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British official Report of the Prince de Neufchatel vs Endymion battle


uss frolick

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Here's a treat from the stacks. The Endymion was a 40 gun, 24-pounder frigate of the Royal Navy. She would go on to fight the US Frigate president in January, 1815. She mounted twenty-six long 24-pounders on her gun deck, with twenty-two 32-pounder carronades and one shifting brass 18-pounder on her spar deck.

 

From the PRO in Kew, Reference numbers ADMI/507, XC 22779A

 

"[To:] Honorable Alexander Cochrane, K.B.

Admiral of the Red, and

Commander in Chief, , Etc, etc,

 

Superb at Halifax

15th November, 1814.

 

Sir,

 

It is with extreme regret I do myself the honor to transmit to you herewith, a copy of a letter and its enclosures dated the 11th Ultimo, which I have received from Captain Hope of His Majesty's Ship Endymion detailing the particulars of a gallant but unsuccessful attack made by the boats of that ship under the direction of Lieutenants Hawkins, Armond, and Fanshaw on  an enemy privateer, under circumstances so trying and difficult as to reflect the highest credit on the officers and men engaged in the occasion and whilst  I deplore with Captain Hope the loss of so many valuable lives it is a consolation to [illegible] the spirit with which the attack was renewed affords an ample proof off the determined coolness and bearing of the officers and men, and that valor of His Majesty's Subjects was ... displayed.

 

... I have the honor to be,

 

Sir, your most obedient humble servant

 

Henry Hotham, Rear Admiral"

 

Hope's Letter:

 

"Copy, Henry Hotham, Rear Admiral

 

His Majesty's Ship Endymion

Off Nantucket, 11th October, 1814.

 

Sir,

 

I have the honor of informing you that yesterday returning to my station, a ship and a schooner were discovered to the Westward of Nantucket nearly becalmed under the low land endeavoring to pass between that island and the southern shoals. From the offing we continued to chase them until evening. The wind then entirely left us as it had previously done with the vessels in shore, who had made no progress whatever.

 

I sent all boats under the command of Lieutenants Hawkins, Armond and Fanshaw. In approaching the ship, an alarm was fired; the boats had been previously  rowing up under a shoal and had not felt the effects of a rapid tide which they almost instantaneously became exposed to;  the second barge, in taking the station assigned by Lieutenant Hawkins, on the schooner's starboard bow, having her larboard oars shot away instantaneously was swept by the stream athwart the first barge, thereby all the boats became entangled, and it is with extreme concern I acquaint you that the attack was in consequence at the moment was only partially made. Notwithstanding this disadvantage at the first  .... and every exertion that human skill and determined bravery could devise was resorted to , to revive the contest and they succeeded in again getting alongside, but not in the positions intended; their failure therefore is to be ascribed in the first instant to the velocity off the tide, the height of the vessel's side, not having channel plates to assist the men in getting on her deck and her very superior force.

 

(A schooner of the largest dimensions, the Prince de Neufchatel, three hundred and twenty tons, eighteen guns, long nine and twelve pounders, with a complement of one hundred and forty men of all nations, commanded by Mons. Jean Ordsonaux)

 

the boats painter now being shot away, they again fell astern without ever being able to repeat the attack, and with great difficulty regained the ship, with the exception of the second barge which I have every reason to believe sunk alongside the schooner.

 

In transmitting this report, I can not help but deplore the unhappy issue of the enterprise, it would be great injustice to the officers and men of the boats if I omitted to say that their bravery and coolness is deserving every praise, I therefore sir beg to impress you with the belief that in no instance could either the officers and men have conducted themselves with greater determination than on the present occasion. I lament exceedingly the deaths of Lieutenant Hawkins, and Mr. Dalzeel, midshipman, who fell early in the action with many other seamen and marines.

 

Enclosed you will find a return of the killed and wounded. the ship that was in company with the privateer is the Douglass at Nantucket on their parole.

 

Signed Henry Hope.

 

From Lieutenant Armond I learn that as much as we have suffered on this occasion, the enemy's loss was still greater, fifteen only of their crew having escaped the well directed and devastating fire from the boats."

 

[Note: then followed a detailed list of the casualties by name, which I will omit.]

 

Total Killed ,17

Total wounded and died of wounds, 45 [including the surgeon, severely wounded!]

 

Total killed and wounded, 62."

 

Note to modelers: the schooner carried "eighteen guns, long nine and twelve pounders" not carronades!

 

Here is the entry of the Captain's log of the Endymion, 11 Oct., 1814, reference ADM51/ 2324 XC1084:

 

"At 4 light airs and variable. Calm and fine. out boats. sent them manned and armed with 105 men and officers in chase of the schooner, which we supposed to be a  privateer and her prize and anchored S.W. from the S. end of Nantucket. Burnt blue lights and rockets to send our position to the boats. The enemy opened a fired on the boats which continued 20 minutes. Midnight calm and fine. 3 AM calm and fine. The launch, barge, cutter and gig returned being repulsed by the enemy with the loss of 10 killed and 31 wounded, lieuts Hawkins, Armond, 4 mids and 30 seamen and marines missing with our yawl. Daylight weighed and hoisted in the boats, and made all sail to the westward ..." 

Edited by uss frolick
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Now for the American version of events. The following comes from the Newburyport Herald and Country Gazette (Massachusetts), of October 18, 1814.

 

"... On the 11th, Nantucket bore north, about a quarter of a mile distant from the land, discovered a frigate off Gayhead which gave chase and came up with a fresh breeze, while we were becalmed. At 3 PM we took a breeze and took the Douglass in tow. The frigate was about four leagues from us At [/} the wind died away calm. At 7 P.M. was obliged to come to anchor, and supposing the frigate would send her boats to attempt to capture us, [we] prepared accordingly. At 8 P.M. a signal was made from the prize that the boats were coming - soon afterwards discovered them - five in number, and in a few minutes they were alongside. The action commenced and continued for 20 minutes, when the enemy were repulsed in every attempt to board, and obliged to surrender. When the launches and barges left the frigate, they had on board 104 souls including the officers.

 

One launch having on board 48 men was sunk with only two men saved; one which had 32 men on board at the commencement of the action was taken possession of, she had 8 men killed 20 wounded and 4 unhurt, the three others drifted from alongside the brig with the current without a man to be seen in them (supposed thy must have been killed or wounded), and had not a boat to go after them, and had only 4 men left not killed or wounded. The barges were two on each side and one under the privateer's stern. The barges and launch were from the Endymion frigate. Kept the launch with their prisoners in it along side all night, not daring to let them come on board, as we had only 8 men left for duty. In the morning permitted Mr. F. Ormond, 2nd lieutenant, 3 midshipmen and one masters mate, to come on board and after they signed a parole, pledging their honor for themselves and the rest of the prisoners (25 seamen and marines)  that they would not serve against the United States during the war until regularly exchanged, sent them ashore at Nantucket, not knowing the situation of the place with the British. At The commencement of the action, the Price of Neufchatel had 40 men at quarters, including officers, (and had 37 prisoners on board)  of which 6 were killed, 15 severely wounded, 9 slightly wounded and 10 unhurt. The next day sent 17 prisoners on shore, and put them in the hands of the Martial, and also sent on shore all of our severely wounded men. ... On Friday ... saw the Endymion also at anchor in Tarpaulin Cove. She had sent a boat to Nantucket to inquire what had become of her barges and men.   ... The boats which drifted from alongside the privateer, at the end of the action, had been picked up by her [Endymion] The report was that nearly all were killed and wounded in them."

Edited by uss frolick
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USS,

 

Interesting, so...

 

Btw, the contemporary naval historian and lawyer William James, considered an authority on the War of 1812 and which he wrote about in some detail in his book, 'Naval Occurrences of the War of 1812', states that the Endymion's armament indeed included twenty two 32pdr. carronades, as you originally mention. He also says that she also carried a 12pdr. boat carronade, and that there were a total number of 50 guns.

Kester

 

Current builds: Sherbourne (Caldercraft) scale – 1/64th;

 

Statsraad Lehmkuhl (half model) 1/8th" – 1'.

 

Victory Bow Section (Panart/Mantua) scale – 1/78th  (on hold).

 

Previous build: Bluenose ll (Billings) scale – 1/100th.

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It is interesting how an official report attempts to put the best spin on what both sides would seem to agree was a bloody repulse. Amazing how these privateers - which generally weren't heavily manned - were able to hold off such assaults... Reid's crew did even better in the famous incident in the Azores near the end of the war.

 

Great to read thru these accounts.

 

Evan

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I too treasure my copy of William James's six volume "The Naval History of Great Britain". But old Billy-Jim tends to be a bit of an Ameri-phobe, especially in his first work, "Naval Occurrences ..." published in 1816.

 

Perhaps. However, even though he was English, he was not a naval officer or in the government, but a trained lawyer (I believe he had practised in Jamaica). As you might expect, he systematically weighed up all the available evidence from his own, seemingly thorough, investigations. I might say that in this regard he also fell foul of some British naval officers, over deductions he made over some British ship actions during the Napoleanic Wars – I believe one of them even going to so far as visiting his house and knocking him down!

 

As far as the official report goes, I don't think British naval officers were in the habit of writing untruths, why would they? The Admiralty would have found out pretty quickly and, in any case, there would have been too many witnesses of the event. I am a little surprised that the American version seems to be based on a newspaper report, or are there others more official?

Kester

 

Current builds: Sherbourne (Caldercraft) scale – 1/64th;

 

Statsraad Lehmkuhl (half model) 1/8th" – 1'.

 

Victory Bow Section (Panart/Mantua) scale – 1/78th  (on hold).

 

Previous build: Bluenose ll (Billings) scale – 1/100th.

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I truncated the American newspaper account, omitting the earlier parts of her cruise and her numerous captures. It seems to be copied from the brig's log book. But it is still a contemporary account. But notice the details they agree upon, 104 vs. 105 British sailors made the attack, and both agreed the contest lasted 20 minutes.

 

Poor James was either in New York or Boston at the outbreak of the war, and being a lawyer, he couldn't help but shoot off his mouth. This quickly landed him in prison, from which he escaped somehow, and hoofed it north to Canada, where he befriended many British Naval officers, chief among them Phillip Brook of the Shannon. He definitely had an axe to grind, and perhaps he was justified, but you can feel this in his writings, particularly in "Naval Occurrences". He is spot on, however, with his material and technical data, and for this reason, his work is the definitive work for the period.

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I can understand the differences between the two reports as being essentially honest. If the official letter had been written before the return of the paroled prisoners, then Captain Hope would have only the reports of those men who failed to gain the enemy's deck to go on. The that privateer was undermanned rings true, as she had already sent in many captured prizes, including manning the nearby Douglass prior to the battle. The description of the British prisoners being kept in their own yawl to prevent an uprising tends to support this. Those men in the boats that got back to the Endymion would not have had a clear estimate of how many men the enemy consisted of, as it was night-time, and they were badly battered by the cannon prior to reaching the brig's side. All they saw was a high brig's side with its boarding nettings and the flash of cannon and small arms.

 

The American claims of multiple drifting boats with no one left alive in them, could be explained. If your oars are shot away, your officers are taken out and the current if pulling you away, your first instinct would be to duck, since you cannot renew the attack, and you lie as low in the gunwales as you possibly can until you are out of range. It would appear to the Americans that everyone was dead in them.

 

The statement that the Endymion's 105 man boarding party was out-numbered by a superior force of 140 multinational privateersmen is a touchy statement that few navy men would dare to make. I think overconfidence and cockiness on the British part, the total lack of surprise, combined with an unfamiliarity of the sudden and vicious currents off Nantucket, doomed the mission. The Privateersmen, whatever their true number also displayed excellent gunnery and small arms skills.

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Interesting note on from a British account on the Prince de Neufchatel's armament. I know the ship on her various cruises differed in fitting (armament - sail plan), but this is the first mention I have seen were carronades did not make up the totality of her armament besides the bow chasers.

USS Frolick, since I do not have the original source to consult - could I impose on your for some more information? Does what you have denote the disposition of those 18 guns (i.e. 16x Long 9, and 2x 12 pounders)?

 

Stockholm Tar, you are correct. A British officer was expected to provide as truthful and accurate accounting of events as possible. If the account was found amiss, swift punishment with dismissal would follow. Although, as anyone reporting from their natural nationalistic perspective, it is difficult for a bias to not color the account.

 

Thank you,

 

Tim

Edited by Tim I.
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No exact disposition of the P de N's guns are known to me other than the above report. The all carronade armament would have been used had the brig been taken into the RN service, but since her frame was built so lightly that her back broke in the British dry-dock whilst taking her lines off, this was not done. So Tim, your disposition of sixteen and two nines and twelves respectively, is probably correct. I can't see her carrying more than two heavy long twelves, especially considering how light her frame would prove to be.

 

The P de N was built in New York by the firm of Adam and Noah Brown. Another of the firm's brig/schooners was the famous Privateer General Armstrong. During her first commission, the General carried 18 long nine pounders and one long 12-pounder. It is not known whether the long twelve was on a pivot or used as a shifting 'long tom'. During her second cruise the General carried six long nines and one massive French 36-pounder on a pivot. See Tucker, Spencer, "Arming the Fleet: US Navy Ordinance in the Muzzle Loading Era", Naval Institute Press, p.136.

 

Note also that the report implies that she had no "channel plates" and so that her chain plates were perhaps flush with the sides so that the British couldn't use them to gain access to the deck.

Edited by uss frolick
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'... they succeeded in again getting alongside, but not in the positions intended; their failure therefore is to be ascribed in the first instant to the velocity off the tide, the height of the vessel's side, not having channel plates to assist the men in getting on her deck and her very superior force.'

 

The boat action would seem to have been very well planned, as would be expected of the RN, but the boat crew appeared to have had everything against them. I tend to agree with Captain Hope that probably the primary factor here was the swiftness of the unexpected current. No attack in those days, however well planned, could usually withstand the forces of nature. I contend that had it not been so strong, or non existent, the outcome may well have been somewhat different.

Edited by Stockholm tar

Kester

 

Current builds: Sherbourne (Caldercraft) scale – 1/64th;

 

Statsraad Lehmkuhl (half model) 1/8th" – 1'.

 

Victory Bow Section (Panart/Mantua) scale – 1/78th  (on hold).

 

Previous build: Bluenose ll (Billings) scale – 1/100th.

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I agree in general, Tar, with the great professionalism of the Royal Navy of the period. The British have no greater fan than I!

 

But in this particular case, I look at the draughts of the schooner in question and the height of her sides don't seem unusually great for a brig, and her force doesn't seem to be "very superior" for a privateer, even if she were fully manned, which she was not. One need only look through the pages of James Naval History to see unbelievable boarding actions won by Her Majesty. I sailed those same waters as a kid, and even I known what happens in Nantucket Sound when the tide changes, let alone inshore amongst the shallow shoals. Captain Hope ought to have known the characteristics of the waters he was assigned to blockade. Certainly he knew when the tide was due to change. And surely all the signal shenanigans didn't help with the surprise aspect. But he sent off between a quarter and a third of his crew - not an inferior force by any means - in five boats armed with carronades and swivels, yet he suffered nearly as many casualties at the hands of this gaggle of multinational merchant sailors as did Captain Dacres of the Guerriere at the hands of the Constitution.

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Here is an excerpt from a letter of Captain Sir George Collier, commander of the HMS Leander one of the warships that participated in her capture.

 

"1815, Jan 28 - Sir, I have the pleasure to acquaint you, that with the squadron under my orders, being in quest of the American ships of war, which escaped during the late gales from the Ports of Massachusetts, I had the good fortune, yesterday, at sunset, to capture the celebrated privateer, Prince de Neufchatel, hermaphrodite - rigged, pierced for 22 guns, and having 18 mounted, six of which are long nine, and twelve pounders, and the rest twelve pounder carronades; measures 330 tons, with a crew of 130 men under the Command of Nicholas Millin., by birth a Frenchman and one of superior professional skill and enterprize. She sailed from Boston on the 21st inst. and is the completest vessel I have ever saw. The activity of the Captains of the Newcastle and Acasta cut off the chance of escape from this cruizer during a chase of ten hours, the wind blowing a hard gale...etc.. G.R, Collier , Captain"

 

- Tim

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One has to remember also, that a privateer was in the grey area of things.  There's a good chance that crew would have been imprisoned, possibly tried as pirates.  So they would fight harder not to be captured.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

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No exact disposition of the P de N's guns are known to me other than the above report. The all carronade armament would have been used had the brig been taken into the RN service, but since her frame was built so lightly that her back broke in the British dry-dock whilst taking her lines off, this was not done. So Tim, your disposition of sixteen and two nines and twelves respectively, is probably correct. I can't see her carrying more than two heavy long twelves, especially considering how light her frame would prove to be.

 

The P de N was built in New York by the firm of Adam and Noah Brown. Another of the firm's brig/schooners was the famous Privateer General Armstrong. During her first commission, the General carried 18 long nine pounders and one long 12-pounder. It is not known whether the long twelve was on a pivot or used as a shifting 'long tom'. During her second cruise the General carried six long nines and one massive French 36-pounder on a pivot. See Tucker, Spencer, "Arming the Fleet: US Navy Ordinance in the Muzzle Loading Era", Naval Institute Press, p.136.

 

Note also that the report implies that she had no "channel plates" and so that her chain plates were perhaps flush with the sides so that the British couldn't use them to gain access to the deck.

 

Channel plates, could this be a reference to sea steps instead of chain plates? As every schematic and line drawing on the ship I have (specifically Howard Chappele -- who studied the ship extensively shows them), shows chain plates that are not flush to the hull.

 

- Tim

Edited by Tim I.
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Hello ,

an interesting discussion. I have a question and think here is the right place to ask.

On the Muster Roll of the Prince de Neufchatel Marines are listed..

http://www.1812privateers.org/Privateers/crew.html
Were the members of the U.S. Marine Corps or special privately funded Privateer Marines ?

Edited by Chapman
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Tim, what a great find! Perhaps the Prince de Neufchatel's new captain swapped most of her long guns out for carronades in Boston between the time Hope wrote his report, and the time Sir George Collier wrote his?  It might have been done to save weight, perhaps? 

 

Well, the only thing that Hope denotes in his report in respect to guns is the long nines, he says the others were twelves. He does not go further and denote if they were long guns or carronades. Chappele's research on the ship shows that it had a primary compliment of a majority of twelve pounder carronades (considering she was fitted out in France for privaterring, access to these guns makes sense) augmented by some bow chasers differing in six pound to nine pound weight. Considering that ships of this period often fitted out for the cruise based on a captains prerogative, it does stand to reason that there would be some variation in armament, paint and rig. I have done a lot of research on this vessel, and almost every source (original or secondary) points to carronades being principle armament, and not having long guns in the majority.

 

Various secondary sources have indicated that at times there were as many as four long guns of various calibers (often not mentioned as to what they are). Collier's report I find interesting as it points to the carronade theory. As anything in a historical context, we see the past darkly and only get a candle to view a small portion. Based on my research so far I personally ascribe to the carronade theory, but will be amending my current build progress to incorporate six long nines. 

 

I do agree with you, that the Prince was built very light, specifically to facilitate her purpose as a skirmisher. As for armament like you I was always skeptical on how many guns she carried (despite having 22 piercings for guns), especially the larger bore (thereby heavier) carronades. However, many hermaphrodite rigged brigs of the period often were principle armed with with smaller bore cannonades, both American and English.

 

Although like you, I am keeping an open mind and will follow were the research leads. I would really like to thank you for starting this thread, as it has provided a forum to discuss an element of my research on this ship I have never been completely comfortable with as being factual.

 

Thanks!

 

- Tim

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Chapman, another great find! Keep them coming guys ...

 

Did Model Shipways discontinue their Prince de Neufchatel kit?

 

Tim, I like your thoughts on her armament ...  "long nines" .... "and twelves" ... ?

 

Yes, they discontinued the kit. Howard Chapelle's books The History of American Sailing Ships and The Search for Speed Under Sail have the line drawings and sail plans respectively if someone is considering a scratch build. These plans were used for the model of the Prince de Nuefchatel that sits in the Smithsonian's collection, the model of the ship that Model Shipways based their kit on.

 

After my previous post, I went back through my research on page 239 of The Search for Speed Under Sail, Chapelle sites the possible armament of the Prince as being 18 pdr carronades or 12 pdr carronades on carriages instead of sleds. He also does not mention 9 pdr longs, rather two standard 6 pdrs. For the carronade mounts, the plans from the Smithsonian denote sleds for the carronades of the typical 1790 design. Talk about muddying the water! 

 

As of right now I am a bit torn on how I want to move forward on the carronades. Do I mount them on sleds or the carriages provided in the kit. I am more inclined to go with sleds. Anyone have a suggestion?

 

Thank you,

 

Tim

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Carronades cast with standard trunnions, instead of with the bottom loop, did exist in that period, but they were rare, and only in the smaller cailbers. They were almost always referred to as "gunades" or "gunnades".

 

I have several sources that denote those as well as being indicative of the period. The one thing that sticks out to me on the armament is that she was fitted out in Cherbourg, France at the onset of the War of 1812. I personally do not have any evidence that the guns followed a French influence and leaned more towards gunnades. However, Chapelle in both his books mentioned above denotes that they were mounted on traditional carriages. In the Model Shipways kit the carronades supplied do have trunions, a nod to your gunnade comment.

 

I am debating on if I should modify them to be on carronade sleds, as it seems more logical given the narrow beam of the ship. Especially in the fore of the ship, there really is limited room for the recoil of a carriage mounted gun, let alone at amidships. Other sources like the Smithsonian plans of the ship show carronade sleds and Philip Reed in his book Period Ship Modelmaking: A Masterclass in his two scratch builds of the Prince de Neufchatel uses carronade sleds.

 

Another thing I am currently torn on, is ships with similar armament during the War of 1812, for the most part used carronade sleds, not carriages as gunnades. Any thoughts on what would be a more "accurate" depiction of the vessel? 

 

Thank you,

 

Tim

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Tim,

 

As you may recall I went with sleds on my PDN build. Whatever you do I wouldn't use the MS supplied carriages. They just don't look right at all to my eye. The carriages Chapelle shows as a possibility in Search for Speed Under Sail would to my eye look much better. 

Joe Volz

 

 

Current build:

Model Shipways "Benjamin W. Latham"

 

 

Completed  builds on MSW:

Caldercraft HMS "Cruizer   Caldercraft HMBV "Granado"   Model Shipways "Prince De Neufchatel"

 

 

 

 

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Joe, 

 

I liked your interpretation immensely. Unfortunately my PdN build, it on a very limited budget and purchasing the extra long guns will stretch my budget beyond the limit imposed, so I might have to adapt the existing carronades. If you don't mind, where did you find your carronades?

 

Thank you,

 

Tim

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Tim,

 

Those are the kit ones.

 

I  flipped them 90 degrees, after installing the brass rod that was to be the trunnion I filed it flush on what was now the top and left a bit sticking out on the bottom to pin to the sled. I made breeching rings from brass wire. They're not 100% right, as there is no actual pivot point on bottom, but I also didn't want to replace them $ wise, and they were nice brass, so it would have been a shame to just toss them. 

Joe Volz

 

 

Current build:

Model Shipways "Benjamin W. Latham"

 

 

Completed  builds on MSW:

Caldercraft HMS "Cruizer   Caldercraft HMBV "Granado"   Model Shipways "Prince De Neufchatel"

 

 

 

 

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Tim, I just saw your Prince de Neufchatel build log: Very nice!

 

Thank you. This thread has been a big help, and enlightening on the issue of armament I was stuck on. Thank you for starting this!

 

- Tim

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Since this thread had attracted so much interest, I thought I'd include the first part of the Newburyport Herald article:

 

"Cruise of the Prince of Neufchatel

 

Arrived here on Saturday last Privateer brig Prince-of-Neufchatel, Ordannaux, of New York (of 315 tons 14 guns) from a cruise.  Sailed from Cherbourg, 4th July. On 9th, captured Sloop Jane, Bowen, from St Jean de Luz, for Falmouth- cargo lumber, burnt her. - 22nd captured brig Triton, Blanche, from Cadiz to London cargo coffee and wine, scuttled her after taking out some of the coffee - 24th captured Brig Aaron (a transport), Prindall, from Gibraltar to Lisbon, in Ballast, scuttled her, - 27th , captured brig Apollo, Hardy, from  St. Ubes for Riga, cargo Salt, burnt her,  - August 8th captured the Cutter Gen. Doyle, Simpson, from Leghorn to Lisbon, cargo oil, took out most of her cargo and burnt her - 14th captured Brig Barewich Packet, Crosby, from Cork for Bristol in Ballast and 50 passengers, put on board all the prisoners and gave her up. Same day captured sloop George, Barber, from Milford Haven for Portsmouth, cargo coals scuttled her 16th captured brig Gibson, Clark, from Grenock for Cork in Ballast, scuttled her - 18th captured Brig Nymph, Hutchinson, from St. Jean de Luz for Cork, cargo dry goods and provisions took out all the former articles and threw overboard the latter, put on board all the prisoners and gave her up. Same day captured Brig Albion, Faragher, from Greenock for Cork, cargo,  wine, gin, brandy and dry goods, took out the latter article and some of the former, then burnt her, 20th captured Ship Harmony, Wilson, from Grenock for Cork, cargo dry goods and an assortment of other articles, took a part of the cargo, and manned her and kept her in company two or three days, and saw her taken by a sloop of war - 30th lat  45 30 long 29, captured brig Charlotte, Edwards,  from Rio Janeirro, [sic] cargo hides and Brazil wood, burnt her. Same day boarded Russian Ship Austrian, from Havannah to Bordeaux, had been plundered the day before by a Guernsey letter of marque brig of 14 guns (which the captain saw in the Havannah) under American colours. Put onboard by the captains consent, a number of prisoners and supplied them with provisions. Sept. 2nd, Lat  44 Long 35 , spoke and boarded brig William, prize to the York Privateer, supplied her with bread. September 6th, captured ship Douglass, of and for Liverpool, from Demerara, full cargo of Rum, cotton and coffee, 420 tons,  lat 41 30 long 45,  30th lat 38 30 long 61 30  captured brig Mary Ann , McLeod,  from St. Johns for Barbados, cargo lumber, burnt her. Total prizes fifteen."

 

Note that only two of the prizes were manned, the rest burnt or sent off, so maybe the Prince had a larger proportion of her crew on board during the battle than I had previously supposed ...

 

Note also: "14 guns" !!! :lol

Edited by uss frolick
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Hello ,

 

an interesting discussion. I have a question and think here is the right place to ask.

 

On the Muster Roll of the Prince de Neufchatel Marines are listed..

http://www.1812privateers.org/Privateers/crew.html

Were the members of the U.S. Marine Corps or special privately funded Privateer Marines ?

 

As I recall from my Marine Corps history, the answer is: most likely US  Marine Corps.    The main reason for the Corps existence back then was for the protection of shipping.  Often they were aboard merchant ships as well as privateers and of course, regular Navy ships.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

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Sine this thread had attracted so much interest, I thought I'd include the first part of the Newburyport Herald article:

 

"Cruise of the Prince of Neufchatel

 

Arrived here on Saturday last Privateer brig Prince-of-Neufchatel, Ordannaux, of New York (of 315 tons 14 guns) from a cruise.  Sailed from Cherbourg, 4th July. On 9th, captured Sloop Jane, Bowen, from St Jean de Luz, for Falmouth- cargo lumber, burnt her. - 22nd captured brig Triton, Blanche, from Cadiz to London cargo coffee and wine, scuttled her after taking out some of the coffee - 24th captured Brig Aaron (a transport), Prindall, from Gibraltar to Lisbon, in Ballast, scuttled her, - 27th , captured brig Apollo, Hardy, from  St. Ubes for Riga, cargo Salt, burnt her,  - August 8th captured the Cutter Gen. Doyle, Simpson, from Leghorn to Lisbon, cargo oil, took out most of her cargo and burnt her - 14th captured Brig Barewich Packet, Crosby, from Cork for Bristol in Ballast and 50 passengers, put on board all the prisoners and gave her up. Same day captured sloop George, Barber, from Milford Haven for Portsmouth, cargo coals scuttled her 16th captured brig Gibson, Clark, from Grenock for Cork in Ballast, scuttled her - 18th captured Brig Nymph, Hutchinson, from St. Jean de Luz for Cork, cargo dry goods and provisions took out all the former articles and threw overboard the latter, put on board all the prisoners and gave her up. Same day captured Brig Albion, Faragher, from Greenock for Cork, cargo,  wine, gin, brandy and dry goods, took out the latter article and some of the former, then burnt her, 20th captured Ship Harmony, Wilson, from Grenock for Cork, cargo dry goods and an assortment of other articles, took a part of the cargo, and manned her and kept her in company two or three days, and saw her taken by a sloop of war - 30th lat  45 30 long 29, captured brig Charlotte, Edwards,  from Rio Janeirro, [sic] cargo hides and Brazil wood, burnt her. Same day boarded Russian Ship Austrian, from Havannah to Bordeaux, had been plundered the day before by a Guernsey letter of marque brig of 14 guns (which the captain saw in the Havannah) under American colours. Put onboard by the captains consent, a number of prisoners and supplied them with provisions. Sept. 2nd, Lat  44 Long 35 , spoke and boarded brig William, prize to the York Privateer, supplied her with bread. September 6th, captured ship Douglass, of and for Liverpool, from Demerara, full cargo of Rum, cotton and coffee, 420 tons,  lat 41 30 long 45,  30th lat 38 30 long 61 30  captured brig Mary Ann , McLeod,  from St. Johns for Barbados, cargo lumber, burnt her. Total prizes fifteen."

 

Note that only two of the prizes were manned, the rest burnt or sent off, so maybe the Prince had a larger proportion of her crew on board during the battle than I had previously supposed ...

 

Note also: "14 guns" !!! :lol

 

Sure, make it more complicated! :)

 

Interesting excerpt!

 

- Tim

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