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The Bitumen Experiment


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34 replies to this topic

#1
ChrisLBren

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Hi Group,

 

I've been playing around with my typical finish -3 Coats Pure Tung Oil (first one cut 50 percent by mineral spirits) and I've added Bitumen to the top coat and here are the results - thanks to Dimitry on the Russian forums for giving me this tip to age wood.  No simulated caulking added here - just wood sanded to 600 and then finish applied

 

This is the finish I will apply to my next build - La Jacinthe in 1/36th.  Ive added some photos to compare this new technique to my usual on Confederacy.  

 

Your thoughts as always are appreciated,

Chris

 

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • Bitumen Close Up.JPG
  • Bitumen.JPG

Edited by ChrisLBren, 12 September 2014 - 04:37 PM.

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#2
NMBROOK

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That looks great Chris :) Alex has a post on there describing the technique he uses but the translator makes it almost comical to read :D As well as 'ageing' it does seem to bring detail out,similarly to a wash in plastic model building.I assume you are referring to Mr Shevelev,the ageing on his 74 looks the business.Incidentally his 74 took a silver at Haydock Park IMBS in the UK this summer(second only to another Russian entry)

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel


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#3
Gaetan Bordeleau

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The Russians introduced ourselves to the ‘’bitume de judée’’.  The first time I saw it was on the French forum. Alex talked about his receipe containing the following ingredients.

 

Beeswax: Slows drying time, soften the color  and more transparent.  Mixing it with the

               bitumen    allows beewax molecules to bind  and make the asphalt more neutral

paraffin: help beewax or could be white wax candle

asphalt:   Was used by the egyptians for embalming   Oil soluble

pine resin:  Gives plastic properties  and can form a varnish if mixed with alchool

natural soap:  probably for the oils in the soap

turpentine:  Fluidity  and solubility of the mix

siccative:   shorter drying time, max 10% of total mix.

 

An easier version can effectively be done by mixing tung oil and bitumen. Depending of the bitumen solubility, an agent can be added to help to incorporate with tung oil. As long as bitumen is not applied in a too thick coat, there will be no problem to dry.

 

On the picture, concentrating on the first  3 tops ones, bare wood, tung oil, bitumen. Another way to apply it is with beewax + turpentine odorless to give it some flexibility and ease in application and add bitumen and then some polishing is needed (but this method is better suited for wood cabinet).  Wax is easy to apply on large surface. but when too many corners, it is a less interesting option.

Attached Thumbnails

  • 1.jpg

Edited by Gaetan Bordeleau, 13 September 2014 - 11:57 AM.

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#4
JerseyCity Frankie

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Just out of curiosity, what commercial product were you using for the Bitumen? Is it even available commercially?


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#5
mitchel

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I assume you are referring to Mr Shevelev,the ageing on his 74 looks the business.Incidentally his 74 took a silver at Haydock Park IMBS in the UK this summer(second only to another Russian entry)

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

 

I live near Haydock and I forgot about this show. Such a pity. I know you posted the date earlier in the year here.

Do you know of any pictures that were taken?


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#6
ChrisLBren

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Mitchel - this thread is about finishes not shows.  JerseyCity - i bought this Bitumen thru Ebay UK -not sure if its avail in the US. Gaetan your expert advice/input is always appreciated !

 

And Nigel - yes you are spot on -  Dimitry's  74 model and his advice are my influence on this finish. The Bitumen works as a wash.   Just a few kinks to work out - but I'm close.....


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#7
NMBROOK

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What I did glean from Alex was that,other than the fact he uses a waterbased stain to make the shades of pear much more uniform(the orange hue on Cumberland)prior to applying anything else,he applies beeswax first before using the Bitumen solution.Applying the solution without reducing the absorbency of the Pear can result in a very patchy finish.This is similar to what you are doing Chris by applying two coats of Tung oil before adding the bitumen.I wish you all the best at getting this process 'nailed' Chris,the effect is well worth it ;)

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

 

P.S.Mitchel,the only photos I have seen are of the Russian 'road trip' ,lots of pictures of sights,not so many of the models.


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#8
ChrisLBren

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Thanks Nigel - to get on my soap box - I feel that finish and carvings make a ship model.  The one thing i learned very well on Confederacy - is to thin your first coat of oil 50/50 with spirits which will set you up for a uniform finish (as oil does not penetrate a hard wood like Pear uniformly).  I learned this thru trial and error.   There are many things I'd love to do over with Confederacy (one being not relying on Chucks resin carvings for the human figures on my stern !) - but thats another story - (a #11 Exacto and some courage - anyone can carve with enough persistence.) 

 

I'm formulating a very distinct approach on the next model - thats why I've picked a simple but beautiful schooner as a test bed for my ideas.  As a novice oil painter - a Sepia wash actually might do the same thing as Bitumen - its worth a test to compare the results.

 

Stay tuned,

Chris


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#9
Gaetan Bordeleau

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Chris, I would not  do carving with  an exacto, in fact I do not use anymore this kind of blade.

I use almost exclusively sclalpel 5A with a handle, blue plastic covered and blade 11.

When you use scalpel, you find that an exacto does not cut.

 

Peaple say that scalpel blades breaks too easily. In fact, it is true, but when you  learn that this kind of blade is not made to be use in torsion, then you rarely breaks it.

 

Also, carving is a strange world, hand are made to do carving and feel shapes. Of course you need to practice, but when you try an you see what you can achieve, then a little miracle happens, you beleive that you can do it, and then you carve it.


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#10
ChrisLBren

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Thanks for the advice Gaetan - I used an Exacto #11 for all of these carvings on the quarter galleries - you are a master - ill give your blades a try on the next build which will have much less carving than this one.  

Attached Thumbnails

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  • La-Jacinthe-_6-320x240.jpg

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#11
mitchel

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Mitchel - this thread is about finishes not shows.  

Sorry I asked. I will be sure to post in the right thread next time.



#12
ChrisLBren

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No worries Mitchel - this thread somehow turned into a carving post !  Take care,

Chris


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#13
mtaylor

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So are you going with the bitumen, Chris???? (pushes back on topic :) )


Mark

"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me


Current Build:

Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0

Past Builds:
Triton Cross-Section
USS Constellaton (kit bashed to 1854 Sloop of War (Gallery) Build Log
Wasa (Gallery)


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#14
NMBROOK

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I shall ask the million dollar question Chris :o Once you have this technique sussed,do you not fancy using it on your Confederacy?In theory as your model is finished in Tung oil already,it would be an ideal candidate.

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel


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#15
ChrisLBren

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Ha! - yes I will use Bitumen - but not on this build - I just want to finally finish Confederacy after almost 5 years in !


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#16
dgbot

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You have piqued my interest and curiosity. This should prove to be a very nice build with a lot to learn and to have fun. But can you by bitumen here in the states and is there an alternative?
David B

Work in progress USS Maine in cardstock.http://modelshipworl...rd/#entry220003

Completed Blockade runner Teazer http://modelshipworl...ck/#entry175967

Completed  The Monitor Lehigh http://modelshipworl...el/#entry203680

Completed Kingston Class MCVD http://modelshipworl...gs-in-progress/

 


#17
normanh

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Guys - I wouldnt use bitumen if I was you its simply not uv stable, I realise its in small amouts but the thinner the bitumen film the shorter life it will have. Bitumen needs to be protected from surface oxidation. In commercial applications this can be very relevant. I am a former bitumen chemist with a stack of text on the subject based on data published by Shell. In a thin film application it can reduce to dust with light esposure, grades are usually a straight PEN grade typically represented by the numbers 25 to 300 or an oxidised Grade based on two numbers such as 95/25 these numbers relfect the test reults in simple mechincal tests used in industry.

 

Norman


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Norman

 

 

Current build Trumpeter Arizona 1:200 with White Ensign PE and a Nautilus Wooden Deck.

Built Caldercraft Convulsion, HM Brig Badger and HMS Snake.

Awaiting - Zvelda HMS Dreadnought planning to get the Pontos Deck and PE Upgrades, Panart 1:23 Gun deck model and couple of the cannon kits Manatu - French siege mortar, and American coastal cannon.


#18
dgbot

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What would you advise as a substitute?

David B


Work in progress USS Maine in cardstock.http://modelshipworl...rd/#entry220003

Completed Blockade runner Teazer http://modelshipworl...ck/#entry175967

Completed  The Monitor Lehigh http://modelshipworl...el/#entry203680

Completed Kingston Class MCVD http://modelshipworl...gs-in-progress/

 


#19
Gaetan Bordeleau

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Norman,

 

I am surely not an expert about bitumen, but here is how I use it. About UV stability, I do not think that it does matter simply because models are intended to see the sun. The key is the quantity, effectively, too small quantity, it will not be enough apparent and too thick it will not dry. Usually bitumen is applied mainly on the hull, on large surface.  Bee wax is added in the mixture, so oxidation, I guess, is  not acting that much.

Bee wax has been used for centuries for wood cabinetry. In this case bitumen is added to this mixture to simulate time aging and I like the effect.


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#20
normanh

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Just passing on my knowledge and experience, bitumen is a wonderful substance but needs to be used with care and can vary enormously depending on source. I can sugest no alternatives. I have no experience of mixing with beeswax, paraffin wax yes.

 

Norman


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Norman

 

 

Current build Trumpeter Arizona 1:200 with White Ensign PE and a Nautilus Wooden Deck.

Built Caldercraft Convulsion, HM Brig Badger and HMS Snake.

Awaiting - Zvelda HMS Dreadnought planning to get the Pontos Deck and PE Upgrades, Panart 1:23 Gun deck model and couple of the cannon kits Manatu - French siege mortar, and American coastal cannon.





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