Sunsanvil

HMS Bounty Launch by Sunsanvil - Model Shipways - Scale 1:16 - First wooden ship build

60 posts in this topic

Well, I've finally had time to reset the modelling table and start this project. I feel very confident with the overall process but already have some wood related questions.

 

Here is my false keel:

 

post-25565-0-92266900-1473977199_thumb.jpeg

 

Sorry for the poor light. What l'm trying to show is that at the top edge (the one resting against the strait edge), is out of true by, litterally, 1mm (gap between it and the strait edge at the mid point). I have no idea if that's crazy unaceptable or within normal wood tolerances at this size and scale. The bottom edge is perfect. I've read about soaking and clamping parts such as this to strait edges etc but I really wonder if I mightn't make it worse rather than better.

 

The other starting question is on laminating the two keel halves.

 

post-25565-0-55872000-1473977339_thumb.jpeg

 

The instructions caution against using wood glue, suggesting instead CA/super glue but I'd rather not the later if possible. If one is judicious with the amount of wood glue, and weight it down against a perfectly flat surface, is there that much danger of warpage?

 

Also wondering if someone can suggest a good set of files? The ones I have now are too fine. Great for plastic, but no good for shaping wood.

 

Thanks all....

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I'm not very experienced with wooden ships, I am working on my first, but I do prefer wood glue over CA. I don't know how to solve your keel problems, but someone will probably have an answer for you. Good luck!

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Hi, Sunsanvil. Just trying to address your questions. Firstly, the edge on the top of the central false keel should not matter at all. Ultimately, you will lift this whole frame (central keel piece with attached bulkhead formers) out. The frame is only used to give shape to your planking. 

 

As for your second query regarding the keel pieces ... personally, I used wood glue, also. Then I clamped the pieces down whilst the glue dried. If you are worried, then use the white wood glue. The yellow is probably stronger, but will also be thicker, and may add to any warpage.

 

Hope this helps you ... and I look forward to following your progress.

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Thanks Cap'n.  I was inclined to just use the false keel as is but thought it best to ask.  It occurred to me though that it does mean the top of the center frame will be ever so slightly off kilter, probably by only 0.5mm, relative to the stem and stern, but on an 18" model made of wood which is going to change and shift over the course of the build anyway, perhaps a non issue?

 

As for CA, I actually like using it for certain things but a big long keel like that, to me, is asking for trouble: apply the thin CA without the two halves being perfectly perfectly flat and one might just end up locking in a warp. :)

 

Thinking ahead to the frames, it strikes me that, where they are all nicely marked for the sheer tabs/guides, would I not be wise to leave the sheer tabs off until after fairing of the frames?  They have to be faired past the tabs anyway and that would be a lot easier if the tabs weren't there at the time....

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I faired the bulkheads before fitting the sheer tabs, too ... it just made more sense. I also thought it a good idea to add extra sheer tabs, but then removed them later, as they just got in the way.

 

Also, you may want to compare the stem-post from your kit against the plans. In my kit, the size of the cut-out for the pintles/gudgeons differed from one plan sheet ... but agreed with another. See here to see what I mean. My fix is here.

 

Thinking back to your false keel ... it probably would be a good idea to clamp the piece and press it as perfectly flat as you can. Even though your variance is only 1mm or so, it would help to align the bulkheads better if the keel was flat.

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Finally getting back to this and have my building frame ready to assemble.  The instructions are very clear, in several places, that the shear tabs should face forward on molds 9-15 and rearward on 1-8.   But doing so means that the dotted fairing guide lines on 1-3 and 15 are on the wrong side.  Just short sighted design?

 

I've laminated the real keel and stem parts and scarf joined them.  Lines up perfect with the plans at the bow but I notice that the whole thing is shorter than what is on the plans by about 1/8".  The frame notches do not all line up with what is on the plans but do line up with molds on the false keel though so I'm thinking its the printout which is wrong....

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Half of your bulkheads will be meant to face the opposite direction so that the fairing will be correct. When it comes time to fit the ribs (frames), the sheer-tabs will help to prevent them from sliding off the faired bulkheads.

 

One idea would be to wax the lower edges of your bulkheads (after fairing) to ensure they do not stick to the frames.

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Half of your bulkheads will be meant to face the opposite direction so that the fairing will be correct.

Except the fairing guides on the few which have then end up on the wrong side. Not a big deal but seems like an oversight in the design/instructions...

 

post-25565-0-95188000-1475405990_thumb.jpeg

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post-25565-0-40735900-1477947793_thumb.jpeg

Building frame is just about ready. Keel is ready, rabbet carved.

What to do about this abomination...

post-25565-0-68569200-1477947916_thumb.jpg

Is the consensus to put it on the inside and hide it with stowage? I don't have the right material to make my own.

I'm a little confused about carving the taper at the stem. Concave, convex, othe...?

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What to do about this abomination...

 

 

That caused a great deal of consternation when I was doing my own Launch. None of us could work out exactly why it was necessary to stamp TRANS into that piece. It's easily the most recognisable part in the whole kit. Sanding it out won't work - I've tried !!

In the end, I planked over the part with thin (0.5mm) veneer. 

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I'm a little confused and carving the taper at the stem. Concave, convex, othe...?

 

I guess you'd call it convex. The first photo in this link shows my stem, after tapering.

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Annoying they would burn it right on the transom. I would attempt to make a new one. No extra wood in the kit that thickness? Maybe get some extra basswood from Michael's?

Steve

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When I built this kit, I just planked over the transom with some spare veneer I had from another kit, then stained it the same colour. It looks pretty convincing. 

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Just a quick heads-up you may want to keep in mind ...

When bending the frames, I lost quite a few to breakage before realizing that I needed to pay closer attention to the run of the wood-grain (though it seems you had no problems with your first one).

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Is there a visual cue to use?

 

I read that a gentle plying of the part will give an indication of the best orientation to bend it in (the one which is most yielding).

 

Can't say that I know wood well enough to have spotted any visual clues. I'd agree with what you have read about gently plying the wood. If it doesn't yield, then turn it 90 degrees.

 

How much spring back on the ribs is acceptable? Or phrased another way, how close to perfection should I be going for? Here is my test rib after being clamped in place for 24 hours.

 

 

That looks good. The plans, as I recall, mention spot-gluing the frame pieces just above the sheer-tabs.

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That looks good. The plans, as I recall, mention spot-gluing the frame pieces just above the sheer-tabs.

 

Thanks. Indeed they will be spot glued. I just didn't know if that much spring-back is "normal" or if I would want to reheat one like that and try to get it a little closer to perfection before forcing it the last couple mm into place.

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Susan, those ribs are too thin to be structural. They are only there for cosmetic reasons. The shape of the boat is determined by the planking and the thwarts, which you will install much later. If you look at other build logs on MSW, you will see that nearly everybody complains that the hull "spreads" (becomes wider) after it is removed from the jig. This is NOT because of the ribs, it is just the way it is. If I were you, I wouldn't worry about this amount of spring back, as long as you make sure the ribs are firmly pushed in when you start planking. 

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Thanks much for that Keith.

 

I did a couple more, broke both, decided it was a combination of going too fast and possibly bending in the wrong orientation. I looked carefully at the stock and its seems fairly clear that the ribs are rip-cut from a board (two sides are smooth, the other two rough).  Putting the smooth side to the outside and inside (the rough sides fore and aft), I did 6 more successfully.

 

I also experimented with my first (test) rib by dipping it in water and working it on the (hair) curling iron to see if subsequent bending or twisting is possible and indeed it is. That will surely come in handy as I get away from amidship and on to the ribs which need convoluted twisting to properly follow the fairing.

 

It really is a revelation to learn just how pliable a material like wood can be.

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Here is where we stand...

post-25565-0-48484600-1480374063_thumb.jpeg

The last of the ribs are glued in place. I now need to fair the rib-less forms (1,2,&3) as well as the transom. Actually looks like I need to touch up the fairing on the ribs themselves. I know I had those forms near perfect, and I made sure every rib was bent and twisted to conform but I guess that's just the vaguery of wood for you.

I have to say, my first foray into bending did not go as well as I hoped. I was off to a good start using the soak and then shape over the curling iron method. A couple broken ones and I was on a streak of 6 good bends... then it really became hit and miss. In the end I overall broke 1 in 3. Then for the last 2 I tried boiling them for 15 minutes...and they went on like butter! Maybe that was just luck, I don't know but I now wish I tried that at the start. I'll be using that method for the tween frames for sure. I'm just super scared now I will run out of the cherry wood stock.

The real question now is, how to approach bending the planks? I don't have a pot big enough to boil them. :)

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Coming along nicely, Sunsanvil. I also lost a lot of the cherrywood when doing the frames. Indeed, there was barely enough of them to complete the Launch ... and I may have even needed to substitute some wood I'd saved from previous kits. In my case, I was painting the kit anyway, so this wasn't too much of an issue.

 

With regards to bending the planks, as I recall, I just soaked them in cold water and then used the curling iron to apply heat while making the bends around the bow area.

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Yea I though there was enough overcast light coming in the window but clearly the iPad didnt think so and knocked the shutter speed down on me. I really need to replace my stolen camera soon.  Maybe a boxing week sale.

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Planking continues and I must say, at this juncture, I'm not impressed with Model Shipways quality.

A good deal of the laser cuttings have what I call "burn out" where clearly the beam was out of focus, moved too slow, or something. Case in point is this garbord...

post-25565-0-41067500-1482089795_thumb.jpeg

Which translates on the model to a substantial gap which cannot be corrected.

post-25565-0-58015900-1482089806_thumb.jpeg

And if you are thinking I could have sanded that out, think again. For all MSW's talk of the planks being a little oversized, note that I've done NO reducing of the planks whatsoever (save for right at the hood ends) and this is what I get a midship:

post-25565-0-18513800-1482089819_thumb.jpeg

This is a travesty. I was thinking I would make the shutter plank from scratch but now I'm thinking I better make all three so that I don't end up with one notably wider than all the others!

So much for MSW's "invovation".

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