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Help with Hull on Artesania latina hms bounty's jolly boat

planking hull keel

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12 replies to this topic

#1
bostonerin

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Hi everyone - 

 

I am relatively new to ship building and have run into a problem/question.

 

I am building Artesania Latina HMS Bounty Jolly Boat and am confused how to incorporate the Keel. I've attached some pictures of my progress.

 

I have already decided that I will do a second layer of planking and therefore decided to use some putty to fill in some gaps in the planking rather than additional small pieces of wood. As I was sanding down the bow, I decided to test the fit of the keel piece and noticed that the inner curve of the keel does not match the curve of the hull-- at all!  Since I already was going to second plank, should i fill this huge gap with putty? should I do something else? I am really confused and would love some guidance.

Thanks,
Erin

Attached Thumbnails

  • IMG_5259.JPG
  • IMG_5260.JPG
  • IMG_5261.JPG

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#2
Beef Wellington

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Erin, first off, welcome to MSW!  I'd suggest you start a build log as thats by far the best way to get help, advice and encouragement from builders who are familiar with this kit.

 

I'd also suggest searching on the site for some similar logs, heres at least one.  http://modelshipworl...ll/#entry144948

 

I'm not familiar with the kit, but it looks like you planking at the bow should have terminated in a nice smooth curve against a keel/stem similar to the piece you are holding.  It sounds dramatic, and I hate to say it, but you may be better of removing the planking you've completed so far and redoing it.  Using putty would be futile as the shape of the final hull would be very odd indeed.  I'm sure you are eager to proceed, but I think you will get a much more satisfactory result that you will feel good about.

 

Good luck!


Edited by Beef Wellington, 28 October 2014 - 07:17 PM.

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Cheers,
 
Jason


"But if you ask the reason of this, many will be found who never thought about it"
 
In the shipyard:

HMS Snake (c1797: Cruizer Class, ship rigged sloop)

HMS Jason (c1794: Artois Class 38 gun frigate)


#3
bostonerin

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Thanks for the reply. I really didn't want to redo the planking but maybe I should. Thanks.
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#4
Aussie048

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Erin

 

Did yoir fair up the bulkheads before you started planking.

 

If you didn't you need to

 

Cheers

Geoff


Edited by Aussie048, 29 October 2014 - 10:53 PM.

Current builds - None

On hold builds - All

#5
Everest

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I think Beef Wellington is right. There is a wealth of information on here but you have to dig it out. 

 At the top of the web site page, NRG"S MODEL SHIP WORLD just to the iright of that heading there is The Nautical Research Guild home Page. Click on that.Scroll to ship modeling resources.Scroll down to Ship Modeling Database of Articles. Click onFraming and Planking. 

 Don't let the number of chapters throw you. There is a lot of info there' all of which you may not need to use.but there are some gems in there that you can use

 You can do it. Take your time, but most of all ENJOY YOURSELF.


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#6
figuerres

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I have done that kit, my profile pick is a photo of that. I will upload some photos later but it does look as if something went wrong.

the curve of the bow should "fit" the bow keel.   with the upside down pictures I can't say for sure but it looks as if the top of your planking is not right.

most ships and boats should have a shape almost like a saddle, a bit of pulling up at the bow and at the stern.

one of the terms that describe an old hull is "Hogging" which I read as starting to get a shape like the back of a hog - higher in the middle than the ends.

 

also the "Notch" on the top end of the bow should be at the same level as the top board of the hull where the oar notches are.

 

also be a care full with sanding as this is a thin hull.   if you can even get a bunch of strip wood and copy the hull ribs and practice planking before you re-plank the actual model.  I am still learning how to get this right, it's a bit tricky, the more times you try it the better you will get.


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Holding at Rigging stage :
MS Bluenose 1:64, rigging and finish work

Building Hull :
MS Fair American 1:48

In the yard:  18th Century Longboat, Model Shipways Kit
Done: AL Bounty Jolly Boat

#7
catopower

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Hi Erin,

 

I've built a few Artesania Latina kits and based on those and what you show in your photos, it looks like all that probably happened was that you ran the planks past the bow instead of of simply up to the edge of the bow, as Jason pointed out.

 

Assuming the framing is okay, you should be able to just trim/sand the excess planking off. As you do, you'll start to see the edge of that internal keel piece show through. By the time you uncover the whole edge and trim/sand the planking back, you should find that the curve of the bow will match that keel piece your holding in the photos.

 

The kit probably includes thin strips of mahogany veneer for the second layer of planking, so you don't have to worry too much about how the planking looks, but you do want it to be smooth.

 

Good luck on your build. It's your first, so I wouldn't sweat it too much. Just do what you can  and learn from it and, most importantly, enjoy the build!

 

Clare


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Clare Hess

He's a -> "HE"

 

Hyde Street Pier Model Shipwrights

South Bay Model Shipwrights

Nautical Research Guild

 

Current Builds: HMS Victory, 1805; USS Saginaw, 1859 (on hold); Too many miscellaneous projects!

 

Recent Builds: HMS Alert, 1777 (Card Model)Tosa WasenYakatabune, Japanese Edo Period Pleasure Boat; Hacchoro, Japanese Traditional Fishing Boat; Higaki Kaisen, Japanese Edo Period Transport; 18th C. English Longboat; NY Pilot Boat Mary Taylor, 1850; Privateer Lively, 1813; HMS Fair Rosamond, 1831


#8
figuerres

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here is a photo from my model.

 

 

well it will be if the darn system will work....


Edited by figuerres, 11 November 2014 - 10:13 PM.

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Holding at Rigging stage :
MS Bluenose 1:64, rigging and finish work

Building Hull :
MS Fair American 1:48

In the yard:  18th Century Longboat, Model Shipways Kit
Done: AL Bounty Jolly Boat

#9
figuerres

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one more try...

Attached Thumbnails

  • jolly boat.jpg

  • donrobinson likes this
Holding at Rigging stage :
MS Bluenose 1:64, rigging and finish work

Building Hull :
MS Fair American 1:48

In the yard:  18th Century Longboat, Model Shipways Kit
Done: AL Bounty Jolly Boat

#10
mfh

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Hi Everyone,

                    like the OP, I'm a novice building the Jolly Boat of HMS Bounty and while I don't have a concrete problem there is something in the instructions that puzzles me and I'm hoping one of the experts here can clarify something for me.

 

As an ex IT person I have a habit before I start anything of studying the instructions (manual) carefully to ensure I have everything to hand so to speak and have an idea of what I'm going to need to do. 

 

My problem? well in the parts listing,  in each section you have 7 different languages, I speak three of them and can get by in another two, the columns in the listing are :- Ref, Description,  Quantity, Size, Material, the languages are Spanish, English, French, German, Italian, Portuguese and Dutch 

 

The problem? well in Ref 15 the first four languages have under Quantity  4 pieces whereas the final three languages have quantity 1, in Ref 16 the first four have quantity 2 whereas the last three have quantity 1, in Ref 17 the first four quantity 6, the last three quantity 1, in Ref 19 first four quantity 2 pieces the last three quantity 1.

 

I was going to stop at Ref 19 but further reading shows discrepancies Ref 61 where the situation ifs reversed i.e the first 4 languages have quantity 1 whereas the last 3 have quantity 2, in Ref 69 we come back to first four having quantity 4 and the last three have quantity 2 and so it goes, suffice to say apart from the above mentioned Ref's with discrepancies the same situation is found in Ref's 70, 72,79, 80,81,82,83,85,86,88,89.

 

For the life of me I cannot imagine why Italian, Portuguese and Dutch have either less pieces or more pieces in different sections I also noted that the Material for these languages is frequently Manzonia,  the others are African Walnut.

 

I'd really appreciate it if someone could please cast any light on this issue, even if it is to tell me I'm over analysing the situation :-) 

 

My apologies if the custom on this site is to always start new threads rather than bumping old ones 

 

 

 


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#11
figuerres

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Hi Everyone,

                    like the OP, I'm a novice building the Jolly Boat of HMS Bounty and while I don't have a concrete problem there is something in the instructions that puzzles me and I'm hoping one of the experts here can clarify something for me.

 

As an ex IT person I have a habit before I start anything of studying the instructions (manual) carefully to ensure I have everything to hand so to speak and have an idea of what I'm going to need to do. 

 

My problem? well in the parts listing,  in each section you have 7 different languages, I speak three of them and can get by in another two, the columns in the listing are :- Ref, Description,  Quantity, Size, Material, the languages are Spanish, English, French, German, Italian, Portuguese and Dutch 

 

The problem? well in Ref 15 the first four languages have under Quantity  4 pieces whereas the final three languages have quantity 1, in Ref 16 the first four have quantity 2 whereas the last three have quantity 1, in Ref 17 the first four quantity 6, the last three quantity 1, in Ref 19 first four quantity 2 pieces the last three quantity 1.

 

I was going to stop at Ref 19 but further reading shows discrepancies Ref 61 where the situation ifs reversed i.e the first 4 languages have quantity 1 whereas the last 3 have quantity 2, in Ref 69 we come back to first four having quantity 4 and the last three have quantity 2 and so it goes, suffice to say apart from the above mentioned Ref's with discrepancies the same situation is found in Ref's 70, 72,79, 80,81,82,83,85,86,88,89.

 

For the life of me I cannot imagine why Italian, Portuguese and Dutch have either less pieces or more pieces in different sections I also noted that the Material for these languages is frequently Manzonia,  the others are African Walnut.

 

I'd really appreciate it if someone could please cast any light on this issue, even if it is to tell me I'm over analysing the situation :-) 

 

My apologies if the custom on this site is to always start new threads rather than bumping old ones 

 

LOL, a *LOT* of documentation for kit models and many other things - like some computer stuff gets really bad docs.

they hire out the transaltions and they will often have many small errors depending on what the first language was and how it is re-translated by different people who may not be really qualified to do that job.

 

if you really want to get it right just view the doc as a general guide, honestly i think you need to build at least two or three ships before you start to really understand them and then you will need more from the blueprints than from any manual.


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Holding at Rigging stage :
MS Bluenose 1:64, rigging and finish work

Building Hull :
MS Fair American 1:48

In the yard:  18th Century Longboat, Model Shipways Kit
Done: AL Bounty Jolly Boat

#12
John Allen

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Erin,

 

Do not be discouraged, all of us have had to redo a step that turned out awry. I've had some really bad ones but it really was a good experience after doing it again especially if it was time consuming you are sure never to make that mistake again, maybe :)


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John Allen

 

 

Current build Mamoli HMS Victory

Armed Launch-Panart

Diligence English Revenue Cutter-Marine  Model Co. 

On deck Maori (Waca) war canoe

and Double hull Polynesian canoe (Holakea)


#13
mfh

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@ Figuerre

Thanks for the reply as an ex IT person I thought that might be the answer so it's nice to have it confirmed  :)


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