CharlieZardoz

Getting some info on this HMS Resolution kit

Hi all! So I know I've done this before but for the most part I've been able to determine the origin of most of the kits out there. This HMS Resolution by Corel still gets to me though, it's a rather nice looking model I think but it's definitely not the cutter from 1779 (the artist image below shows her a regular cutter) not is it Cooks ship (which was some sort of converted armed merchant ship similar to Endeavour). I like the model it's interesting but it's possible it was made or maybe it was taken from Chapman (though it's not in the Architectura Navalis book). To my knowledge cutters generally didn't have rear quarterdecks with fancy windows like this one has. It's almost a sloop or hybrid and appears too me like a ship from the 1750's-60's?  I haven't found any plans of this or any similar looking cutter in my books or Greenwich website so anyone have any thoughts? Maybe I'm wrong maybe this is the 1779 cutter but I don't think plans of her were ever taken and I'd be happy seeing examples of some ships that looked like this. What I'm really in need of is a decent comprehensive book with images for British ships, something that explains the differences between an Artois class frigate from and Ardent class ship of the line. I know they are out there (saw one once) but open to suggestions I do love getting new books. :)

post-15936-0-06756900-1481080291.jpg

post-15936-0-12690100-1481080296_thumb.jpg

post-15936-0-77037600-1481080296.jpg

post-15936-0-22448000-1481080297.jpg

post-15936-0-03788200-1481080298.jpg

post-15936-0-53463800-1481080298.jpg

post-15936-0-16757000-1481080299.jpg

thibaultron, mtaylor and Longobard like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like a strange mythical beast: head of an eagle, body of a lion, tail of a serpent! It shows features of a cutter, 12-gun sloop or brig and sixth rate. The pumps are too far aft, the swivels weirdly long - I could go on.  It's an imaginative effort loosely based on a number of different sources. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know right? I mean did such a ship even exist? Or is this just a fantasy design... It certainly looks plausible but that's possibly due to the quality the builder put into it. It most definitely would not have had cannonball shelves around the hatches. That said Lexington was a weird hybrid as well at least Feldman and Millar's depicition so im open to speculation. The closest thing I can think of is the hms Cruizer or Speedwell in the early chapter of Chapelle's big book but those have 2 masts and 3 window sterns. But that's why I feel this ship if it existed, was a mid 18th century design.

post-15936-0-72499600-1481089707_thumb.jpg

thibaultron and mtaylor like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all, so I am putting this one in the "solved" category. The Resolution kit is actually the HMS Ferrett of 1711! I was rummaging through the Chapelle books looking for pilot schooner plans and realized this plan is 100% what this kit is based off of. Ferrett is shown on page 21 of "History of American Sailing ships" and page 52 of "Search for speed under sail" which also shows the deck arrangement, the cabin door and the bilge pumps are in the exact same awkward place as on the model. I guess the model maker took the plan and added some generic figurehead of a horse and it got marketed as a cutter but this ship is a sloop from the early 18th century. It just goes to show my point that the info is out there if you dig around enough. At any rate I am happy now, on the pilot schooners lol. ;)

post-15936-0-64586600-1483626944_thumb.jpg

post-15936-0-41243300-1483626946_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding the pump placement: The ship sits 1' 6" lower at the stern so that the pumps are actually situated over the lowest part of the bilge before the angle of the floors becomes too acute to accommodate the end of the pump (ie, station 10 or 11).

 

Congratulations on finding the plan.

 

Wayne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

His Britannic Majesty's or His British Majesty's

 

Generally, such initials were not used in reference to ships of the Royal Navy prior to 1825, although the fully written out form is easily found.  As a technicality, "HMS" would not be used of a ship prior to the nineteenth century, but "His Majesty's Ship" would.  For the sake of convenience, HMS is used for eighteenth century ships and the Royal Museum has no problem with doing so.  This information comes to me via Allan Yedlinski on the basis of his correspondence with David Antscherl and John Harland. 

 

I will say I found "H.M.S. Theseus" in Nelson's Journal of 1797.

 

Wayne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all, so I am putting this one in the "solved" category. The Resolution kit is actually the HMS Ferrett of 1711! I was rummaging through the Chapelle books looking for pilot schooner plans and realized this plan is 100% what this kit is based off of. Ferrett is shown on page 21 of "History of American Sailing ships" and page 52 of "Search for speed under sail" which also shows the deck arrangement, the cabin door and the bilge pumps are in the exact same awkward place as on the model. I guess the model maker took the plan and added some generic figurehead of a horse and it got marketed as a cutter but this ship is a sloop from the early 18th century. It just goes to show my point that the info is out there if you dig around enough. At any rate I am happy now, on the pilot schooners lol. ;)

 

Good find.  Given that there were lines plans available for the Ferret (see http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/84668.html Description:  ZAZ4877 - Scale: 1:48 Plan showing the body plan, sheer lines, and longitudinal half-breadth for Ferret (1711), a 10-gun single-masted cutter-rigged Sloop), then the reconstruction by Chapelle (noted on his drawings above), it was a good target for a model design.  The name may have been changed to reflect something a bit later in time and a bit more famous?  Of interest is this note on the Ferret from the NMM - Originally single-masted sloop (cutter-rigged), later altered to a two-masted schooner-rig.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wayne quotes '...note on the Ferret from the NMM - Originally single-masted sloop (cutter-rigged), later altered to a two-masted schooner-rig.'

In this time frame a hull could be rigged in various ways, depending on her work or mission, the Captain's or Navy Board's judgement or the conditions where she would be traveling.  Sloop, cutter and schooner all are different rigs, but could be at different times be seen on the same hull.  Brig, Brigantine and Hermaphrodite are another category that is confused and confusing for the researcher or builder.

The kit manufacturers may not be aware of this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love the conversation this has sparked! But yes the kit could have been made before Chapelle's reconstruction even was made so someone must have taken those lines and then did their own attempt at windows figurehead. Even Chapelle has two stern variations in those images above so its all conjecture really. As far as the masts I do wonder if one had any particular benefit over the other this seems like quite a heavy ship for a sloop rig no?

thibaultron and mtaylor like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Charlie, if you're looking for a new book, try the Oregon Historical Society, 

Log of the Union: John Boit's Remarkable Voyage to the Northwest Coast and Around the World, 1794-1796 Boit, John; Hayes, Edmund; Jackson, Hewitt R.

John Boit, Capt., edited for this publication by Edmond Hayes, illustrations by Hewitt Jackson.  Right time frame, right size and type of vessel, several drawings and plans.

Many copies online, most under $10.00.  Maybe you can find a copy in NY and drive out to pick it up.  :-)

mtaylor likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I stand corrected. Thank you Talos. I saw the same drawings in The Search for Speed Under Sail from 1967, so assumed that this was new then.

mtaylor likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.