Jump to content

HMS Victory by dafi - Heller - PLASTIC - To Victory and beyond ...


Recommended Posts

The question is: would Nelson recognise this entry-port....

 

There is a nice model in NMM showing Victory as she was supposed to be n 1803 without the entry-ports.http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/66474.html

There is alos a model that shows victory as she was supposed to be in 1805 sith entryports and even a platform outside the hull....

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/66475.html

 

The one without is assumed to be the contemporary model

 

 

Jan

 

 

Note the important wording in the description on the 1803 model - "Model also shows further modifications which were proposed after Trafalgar which were not carried out".  Even contemporary models represent many different things, probably in a world before CAD design it was the most effective way to convey ideas for real world discussion rather than attempting to be a definitive reference manual for how the ships looked at a particular time.  All this is speculation without definitive proof...which is why its so fun because no-one is wrong :-)

Edited by Beef Wellington

Cheers,
 
Jason


"Which it will be ready when it is ready!"
 
In the shipyard:

HMS Jason (c.1794: Artois Class 38 gun frigate)

Queen Anne Royal Barge (c.1700)

Finished:

HMS Snake (c.1797: Cruizer Class, ship rigged sloop)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please also see http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/333-side-entry-ports-on-british-first-and-second-rates/#entry109230

 

There is a copy, for the content of this discussion not to be lost in my thread only. 

 

:-)

 

XXXDAn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And I still do not give up the dream, that one day my lower gundeck will be finished, I managed to prepare some ...

 

Victory-130806_0195.jpg

 

... and to do some more ...

 

Victory-130806_0196.jpg

 

... to come closer to this dream of mine.

 

XXXDAn

 

Edited by dafi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The lower gundeck ...

 

.. perhaps ...

 

;-)

 

XXXDAn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i love the stern decoration in this photo 

 

i will remove this post - if your unhappy with me posting it

post-846-0-07983600-1381321252_thumb.jpg

Edited by Kevin

Its all part of Kev's journey, bit like going to the dark side, but with the lights on
 

All the best

Kevin :omg:


SAY NO TO PIRACY. SUPPORT ORIGINAL IDEAS AND MANUFACTURERS.
KEEP IT REAL!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the build table

HMS Indefatigable 1794 by Kevin - Vanguard Models - 1:64 - Feb 2023 

 

 

HMHS Britannic by Kevin 

SD 14  - Marcle Models - 1/70 - March 2022 -  Bluebell - Flower Class - Revel - 1/72   U552 German U Boat - Trumpeter - 1/48  Amerigo Vespucci     1/84 - Panart-   HMS Enterprise  -CAF -  1/48     

Finished     

St-Nectan-Mountfleet-models-steam-trawler-1/32 - Completed June 2020

HMS Victory - Caldercraft/Jotika - 1/72 - Finished   Dorade renamed Dora by Kevin - Amati - 1/20 - Completed March 2021 

Stage Coach 1848 - Artesania Latina - 1/10 -Finished Lady Eleanor by Kevin - FINISHED - Vanguard Models - 1/64 - Fifie fishing boat

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, leave it, it is a great picture!

 

XXXDAn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

would that be the design after they closed the stern in and then before the big repair

Its all part of Kev's journey, bit like going to the dark side, but with the lights on
 

All the best

Kevin :omg:


SAY NO TO PIRACY. SUPPORT ORIGINAL IDEAS AND MANUFACTURERS.
KEEP IT REAL!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the build table

HMS Indefatigable 1794 by Kevin - Vanguard Models - 1:64 - Feb 2023 

 

 

HMHS Britannic by Kevin 

SD 14  - Marcle Models - 1/70 - March 2022 -  Bluebell - Flower Class - Revel - 1/72   U552 German U Boat - Trumpeter - 1/48  Amerigo Vespucci     1/84 - Panart-   HMS Enterprise  -CAF -  1/48     

Finished     

St-Nectan-Mountfleet-models-steam-trawler-1/32 - Completed June 2020

HMS Victory - Caldercraft/Jotika - 1/72 - Finished   Dorade renamed Dora by Kevin - Amati - 1/20 - Completed March 2021 

Stage Coach 1848 - Artesania Latina - 1/10 -Finished Lady Eleanor by Kevin - FINISHED - Vanguard Models - 1/64 - Fifie fishing boat

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Note the important wording in the description on the 1803 model - "Model also shows further modifications which were proposed after Trafalgar which were not carried out".  

As Wellington mentioned above - this line submits the model to suggestions of your wildest dreams ;-)

 

XXXDAn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A few thoughts, if I may.   The photos reference by Jan have interest in that the model with the entry port doesn't have the boarding ladder going above the entry port.  As I recall, entry ports were for the exclusive use of the brass.  Everyone else had to go up and over the top.  Is this a faulty assumption?  The model says "yes, everyone boarded the ship via the entry port".  

 

The other two pic show "without entry ports".... if they weren't there, and there's only 28 guns, which ports would have been empty?  Unless the very formost were used as a bridle port.  Curiously, many of the contemporary models and paintings show the ports, yet the photo from 1909 doesn't.

 

A pity we don't have a time machine....

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So the pot is empty ...

 

Victory-131014_0235.jpg

 

... time to do something more important and worthy ...

 

Victory-131014_0233.jpg

 

... as both scuttles for the vent trunks were mere black holes. So they got their wooden cases and look much more in tune now  :-)

 

Victory-131014_0231.jpg

 

And here some fresh impressions from the shipyard.

 

Victory-131014_0236.jpg

 

Victory-131014_0239.jpg

 

Victory-131014_0246.jpg

 

Victory-131014_0250.jpg

 

Good night, Daniel
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fantastic, Daniel.  

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

Link to comment
Share on other sites

splendid work Daniel.......the rigging looks great!    so life-like  :)

I yam wot I yam!

finished builds:
Billings Nordkap 476 / Billings Cux 87 / Billings Mary Ann / Billings AmericA - reissue
Billings Regina - bashed into the Susan A / Andrea Gail 1:20 - semi scratch w/ Billing instructions
M&M Fun Ship - semi scratch build / Gundalow - scratch build / Jeanne D'Arc - Heller
Phylly C & Denny-Zen - the Lobsie twins - bashed & semi scratch dual build

Billing T78 Norden

 

in dry dock:
Billing's Gothenborg 1:100 / Billing's Boulogne Etaples 1:20
Billing's Half Moon 1:40 - some scratch required
Revell U.S.S. United States 1:96 - plastic/ wood modified / Academy Titanic 1:400
Trawler Syborn - semi scratch / Holiday Harbor dual build - semi scratch

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a question, not on your fantastic technique, but on the reality of gun-handling....

 

Quite often, you see ringbolts placed in the deck, and a tackle rigged (sometimes even two) to haul back the gun in order to sponge out and load.

Seeing how far the gun has to be run backwards to get the sponge in the barrel, I was wondering: were should the ringbolts be placed to get the system working?

 

Jan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you Sirs :-)

 

Jan, the tackle in the back usually is a single one (only the French had a double tackle for 36 or 46 ponders). It was hooked into the ring that was as much at the center line as possible. At the Vic, the plans show the rings more or less at the line that coaming/gratings give.

At the last picture with the reloading of the gun, the rings are situated just beside the anchor cable, which is just enough for the tackle to work.

 

Here two more of the rings to be seen.

 

etch_Victory-bolts_9249.jpg

 

XXXDAn

Edited by dafi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jan,

 

Dafi is correct. The ringbolts were normally positioned as near to the centreline, behind each gun, as was possible. This would give the tackle the maximum amount of room to operate and be effective. However, depending on the gun's position, I am not sure that the guns always entirely cleared their ports, and there are instances of the rammer and sponger having to operate with their implements out of the port. Incidentally, the gun's own recoil would normally return it to the loading position.

 

Regarding the entry ports, Goodwin in his 'Construction and Fitting of the Sailing Man of War', says that they were fitted between 1660 and 1810, although some ships continued their use after that date. That is presumably why early 20th cent. photos of the Victory show her without an entry port. He also states that the first use of entry ports, port and starboard, was from 1671.

 

As to their use, I think Mark is right, and that they were for the use of senior officers only. I may be wrong here, but I'm not sure lowly mids and lieutenants would have been allowed to use it, unless they had special dispensation.

Edited by Stockholm tar

Kester

 

Current builds: Sherbourne (Caldercraft) scale – 1/64th;

 

Statsraad Lehmkuhl (half model) 1/8th" – 1'.

 

Victory Bow Section (Panart/Mantua) scale – 1/78th  (on hold).

 

Previous build: Bluenose ll (Billings) scale – 1/100th.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks!

I'm more used to models that place themlike Jotika suggests...

Victory_Const31_lrg.jpg

Jan

THAT is far too near, as the gun would run over. It should be just where the opening starts.

 

Also the breeching line is far too short :-)

 

Gruß, Daniel

Edited by dafi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you Maurice :-)

 

And what does one do if one is bored? One starts pimping around ...

 

... with the gunport lids I alreadyshowed, that it is possible, to attach the needed ring onto the eyebolts, so why not doing this on a larger scale, say perhaps the breeching ropes?!?

 

So ripped the single guidance ring for the breeching rope out of the carriage, build in the new double one and already prepared the rest. So it looks like there still was place for improvment in the old carriage ;-)

 

800_Victory-breeching_0330.jpg

 

And of course attached the breeching ropes - again showing the infamous goodwin´s preventer breeching rope - and here we are, gun 2.0, aka Dr. Tentacle :-)

 

800_Victory-breeching_0280.jpg

 

And here he comes, Dr. Tentacle´s arch enemy, the incredible Dr. dafi ® - terror of all multi-armed creatures, in his insatiable wish to bind Dr. Tentacle and confine him down onto a secure place!

 

Cleverly Dr. dafi ® puts up a trap:

 

800_Victory-breeching_0256.jpg 

 

... a needle on a shish kebab skewer ...

 

800_Victory-breeching_0254.jpg

 

... makes the aiming markings on the inner hull :-)

 

Afterwards - no not the same picture again ...

 

800_Victory-breeching_0266.jpg

 

... no this time ...

 

800_Victory-breeching_0258.jpg

 

... there is a fine drill attached :-)

 

Then Dr. Tentacle was lured into the trap ...

 

800_Victory-breeching_0285.jpg

 

... and detained :-)

 

800_Victory-breeching_0296.jpg

 

...hihihihihihihihi...

 

... see him fidgeting around in despair but no more escape will be his :-)

 

800_Victory-breeching_0307.jpg

 

Once again Dr. dafi ® wins and shows the limits to one more abominable creature of maritime navyisms!

And please tune in again next week, when we will show: Who the hell is Captain Hook?!?

 

Greetings from the tentacle-tamer, Dr. dafi ®
Link to comment
Share on other sites

is he still there?

Its all part of Kev's journey, bit like going to the dark side, but with the lights on
 

All the best

Kevin :omg:


SAY NO TO PIRACY. SUPPORT ORIGINAL IDEAS AND MANUFACTURERS.
KEEP IT REAL!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the build table

HMS Indefatigable 1794 by Kevin - Vanguard Models - 1:64 - Feb 2023 

 

 

HMHS Britannic by Kevin 

SD 14  - Marcle Models - 1/70 - March 2022 -  Bluebell - Flower Class - Revel - 1/72   U552 German U Boat - Trumpeter - 1/48  Amerigo Vespucci     1/84 - Panart-   HMS Enterprise  -CAF -  1/48     

Finished     

St-Nectan-Mountfleet-models-steam-trawler-1/32 - Completed June 2020

HMS Victory - Caldercraft/Jotika - 1/72 - Finished   Dorade renamed Dora by Kevin - Amati - 1/20 - Completed March 2021 

Stage Coach 1848 - Artesania Latina - 1/10 -Finished Lady Eleanor by Kevin - FINISHED - Vanguard Models - 1/64 - Fifie fishing boat

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ohhhhhhhh.....my head.......it's......vibrating!  the pressure.........it's starting to build!   too much..........I've got....information overload!  arggggggggg!

 

would this be the norm for larger bore cannons?   I can imagine the recoil in touching one of these bad boys off.  you make thing so interesting..........and looks good in the process  ;)       I really enjoy what you do,   good Dr.  :)

I yam wot I yam!

finished builds:
Billings Nordkap 476 / Billings Cux 87 / Billings Mary Ann / Billings AmericA - reissue
Billings Regina - bashed into the Susan A / Andrea Gail 1:20 - semi scratch w/ Billing instructions
M&M Fun Ship - semi scratch build / Gundalow - scratch build / Jeanne D'Arc - Heller
Phylly C & Denny-Zen - the Lobsie twins - bashed & semi scratch dual build

Billing T78 Norden

 

in dry dock:
Billing's Gothenborg 1:100 / Billing's Boulogne Etaples 1:20
Billing's Half Moon 1:40 - some scratch required
Revell U.S.S. United States 1:96 - plastic/ wood modified / Academy Titanic 1:400
Trawler Syborn - semi scratch / Holiday Harbor dual build - semi scratch

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you Sirs :-)

 

Kevin who?

- Dr dafi® still around, alive and kicking !!!

- Dr. Tentacle is still there to all eternity - he can´t move any more ...

- Captain Hook? Who the hell is Captain Hook?

 

Popeye: As mentioned earlier, the only source I find so far for the preventer breeching is Goodwin. But as in the rigging all important systems are with a redundancy system to get fail safe, I see it quite logical to have one on the breeching ropes too in case of breaking while firing the gun or due to battle damage. Showing it in the build is of course some kind of risky, but  I would like to put this feature up to discussion by doing so. Perhaps this helps to enlighten the affair. Does anybody has any clue or where Goodwin has his sources from?

 

Jan: The special treatment just will be just for those 6 guns that will be run out, as they still will be in the photographic focus for some future documentation. The installed lashed up ones will stay the way they are :-)

But as there is always a growth in ability and know-how, there will be always new solutions and perhaps I will still find out new tricks for the guns on display on the upper deck - who knows, I am already beyond everything that I ever imagined in my wildest dreams when I started this build :-)

 

 

Cheers, Daniel

Edited by dafi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Daniel,

 

I like the kebab stick idea for reaching right through the ship to mark and drill. I am about to do some retro fitting around my cannon so I now know how to do the drilling required! :dancetl6:

Ian M.

 

Current build: HMS Unicorn  (1748) - Corel Kit

 

Advice from my Grandfather to me. The only people who don't make mistakes are those who stand back and watch. The trick is not to repeat the error. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

- Dr. Tentacle is still there to all eternity - he can´t move any more 

 

Are you sure - a week is a long time,

Its all part of Kev's journey, bit like going to the dark side, but with the lights on
 

All the best

Kevin :omg:


SAY NO TO PIRACY. SUPPORT ORIGINAL IDEAS AND MANUFACTURERS.
KEEP IT REAL!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the build table

HMS Indefatigable 1794 by Kevin - Vanguard Models - 1:64 - Feb 2023 

 

 

HMHS Britannic by Kevin 

SD 14  - Marcle Models - 1/70 - March 2022 -  Bluebell - Flower Class - Revel - 1/72   U552 German U Boat - Trumpeter - 1/48  Amerigo Vespucci     1/84 - Panart-   HMS Enterprise  -CAF -  1/48     

Finished     

St-Nectan-Mountfleet-models-steam-trawler-1/32 - Completed June 2020

HMS Victory - Caldercraft/Jotika - 1/72 - Finished   Dorade renamed Dora by Kevin - Amati - 1/20 - Completed March 2021 

Stage Coach 1848 - Artesania Latina - 1/10 -Finished Lady Eleanor by Kevin - FINISHED - Vanguard Models - 1/64 - Fifie fishing boat

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Once again Dr. dafi ® wins and shows the limits to one more abominable creature of maritime navyisms!

And please tune in again next week, when we will show: Who the hell is Captain Hook?!?
 
 

 

Its all part of Kev's journey, bit like going to the dark side, but with the lights on
 

All the best

Kevin :omg:


SAY NO TO PIRACY. SUPPORT ORIGINAL IDEAS AND MANUFACTURERS.
KEEP IT REAL!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the build table

HMS Indefatigable 1794 by Kevin - Vanguard Models - 1:64 - Feb 2023 

 

 

HMHS Britannic by Kevin 

SD 14  - Marcle Models - 1/70 - March 2022 -  Bluebell - Flower Class - Revel - 1/72   U552 German U Boat - Trumpeter - 1/48  Amerigo Vespucci     1/84 - Panart-   HMS Enterprise  -CAF -  1/48     

Finished     

St-Nectan-Mountfleet-models-steam-trawler-1/32 - Completed June 2020

HMS Victory - Caldercraft/Jotika - 1/72 - Finished   Dorade renamed Dora by Kevin - Amati - 1/20 - Completed March 2021 

Stage Coach 1848 - Artesania Latina - 1/10 -Finished Lady Eleanor by Kevin - FINISHED - Vanguard Models - 1/64 - Fifie fishing boat

Link to comment
Share on other sites

- Dr. Tentacle is still there to all eternity - he can´t move any more 

 

Are you sure - a week is a long time,

 

Do not worry, I will have a close eye on him :-)

 

Thanks Kevin, Ian and Channell

Edited by dafi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...