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Bluenose kits. Comparison.


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19 replies to this topic

#1
probablynot

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Is the Model Shipways Bluenose (MS2130) the same kit as the Billing Boats Bluenose (B576)?

My guess is, probably not.  So, is there any way of comparing them?  Can anyone tell me that one kit is 'better' than the other?  Does one have better explanations than the other?  Or better basic materials?  Or better accessories?

I've seen the Billing one for sale at prices between £200 and £126.  The Model Shipways one seems currently to be on sale for $168 (plus delivery, I suppose), except that Model Expo's stock = nil!

Or perhaps I shouldn't be asking this question in MSW?  Do we consider it invidious to make such comparisons here?


<p>Brian

Building: Corel's Half Moon  http://modelshipworl...scale-150-wood/

Previous builds - Constructo Enterprise 1799'. http://modelshipworl...ructo-wood-151/

La Petite Nella (aka the AL "Mare Nostrum"). http://modelshipworl...blynot-al-wood/ ,

and a 1:8 scratch-build of 'Anastasia', my old sailing kayak from back in the 1940s. http://modelshipworl...-my-1949-kayak/<p>

Other kits waiting: - Model Shipways HMS Bounty Launch.


#2
SteveM

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Both manufacturers have loyal followings. I don't know a lot about Billings, but I do know that Model Expo generally is accurate, has good plans, instructions, and excellent support. The price right now is $140 USD using the code "SWEET13". I'd not worry about ordering while out of stock, they're constantly shifting their manufacturing around to restock what has run out and they will get to the Bluenose.

 

In the past we frequently discussed which kit was better and why, and though there were sometimes differences of opinions it wasn't ever a problem.



#3
bhermann

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Brian -  my only experience is with the Model Shipways kit.  I can say that the plans match up very nicely with the historical photos on the ship and contain all the detail you could possible want to include, if you are of a mind to do so.  The detail is not going to confuse someone who is looking to do a generic build, but is there if you study the plans closely.

 

From a support perspective Model Expo has been flawless in replacing parts that I have broken, parts that weren't in enough supply (I an out of brass strip material because I have a LOT of brass details in my build), and parts that were missed in the kit (I think there was one of those).

 

The Billings and Model Shipways kits are definitely not the same.  I have been very happy with the materials and plans on the MS kit.  As a first time wood builder, I was somewhat shocked by the lack of detailed step-by-step instruction details, but that is more of a "wood vs. plastic" comparison.  The build booklet included with the kit seems to be one of the more informative ones around, based on what I have seen and read.

 

Bob


Current build -- MS Bluenose

Future build - MS Flying Fish

 

"A ship is safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for." - William G. T. Shedd


#4
probablynot

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Thanks Steve and Bob -

I'm very tempted by the Model Shipways/Expo kit, and I've emailed Model Expo about shipping charges.
I'm also aware that there are Bluenose II (or 2) kits.  The models appear to have a shorter LOA.  Is this just because the scale is different, or because they're kits for a Bluenose II that was shorter than the original Bluenose?

My current (and first) build is about 16" long, and I chose it deliberately because [a] it didn't have the complication of tall masts and sails, and [b] it wasn't too big.  I'm making progress with it, and greatly enjoying the process, but I want my next project to [a] have sails, and [b] be bigger.  If the Model Shipways Bluenose kit is lacking in any way regarding materials, I think I could handle that (ie, I could locate and buy alternatives).  But if it's lacking in instructions, guess where I'll be coming for help!

 

Oh, and the kit descriptions don't seem to mention whether they include the fabric for the sails.  Seems obvious to me that sails ought to be included, but I'd appreciate confirmation that I'm right!


<p>Brian

Building: Corel's Half Moon  http://modelshipworl...scale-150-wood/

Previous builds - Constructo Enterprise 1799'. http://modelshipworl...ructo-wood-151/

La Petite Nella (aka the AL "Mare Nostrum"). http://modelshipworl...blynot-al-wood/ ,

and a 1:8 scratch-build of 'Anastasia', my old sailing kayak from back in the 1940s. http://modelshipworl...-my-1949-kayak/<p>

Other kits waiting: - Model Shipways HMS Bounty Launch.


#5
trippwj

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The Model Shipways (Model Expo) kit includes cotton fabric for the sails.  The Model expo kit is Plank on Bulkhead construction, while the Billings in Plank of Frame according to the listings.

 

For Model Expo, Three diameters of rigging line and cotton sailcloth ensure an impressive model.

 

The Billings kit does not indicate whether it has sail cloth.

This kit features: plank on frame construction, laser cut plywood keel and frame components, wooden superstructure and decks, hull and deck fittings in brass and/or plastic, Mast and spars, rigging cord in various sizes. Includes Full size plan sheets and an instruction manual with English Text.


Wayne

Neither should a ship rely on one small anchor, nor should life rest on a single hope.
Epictetus


#6
probablynot

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Ah!   So Wayne, is there a difference between plank-on-bulkhead and plank-on-frame?  You're getting me into deep water here!


<p>Brian

Building: Corel's Half Moon  http://modelshipworl...scale-150-wood/

Previous builds - Constructo Enterprise 1799'. http://modelshipworl...ructo-wood-151/

La Petite Nella (aka the AL "Mare Nostrum"). http://modelshipworl...blynot-al-wood/ ,

and a 1:8 scratch-build of 'Anastasia', my old sailing kayak from back in the 1940s. http://modelshipworl...-my-1949-kayak/<p>

Other kits waiting: - Model Shipways HMS Bounty Launch.


#7
trippwj

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There is a difference, but when I look at the instruction set for the Billing's version it is actually a plank on bulkhead style. 

 

POB (Plank on Bulkhead) there is a solid piece where the frames would go, while a true POF (Plank on frame) there are essentially frames such as would be found in a true boat. 

 

The Billing's instructions can be found here, while the Model expo instructions can be found here.

 

Looking at the instruction sets may aid in making your decision!


Wayne

Neither should a ship rely on one small anchor, nor should life rest on a single hope.
Epictetus


#8
probablynot

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Oh, how glad I am that I discovered Model Ship World!

Thank you Wayne, Bob, Steve

I think Model Expo are about to make a new sale!


<p>Brian

Building: Corel's Half Moon  http://modelshipworl...scale-150-wood/

Previous builds - Constructo Enterprise 1799'. http://modelshipworl...ructo-wood-151/

La Petite Nella (aka the AL "Mare Nostrum"). http://modelshipworl...blynot-al-wood/ ,

and a 1:8 scratch-build of 'Anastasia', my old sailing kayak from back in the 1940s. http://modelshipworl...-my-1949-kayak/<p>

Other kits waiting: - Model Shipways HMS Bounty Launch.


#9
bhermann

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Brian - one note about the Model Shipways sail material.  The cloth I received 6 years ago was very heavy and I will not be using it.  There may have been changes made to what is included since then - and it isn't that hard to come up with some lighter material - just thought you should be aware.

 

Bob


Current build -- MS Bluenose

Future build - MS Flying Fish

 

"A ship is safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for." - William G. T. Shedd


#10
shortgrass

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From a litttle bit of research I have done, the Model Shipways kit of the Bluenose is more accurate than the Billings and from what I understand the instructions are better.

Just my two cents.  Good luck with whatever you choose.

Dave



#11
probablynot

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... Model Expo ...  price right now is $140 USD using the code "SWEET13" ...


Yes, and I SO wanted to order it!  But the charge for delivery to the UK, via Fedex, was going to be $123.89, and the UK customs would doubtless have charged the equivalent of another $28.    Equivalent to £188 sterling, altogether.  Not unreasonable for a big kit, I know, but my piggy-bank needs a few more pennies in it before I can place an order!  I'll keep looking.


<p>Brian

Building: Corel's Half Moon  http://modelshipworl...scale-150-wood/

Previous builds - Constructo Enterprise 1799'. http://modelshipworl...ructo-wood-151/

La Petite Nella (aka the AL "Mare Nostrum"). http://modelshipworl...blynot-al-wood/ ,

and a 1:8 scratch-build of 'Anastasia', my old sailing kayak from back in the 1940s. http://modelshipworl...-my-1949-kayak/<p>

Other kits waiting: - Model Shipways HMS Bounty Launch.


#12
SteveM

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Ouch! That is the cheapest shipping method to the UK? Well, you could always scratch build. ;)



#13
probablynot

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Well, it's the rate that Model Expo quoted.
I've got a secondary query.
Billing (and also Model Shipways) have a Bluenose kit, and a Bluenose II kit.  For some reason the Bluenose II kits are smaller scale (1:100 instead of 1:64).  That led me to assume that the 'II' suffix simply meant smaller scale.  However, a bit of reading-up led me to the fact that there really IS a Bluenose II - apparently a rather recent rebuild of the original Bluenose, which still exists and does a grand job in the tourism industry.
So are the Bluenose II kits based on Bluenose II and not on the original Bluenose?  And does it matter?
 


<p>Brian

Building: Corel's Half Moon  http://modelshipworl...scale-150-wood/

Previous builds - Constructo Enterprise 1799'. http://modelshipworl...ructo-wood-151/

La Petite Nella (aka the AL "Mare Nostrum"). http://modelshipworl...blynot-al-wood/ ,

and a 1:8 scratch-build of 'Anastasia', my old sailing kayak from back in the 1940s. http://modelshipworl...-my-1949-kayak/<p>

Other kits waiting: - Model Shipways HMS Bounty Launch.


#14
Elder Jim

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Brian,

 

I built the Billings "Bluenose II" kit as a first build several years ago; it is a POB kit and at the time I was somewhat unhappy with the quality and amount of instructions, but have since found out that most kits unfortunately seem to assume that all builders are experienced.  Billing's makes a big deal in their literature about the "instructional CD"; it's useless!

 

That said, I finished the build and am happy with the results. The quality of the wood was good, and it does include the sailcloth. The rigging plans are a bit sketchy, but if you study them closely you can figure it out. However, I was glad I had 50+ years experience with sailing sail boats, but not in schooners; the rigging was somewhat intuitive, but there is enough information available on line and help on this website that you should be able to handle it. I think the Model Shipways kit is a plank on frame--a lot more detail and work, but their instructional booklets are excellent.  I remade the deck to make it look more like the original Bluenose, by putting a fish hold hatch between the masts and eliminating all those automaticly inflatable life raft canisters on the cabin top.  The center cabin was for the students they took out on sails and the canisters were a Coast Guard requirement for a commercial vessel carrying passengers for hire. You may want to consider not adding the sails; they hide a lot of your rigging work, and if it will be displayed near an outside door or in a drafty area, it will try to take sail!

 

For the record the original ship was lost on a reef in the Carribbean, I believe in the late 40's; they salvaged only the engines which had been added and were fairly new. The Bluenose II is now in drydock undergoing a rebuild.

 

Jim

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Jim

Real boat: Island Packet 32 cutter

Ship/Boat models:

Billings Boats "Bluenose II" changed to look more like original

R/C Victoria Sailboat

Mamoli "Yacht America" - abandoned

Bluejacket "Grand Banks Dory" in process

Model Shipways Fishing Smack "Emma C. Berry" in process


#15
MSzwarc

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Bluenose is the original fishing vessel built in Lunenburg, NS in 1921. She was also raced in the International Fishermens races. Bluenose II was built in 1963, also in Lunenburg, as a replacement for Bluenose as a national symbol of Canada. Bluenose II is built on the same hull lines and sail plan as Bluenose, but the deck arrangement and below decks are completely different, as she was built to be a floating museum and cruise ship rather than a fisherman and racer. Additionally, she has 2 auxiliary diesel engines, as well as other safety gear required by modern maritime law, much of which is visible on deck.

 

The MS Bluenose plans show both the deck arrangement used while fishing, and the stripped down deck arrangement used while racing. I don't know anything about the billings Bluenose kit, but the AL Bluenose II kit is way out of scale. John Earl, however, has made his practicum on building the AL Bluenose II kit into something a lot closer to scale available for free download on his website.


Mike
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scratchbuilt Grand Banks dory

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#16
Rich.f

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Hi Brian, I have just brought the Billings Blue Nose just before the closure of Model Zone Company. I have not stared it but been looking at the plans they are about 2/5" out or close to that. Looks like a good kit. Dead eyes and blocks are plastic. insturctions are pure text on a few sheet of paper. with 2 full size plans.. that it for now ill start the build of this once the Enterprise it complete.ill keep you updated in info if i can

 

rich


Rich.

 

Builds in Progress:   HMS Victory

                                

Completed Builds:   Constucto Enterprise

 

Future Builds


#17
probablynot

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Thanks for the info Rich.  I have to confess my kit lustings are a bit fickle right now - hey I'm new to all this and when I look around it's like being a kid in a sweetshop!  (er, a candy store?)

The Bluenose attracted me at first just because it was big and looked relatively simple.  I've refined my desires in the last few months.  The 1799 Enterprise will keep me busy for a while (and I'll be doing a concurrent scratch-build of a model of my 1950s sailing kayak).  When I get close to finishing those builds, I'm thinking it could be Mamoli's 'Mary' as a next project.

 

But OK, thanks to you and to everyone who's posted here, I've now understood the difference between the Bluenose and the Bluenose II.   Or 2.

 

I'm not sure about the logic/ethics of building a model of a replica (ie, of Bluenose II).  Almost as depressing as building a model of a modern cruise ship!


<p>Brian

Building: Corel's Half Moon  http://modelshipworl...scale-150-wood/

Previous builds - Constructo Enterprise 1799'. http://modelshipworl...ructo-wood-151/

La Petite Nella (aka the AL "Mare Nostrum"). http://modelshipworl...blynot-al-wood/ ,

and a 1:8 scratch-build of 'Anastasia', my old sailing kayak from back in the 1940s. http://modelshipworl...-my-1949-kayak/<p>

Other kits waiting: - Model Shipways HMS Bounty Launch.


#18
Rich.f

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Hey Brian. Yeah Sweet Shop to us LOL I live in Portsmouth, But Candy  sounds better. I have the bluenose to finish after the Enterprice which is close ( this also my very first build) I also what to do the Caldercraft Victory

 

 Caldercraft HMS Victory 1781 1:72 Nelsons Navy, Heritage Series, Model Boat Kit, model boat for static display, wooden model ship Cornwall Model Boats Ltd

 

I might do another Ship the size of the Enterprise first. but so want the Victory..

 

Well what every you build i will look forward to watching, as your enterprise is taking shape and looking splendid

 

Rich 


Edited by Archicar, 12 September 2013 - 10:24 PM.

  • probablynot likes this

Rich.

 

Builds in Progress:   HMS Victory

                                

Completed Builds:   Constucto Enterprise

 

Future Builds


#19
probablynot

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I know Portsmouth, Rich.  Back in the early 1960s I lived in Waterlooville, and I worked in Portsmouth Dockyard.  I was in the Admiral Superintendent's office, just under the bows of HMS Victory.  Best years of my life!


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<p>Brian

Building: Corel's Half Moon  http://modelshipworl...scale-150-wood/

Previous builds - Constructo Enterprise 1799'. http://modelshipworl...ructo-wood-151/

La Petite Nella (aka the AL "Mare Nostrum"). http://modelshipworl...blynot-al-wood/ ,

and a 1:8 scratch-build of 'Anastasia', my old sailing kayak from back in the 1940s. http://modelshipworl...-my-1949-kayak/<p>

Other kits waiting: - Model Shipways HMS Bounty Launch.


#20
twintrow

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Brian

Cornwall sells a couple of Model Shipways kits, maybe they could get the Bluenose and for less shipping costs since they are already in the neighborhood.

May take a while longer if they wait to combine with other orders for MS first to save on thier shipping costs.

Just a thought

Tom


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