusz43]

Chains arrangement on existing historic vessels:

HMS Victory and Danish fregate Jylland.

 

Tadeusz

 

My models:

From kits

Vasa, HMS Victory, Le Solei Royale, Friesland

From scratch

HMS Warrior 1860, Esplanade, Grosse Yacht

Norman’s ship, HMS Speedy, La Royale

Peter von Danzig

Polacca XVII cent.

Current project:

SS Savannah 1818

[davyboy]

It is unlikely that the rudder could unship. A wooden lock was fitted below the upper pintle and gudgeon to prevent the rudder rising upward,this can be seen on the drawing on page 130 of Goodwins' Construction and Fitting. Unfortunately this appears to be missing on the above photo of the H M S Victory.

 

Dave

[dafi]

The loss of the rudder was one of the reasons for the loss of the HMS St. George (1785) at X-Mess 1811 at Thorsminde.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_St_George_(1785)

 

The rudder was found some 200 years later and is in restoration at the museum. Has anybody seen it or has clear pictures? Does it have a turbulence groove?

 

XXXDAn

 

PS: THe german wikipedia is much more detailed:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_St._George_(1785)

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Defence_(1763)

Also the museums site is quite interesting:

http://www.vragmus.dk/uk-version/marin-arch-uk/rudder.htm

http://www.vragmus.dk/uk-version/index-uk.htm

see "Photos and find two of the rudder :-)

http://www.vragmus.dk/uk-version/marin-arch-uk/methods.htm

Edited September 16, 2014 by dafi

[wq3296]

Dafi,

 

It seems from the Wiki article that the ship had battle damage, so it is probable that the loss of the original rudder was also a result of battle damage. The article says that the temporary rudder installed to replace the original rudder was lost, too. So what? We all agree that rudders could fall off for various reasons. We are trying to figure how to rig the chains since their main function is to steer the ship if the steering system goes kaput.

 

wq3296 

[Force9]

I'll chime in here... Firstly, we should properly denote this rig as the "Rudder Pendant" tackle to stage any discussion.  

 

Let's not assume this gear is only for emergency steering. The 1828 Webster's dictionary includes a definition: "The rudder-pendant is a rope made fast to the rudder by a chain, to prevent the loss of the rudder when unshipped."  There are many documented instances of the rudder being unshipped by a storm or grounding... Oftentimes it was the pintles and gudgeons that were broken or wrenched loose causing the rudder to break away.  Admiral d'Estaing's flagship lost her rudder in a violent gale off the Chesapeake during the American Revolution.

 

It is most likely that the rudder pendant served ALL of the aforementioned purposes. Lawrence Mott in his "The Development of the Rudder: A Technological Tale"  notes that this tackle "Prevented the rudder from swinging too far to one side, helped control the rudder in rough weather, and acted as emergency steering in case the tiller broke."  

 

I would think that the need to use the pendant tackle for emergency steering was the least common purpose... Certainly ships like the Victory and Constitution had the ability to insert a replacement tiller on the rudder head and/or jury rig new steering tackle inside the ship in cases where the main steering tackle was damaged.  Resorting to exterior rudder pendant tackle would be extreme - likely only done when the rudder head itself was damaged and the rest of the rudder was still intact.  Having this tackle in place to prevent the loss of an unshipped rudder was probably much more useful to seafarers back in the day... Much better to be able to retrieve and repair the existing rudder than to make one from scratch when away from a dockyard.  The flimsy replacement made for the St. George ultimately failed in the midst of the next storm.

 

The lower portion of the tackle (below the counter) is the "rudder chain", the remainder is the "pendant" of rope that is typically led up to the mizzen chains and tied off around a deadeye or an eyebolt on the channel.  I think the restored Victory has it led up through a hole in the channel and secured with a stopper knot (at least when I last visited her in '97). When rigging the rudder chain to the spectacle plate on any model, attention should be paid to the arc of the rudder to make sure it can swing - but not too far. 

 

In the rare case where the pendant tackle was used to control the rudder, it is my understanding that the crew commonly set up a spare spar as an outrigger and passed the pendant line through a block on the end and back through an open port so that the pendant didn't rub against the side of the ship and the mechanical leverage was maximized. 

 

Evan

Edited September 18, 2014 by Force9

[HIPEXEC]

I researched that very issue when installing the rudder on my USS Constituion. What I found was the chains ran through the hull into the gundeck for emegency steering.

[wq3296]

Greetings Hipexec,

 

Bingo. Of course emergency steering is the main reason for the chains. In the previous long dissertation on this subject, the reason given for chains is to recover a rudder that might become unshipped if the pintles/gudgeons should break off. My question is, what good is a recovered rudder if the pintles/gudgeons are broken? Further, why have such an elaborate system of chains just to recover the rudder? It would seem that just a length of chain attached to the rudder and a stout ring in the stern would do the job. In my opinion, common sense would dictate that such an elaborate system of chains and rope would be for a much higher purpose (emergency steering) than just supporting the rudder if it ever became unshipped.

 

wq3296

[dafi]

I think Evan summoned the case nicely. The most important was the saving of the rudder. Even though Dave mentions the lock, history is full of broken or lost rudders - another example is the Cutty Sark in race with the Thermopylae, where she lost it in a storm and the need of several days to fix an emergency rudder under these conditions is still one of the great stories of bravery in seamanship.

 

In my understanding the first purpose was to keep the rudder nearby the ship to recover the material. The chain is usually tied close to the stern, keeping the chain out of the water and out of the way and providing by the ties a kind of breaking point to give more line to keep the floating rudder as clear of the hull as possible.

 

Once recovered it for sure was a first option to be used as steering help, but for reasons of lever forces, it was handled by some spars that were set outside as Evan described. This and many more options are nicely shown in the Harland´s Seamanship. Also Nares, Sheet Anchor and Ketch Anchor etc have big sections about replacing the rudder, so it was a well known and especially dangerous issue.

 

Emergency systems contained the use of gun-carriages, barrels, old sails - an interesting and very exciting topic :-)

 

XXXDAn

Edited September 18, 2014 by dafi

[dafi]

Here are some pictures aut of my Harland Seamanship, showing the steering by the chains and other stories.

 

XXXDAn

[jud]

dafi; Thanks, those pages are showing solutions that are in agreement with the laws of physics we are all forced to obey. They show the rigging needed to provided the forces needed to turn a rudder. Those forces are applied in the proper direction and show the needed moment arms in place to replace tillers or sectors. The drags shown are rigged to work and also show how the rudder pendents would have needed to be rigged so they could be used in an emergency steering rig. Notice that the attachment points on the rudder itself or its replacement are not at or close to the rudder post, the idea was to turn the thing, not break it.
jud

Edited September 19, 2014 by jud

[wq3296]

Dafi,

 

You lost me. What is your point? If you are saying that the primary use of the chains was to facilitate emergency steering, I agree. 

 

wq3296

[dafi]

Before facilitatied emergency steering one should retrieve the rudder ;-)

 

XXXDAn

 

PS: This way of steering with the pendants imho is only applicable if pintles are ok and only the rudder head (or the tiller including the spare one) is broken.

Edited September 19, 2014 by dafi

[jud]

"Bingo", dafi !   :)  :P

jud

Edited September 19, 2014 by jud

[dafi]

Just found these wonderful pictures and that add to the topic of lost rudders as a small flavor :-)

 

 

HMS 'Trafalgar' losing her rudder-head in a north-easterly gale off Malta, 1 February 1852; PAI0863

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/150803.html

 

HMS 'Trafalgar' sailing into Malta Harbour with loss of her rudder head after a gale, 9 February 1852; PAI0864

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/150804.html

 

XXXDAn

Edited September 28, 2014 by dafi