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18th Century Longboat by Mike Y - Model Shipways - 1:48


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#1
Mike Y

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It is second build, first one was a similar model - English Pinnace
This time I will make it slower, no rush. And will try to avoid all mistakes done on Pinnace :)

I will use kit details for frames and keel, and boxwood for everything else.
No paint, no stain, only natural wood colour. No friesers, and no paintings on a transom also. Instead, it would be planked and treenailed.
Sorry for skipping the decorations, I just prefer the simple design.

For a start - traditional photos of every longboat builder - parts sanded from laser char, keel and falsekeel, simple building jig to hold it straight.

image.jpg

image.jpg

image.jpg

First pinnace mistake avoided - bevel on a false keel is smaller, different angle, to gently handle a plank on an angle specified by frames. Sounds obvious, but on a pinnace I made a bevel with a wrong angle, and there was a small gap between garboard plank and keel.

First impression - it is sooooooo small! Very nice scale, it is big enough to make it with a good precision (I hope), but fits into a palm. Should be very cute when done :)

Edited by Mike Y, 19 May 2014 - 11:17 PM.

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#2
Pops

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Mike, I am very interested since I am working on this right now, and having some planking issues.  (Probably overthinking it.)

 

Please can you give lots and lots of details and pictures when planking?

 

I learn best by seeing it done as opposed to reading it.

 

I have put on the first two sheer planks and the gar plank.  But when I look at the pictures in the instruction book and compare what the instructions say to the build something doesn't make sense.  I don't have a camera yet so I can't show you what I mean, but I can follow your pictures and see how

 

Biggest issue is the plank after the gar plank.  


Edited by Pops, 19 May 2014 - 11:27 PM.

Previous build(mostly) - 18th Century Longboat

 

Current build - Bounty Launch

 

Next build - San Francisco by AL

Future build - Red Dragon

Future build - Mayflower from Model Expo


#3
Mike Y

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Sure! However, I'm also not a planking expert, and will use methods described in some other build logs on that forum, like http://modelshipworl...s-148-tri-club/ or http://modelshipworl...model-shipways/

#4
Pops

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I was looking at that first link you posted and I think I see what I've been doing wrong.

 

1st my garboard plank has too abrupt a curve to it.  Gonna have to remake those.  No big deal.   :rolleyes:

 

2nd I noticed that Bob dropped a tick mark on the bulkhead forward of where the garboard plank begins which solves the other problem I was having.

 

Also, I noticed that after 3 or 4 planks up the downward curve of the planks disappears which solves the last problem I was envisioning.  

 

Still want to see lots of pics tho!   :P


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Previous build(mostly) - 18th Century Longboat

 

Current build - Bounty Launch

 

Next build - San Francisco by AL

Future build - Red Dragon

Future build - Mayflower from Model Expo


#5
Mike Y

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Actually never understood the idea of mounting the gardboard plank first. It is quite difficult to get its shape right. I planked pinnace from top to the bottom, and the gardboard was shaped only when I had just 3-4 plank layers left. Then you clearly see remaining width, have enough planks to make fine corrections, and can easilly shape the gardboard as needed.

Installing gardboard plank right on the start will require a really good calculations and intuition..

But, again, disclaimer - I'm not a planking expert.. Sorry..



#6
gjdale

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Whew, that was quite a rush to get over here from your Pinnace log Mike! Okay, made it in time for a front row seat. Mark, be a good fellow and pass me a coldie and some popcorn please.
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Grant
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Current builds:

 

1949 Chris Craft 19' Racing Runabout - Dumas - Radio

 

Previous builds: Bomb Vessel Granado, 1742 - Cross Section - ScratchbuildHMS Victory (Mamoli 1:90), Cutty Sark, Armed Pinnace, Bounty, Santa Maria

At another place: Stephenson's Rocket (OcCre 1:24) (click the title to follow the link)

 

 

In the Gallery: Lancia Armata 1803, Bomb Vessel Granada, 1742 Cross Section


#7
Floyd Kershner

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Grant you beat me! You must have some serious power under the hood. As soon as I heard of the opening of this log I headed straight for here! :P

 

So Mike you decided to use the keel & stem from the kit. One suggestion - As noted in some of the other logs the Stem is very fragile and likely to break at the head. Since the grain runs the wrong way. Also did you paint the Bass parts with WOP as suggested by Chuck? It sure helps with making things stronger. I can only imagine that once we get to the point of removing the bulkheads this will be a benefit.


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Current Builds - AL Harvey, 18th Century Longboat, Amati Endeavor

Completed Builds - MS Bluenose, Panart BatteStation Cross section, Endevour J Boat Half Hull, Windego Half Hull, R/C T37 Breezing Along, R/C Victoria 32, SolCat 18

On the shelf - Panart San Felipe, Euromodel Ajax, C.Mamoli America, MS Syren

 

Its a sailor's Life for me! :10_1_10:


#8
Mike Y

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Floyd, no, I didn't applied poly. I will apply it later when things are done. No feeling that it's fragile. Of course, you should handle it with care.. Plus the layer of poly is sooo thin and not so strong, that it will not protect stem from breaking if I, say, hit it with the hand.

But also there is no load on a stem. While planking, I clamp the hull using temporary piece of wood glued to frames on top, and frames are connected with each other:

Photo 2014-01-02 22 39 44.jpg

I don't have exact photo, but imagine a piece of scrap wood glued right on a center. 

 

It's quite a strong construction, hull is flipped upside down and clamped in a table vice, and then only way to break stem is to hit it accidentally

Photo 2014-01-17 20 34 29.jpg


Edited by Mike Y, 20 May 2014 - 02:37 PM.


#9
Mike Y

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I placed the first 2 planks from the shear line down first according to the instructions. I then drew tick marks down to the keel as described in Chucks instructions. When drawing the tick marks be sure to insert the card stock into the bevel of the false keel. The tick marks at the keel will show you the shape of the garboard plank, I think. At least it did for me.

 

Stuntflyer, thanks for coming! Your build log is one of my references! Understood the idea, will try.

However, question still applies. What is the benefit of mounting the gardboard plank early on? I installed it quite late on Pinnace, and failed to find any problem caused by it. Or I'm probably just missing something, because lots of experienced builders mount it as early as possible, so it should make some sense. Would appreciate your thoughts!



#10
Stuntflyer

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Mike, I did it early on because Chuck said so in his instructions and I wasn't about to question the master. Perhaps he will give us some insight here. I will say that placing the garboard early on does a lot to strengthen the overall structure. Remember also that you will have to reduce the number of tick marks forward of the garboard plank by 1 or 2 depending on which bulkhead.


Edited by Stuntflyer, 20 May 2014 - 04:18 PM.

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Current builds - Mayflower (MS) , HM Cutter Cheerful - 1806

 

Completed builds - 18 Century Longboat (MS)

 

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#11
Chuck

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If you line out the hull with tick marks for the planking,  you can determine the width of each strake at each bulkhead.  What I like to do but couldnt in the kit instructions,  (pre milled strips and all) would be to place the first sheer strake into position.  Then line off the hull from the bottom of the shear strake to the keel NOT INCLUDING THE GARBOARD.  After you line off the hull it will reveal the shape of the garboard....this can be cut and positioned early so that you will have a consistent remaining space to plank.  Planking the garboard early allows you the opportunity to see the negative unplanked space remaining and see how that space runs bow to stern.   If you see that negative space getting too wide or too narrow in places...it probably means your garboard is shaped incorrectly.  By lining off the hull you can also avoid any guesswork.

 

See Bob's build log.   I would do it exactly the same way...in fact this is exactly how I planked the hull except I do add the shear strake first.  It strengthens the hull and allows me to create the shear curve I want before lining off the rest of the hull.

 

http://modelshipworl...tri-club/page-2

 

Chuck


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#12
Mike Y

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Thanks Chuck! Now I understand. Will do a proper marking this time :)

#13
Pops

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Yeah, me too!

 

Didn't understand the concept of lining off and also the idea of dropping tick marks.  After putting on the first 2 sheer planks, I was looking at the rest and wondering how to get 10 planks to fill the first really small bulkhead without tapering them to a point.

 

Also, looking at the hull with only the 2 sheer planks and the garplank, I was envisioning ending up with a small triangular section un-planked, considering that the upper blanks "bend" upward, and the 2nd plank up from the garboard must "bend" downward.

 

I'm gonna take the garboard planks off and line the bulkheads, maybe that'll show me some sense.

 

And I did look at Bob's build, that's what helped me see what I was doing wrong.

 

Thank you Chuck and Bob.


Previous build(mostly) - 18th Century Longboat

 

Current build - Bounty Launch

 

Next build - San Francisco by AL

Future build - Red Dragon

Future build - Mayflower from Model Expo


#14
Floyd Kershner

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Mike - The grain on the Stem does not run up & down as it should. So there is a very real chance that the top (or head) of the stem will break off. this is mentioned in several other logs. I took my que from Chuck S. in San Diego. Also the WOP does strength the wood. this is the reason I painted a couple of coats on both the stem and bulkheads.


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Current Builds - AL Harvey, 18th Century Longboat, Amati Endeavor

Completed Builds - MS Bluenose, Panart BatteStation Cross section, Endevour J Boat Half Hull, Windego Half Hull, R/C T37 Breezing Along, R/C Victoria 32, SolCat 18

On the shelf - Panart San Felipe, Euromodel Ajax, C.Mamoli America, MS Syren

 

Its a sailor's Life for me! :10_1_10:


#15
Mike Y

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Floyd, maybe we had kits from different production batches, in my kit the stem have a proper grain direction, and it's not fragile at all. But thanks for a heads up!

 

Actually decided to make stem and keel out of boxwood. The reason is different - stem is a bit grey, and it's not something you can sand away. It's just how basswood looks like when it's cross grain:

Photo 2014-05-20 20 47 25.jpg

 

It's quite visible on a contrast with keel, which have another grain direction. Looks dirty.

So making it out of boxwood.


Edited by Mike Y, 21 May 2014 - 08:05 AM.

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#16
Mike Y

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Ok, boxwood stem and keel looks really better, I actually did not expected how better!

image.jpg

Sanded it with 400 => 600 => 1200 => 2000 grits. After 2000 grit castello starts to change the color to a deeper yellow, and starts to have a shine. Really interesting transformation! Need to experiment a lot when it would be a time to apply some protective finish:
image.jpg

Used another kind of scarf joint for keel. I know it is not the joint that should be really used on a keel, but it just looks nicer, and just wanted to practice that tricky joint on such scale. Looks ok, or maybe I should have made it longer? Right now joint is done on an angle around 60deg, but maybe something closer to 70-75 would be better (if joint length is three times joint width).
What is the golden rule of thumb for such joints?

Close-up:
image.jpg

Next step is frame fitting. Frames are gently sanded, and ready to go! :)
image.jpg
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#17
Pops

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Liking all the pictures Mike!


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Previous build(mostly) - 18th Century Longboat

 

Current build - Bounty Launch

 

Next build - San Francisco by AL

Future build - Red Dragon

Future build - Mayflower from Model Expo


#18
Floyd Kershner

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Mike I am impressed with your scarf joint. Can you share some more details about how you made it?


Current Builds - AL Harvey, 18th Century Longboat, Amati Endeavor

Completed Builds - MS Bluenose, Panart BatteStation Cross section, Endevour J Boat Half Hull, Windego Half Hull, R/C T37 Breezing Along, R/C Victoria 32, SolCat 18

On the shelf - Panart San Felipe, Euromodel Ajax, C.Mamoli America, MS Syren

 

Its a sailor's Life for me! :10_1_10:


#19
Mike Y

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I used this photo from somebody's build log (sorry, forgot which one):

Photo 2014-02-11 23 29 49.jpg

 

When doing that scarf, the trick to avoid misalignment is to use a constant and predefined cut depth, because it will affect not only the "cutoff" parts, but the edges of the planks.

And keep in mind that it's a fully mirrored joint, so both sides could be cut clamped together.

 

Here is the sketch, notice that all red lines are equal (representing the cut depts).

Screen Shot 2014-05-22 at 08.26.54.png

 

 

But maybe there is some easy trick to cut that scarf quick, clean and precise. I did just a few scarfs, and hope that some experienced builder can share a trick to make such scarfs fast and easy :)


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#20
Floyd Kershner

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Thank you!


Current Builds - AL Harvey, 18th Century Longboat, Amati Endeavor

Completed Builds - MS Bluenose, Panart BatteStation Cross section, Endevour J Boat Half Hull, Windego Half Hull, R/C T37 Breezing Along, R/C Victoria 32, SolCat 18

On the shelf - Panart San Felipe, Euromodel Ajax, C.Mamoli America, MS Syren

 

Its a sailor's Life for me! :10_1_10:





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