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soldering torch vs iron


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Hi all,

I am beginning to learn how to solder small parts.  I was curious whether a butane torch, such as a pencil torch, or an iron is preferred for this type of work.. and why.

 

Thanks,

Richard

Richard
Member: The Nautical Research Guild
                Atlanta Model Shipwrights

Current build: Syren

                       

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I prefer the micro torch for quick work on small parts. The torch also comes with soldering tips so if I need more control than the raw torch allows, I can attach the tip to it and quickly have it up to heat.

 

I have both this and the electric torch but for a quick soldering for a small part, I reach for the micro torch kit.

Bill

Chantilly, VA

 

Its not the size of the ship, but the bore of the cannon!

 

Current Build: Scratch Build Brig Eagle

 

Completed Build Log: USS Constitution - Mamoli

Completed Build Gallery: USS Constitution - Mamoli

 

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Ditto.  For hooks, eyebolts and small parts I use a micro torch with the tip.  For anything larger, in ship modelling tasks, I use the flame and not the tip of the micro torch.  I find the placement of the flux, solder pellet and the tip/flame point very important in controlling the direction of flow.

 

cheers

 

Pat

If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!
Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch)

Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350)

Built:          Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64)

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Just learning to solder. Before I discover how to use iron, I thought solution is in silver soldering with mini torch. BuT now, I do not know any more

 

post-4738-0-87531200-1415742481_thumb.jpgpost-4738-0-68416000-1415742503_thumb.jpg

Edited by Nenad M

In progress:

CUTTY SARK - Tehnodidakta => scratch => Campbell plans

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/2501-cutty-sark-by-nenad-tehnodidakta-scratched-campbells-plans/page-1#entry64653

Content of log :

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/2501-cutty-sark-by-nenad-tehnodidakta-scratched-campbells-plans/page-62#entry217381

Past build:

Stella, Heller kit, plastic, Santa Maria, Tehnodidakta kit, wood, Jolly Roger Heller kit, plastic

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The solder goes where the flux is. There are a number of different flux solutions. What I use depends on what I am trying to do. I have a flux paste that I use if I am trying to get a wider smoother coverage. When the iron hits the flux it spreads. Anywhere the flux goes, I know solder will follow. There is also a solder/flux paste that comes in a syringe. This is great for targeting very small solders. For this I generally use the torch flame since a pass of the flame is all that takes the small amount of solder and paste to melt and adhere. 

 

I also find if I use the solder tip to warm the piece and melt the flux, then I can touch the solder to the tip and it flows off the tip and everywhere the flux just went.

Bill

Chantilly, VA

 

Its not the size of the ship, but the bore of the cannon!

 

Current Build: Scratch Build Brig Eagle

 

Completed Build Log: USS Constitution - Mamoli

Completed Build Gallery: USS Constitution - Mamoli

 

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Bill, thanks for the advice.  Did know about heating item and letting solder flow where flux was placed.  I will need to work on that.

Richard

Richard
Member: The Nautical Research Guild
                Atlanta Model Shipwrights

Current build: Syren

                       

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I have used Smith's Little Torch.  All you need are regulators for the tanks.  I posted a photo of my set up someplace on MSW but I do not recall where.  It is a sweet tool and great for little and big parts.  Well worth the price.  Small disposable propane from the hardware store and a small reusable tank for the propane.  Then with practice the flame is more controlled and much hotter than propane.  Practice on scrap first. 

 

David B

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Since I generally have very small soldering jobs, the micro torch has been my go to tool for this. It has a refillable propane tank in it's handle. 

Bill

Chantilly, VA

 

Its not the size of the ship, but the bore of the cannon!

 

Current Build: Scratch Build Brig Eagle

 

Completed Build Log: USS Constitution - Mamoli

Completed Build Gallery: USS Constitution - Mamoli

 

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I prefer an iron and soft solder unless strength is required then I use a torch for silver solder.

 

Bob

Every build is a learning experience.

 

Current build:  SS_ Mariefred

 

Completed builds:  US Coast Guard Pequot   Friendship-sloop,  Schooner Lettie-G.-Howard,   Spray,   Grand-Banks-dory

                                                a gaff rigged yawl,  HOGA (YT-146),  Int'l Dragon Class II,   Two Edwardian Launches 

 

In the Gallery:   Catboat,   International-Dragon-Class,   Spray

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I looked up the price of the smith's little torch and it looks like a pricey proposition.  That is probably something I would consider once I have more experience.  

 

I have been trying a torch with a silver solder paste as well as with some some regular solder. I have never used a soldering iron so am not sure of the differences in control. 

 

Aside from the issue of soft vs. hard, what opinions are there about control of the solder in doing fine work? For instance, with the torch, if i try to use a small bit of solder, the torch will blow it away. When I use the silver solder/flux paste I have no control of the flux and where it will flow.

 

Thanks for sharing

Richard

Richard
Member: The Nautical Research Guild
                Atlanta Model Shipwrights

Current build: Syren

                       

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Richard:

I use prefluxed soldering paste and I have never had a problem with it.

 

Russ

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I think: practice, practice, practice.

 

And read tutorials ...

 

Starting my CS I know nothing about iron soldering, but now I think I got some fine control on Cu wire, even I use Chinese junk Iron payed 3€. ( see http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/4679-the-kit-bashers-guide-to-the-galaxy/page-6#entry259400 )

 

You have to FEEL material you are working with, and practice is only medicine for that.

 

Tutorials are great source to focus on esential parts : clean and sharp top of iron, flux use, temperature ... there are some great video tutorials on youtube also, and very helpfull to see HOW materials have to look and what happen with materials when you approach with heat

 

I am planing to learn silver soldering too, also to try epoxy glueing ...

 

And practice practice again

Edited by Nenad M

In progress:

CUTTY SARK - Tehnodidakta => scratch => Campbell plans

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/2501-cutty-sark-by-nenad-tehnodidakta-scratched-campbells-plans/page-1#entry64653

Content of log :

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/2501-cutty-sark-by-nenad-tehnodidakta-scratched-campbells-plans/page-62#entry217381

Past build:

Stella, Heller kit, plastic, Santa Maria, Tehnodidakta kit, wood, Jolly Roger Heller kit, plastic

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Part of the control is using the flame.  Once the joint has been cleaned and flux applied put a small piece of solder on it ans creep the flame to the joint..

This takes practice when I use the stuff I always practice first to regain the feel.  Many times I will use soft solder if I can get away with it.  But here is what you can do with silver older.

post-227-0-09846200-1416172504_thumb.jpg

post-227-0-91842000-1416172954_thumb.jpg

David B

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Richard:

Practice does help a lot, but I would encourage you to look into the prefluxed soldering paste. Jeweler's supply houses will sell it under brazing materials. I just got some new stock the other day. It makes it easier not having to worry about applying flux and then a chip of silver.

 

Russ

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Russ,

I have "Silver Bearing Wire Soldering Paste Welding Jewelry by Solder-It". Is that the same as the product you mentioned?  

 

Richard 

Richard
Member: The Nautical Research Guild
                Atlanta Model Shipwrights

Current build: Syren

                       

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Russ, I checked the specs on STL 1205-655.  It lists the melting temperature at 1145-1205 degrees F. I thought that might be a little high for my inexpensive butane torch but the specs say the torch handles "1300 degrees max" so it should work.  

 

At $33 the STL 1205-655 seems a little pricey.  The Solder-It paste I am using is only 10$, its specs include a much lower melting point:

  • This is a new tube of silver bearing solder paste
  • At warm temperatures the silver bearing solder paste will speed up soldering tasks because it works with the heat of a match or lighter
  • This works on ferrous and non ferrous metals
  • Will join 22 different combinations of metals
  • This paste melts at only 430 degreesF

This paste does not list the mix of ingredients so I cannot compare the two but given the different melting points I imagine they are different.

 

I am not sure how the difference in melting temperatures impact the ease of difficulty of soldering as we do on models or whether the  STL 1205-655 would provide increased precision.  If it would, then it would be worth the purchase to test out.

 

What do you all think?

 

Richard

Edited by rtropp

Richard
Member: The Nautical Research Guild
                Atlanta Model Shipwrights

Current build: Syren

                       

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My bad I was looking at the wrong item.  Hint if the melting point is at the upper end of your torches limit it will make it a little difficult to get a clean joint.  I found this out the hard way.  That was when I went to a jewelry supply house in Chicago to ask some questions and get some advice and the best mat'l for what I was doing.  They recommended a liquid flux and a low temp silver solder.  The parts I was working on were very delicate and fragile.  I took his advice and used a paste with a lower melting point so as to not damage the part.  And the one thing he stressed was that the part had to be heated quickly to melt the solder.  If I was to slow the part would oxidize before the flux could do it's job and melt the part before the solder flowed.  At the upper limit the solder will not flow fast enough.  Practice, practice practice.  This will give you the feel to get the job done.  Right now if I had my torch here.  I would have to practice for a while to get the feel again,  Good luck.  PS  make sure you have a fire extinguisher on hand and since you are working with oxygen and flammable gas no smoking or flames near the tanks.   Safety first.  I did not bring them with me because I respect my sister and do not wish to cause problems.  Ed would not be happy about it either.

 

David B

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The Solder it is not meant for silver soldering. It is far too low a temp. It can be used with an iron, but this is just soft soldering. Again, soft soldering is like gluing two pieces together while silver soldering is like welding; it makes two pieces into one piece.

 

Yes, the paste is a little pricey, but it will last you several years. I generally buy a tube every 4-5 years.

 

Russ

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so when the product, like Solder-it,  it says "silver bearing" that does not mean it is for silver soldering?  The "silver brazing" ones on the linked page you provided all seem to be high temperature. Do all silver soldering require high temperature, if not which lower temperature one would be recommended to try. And would it require a torch or iron?

 

I think I got confused again :-)  but I am having fun with it.

 

Richard

Richard
Member: The Nautical Research Guild
                Atlanta Model Shipwrights

Current build: Syren

                       

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Anything high temp requires a torch. Irons will not get that hot. Iron is for soft soldering, torch is for silver or hard soldering, aka brazing. Any low temp solder is for use with an iron and therefore is for soft soldering. To silver/hard solder you need a torch and to use a torch, you need a silver solder with a high melt temp.

 

Russ

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This can be very deceiving.  Silver solder can also be called hard solder. It comes in sheets and wire.  I buy the wire according to the melting temp.  I flatten the end paper this and with a clipper nip off a piece the size of a pepper flake.  Once I apply the flux I use the same tool to pick up and place the solder in position.  Then I sneak the flame to the flux and solder and the second the solder flows I pull back.  The reason silver solder is called hard solder is because the wire is very hard.  You need nippers or wire cutters to cut it.  Silver bearing solder is called a soft solder.  All you need is a pair of scissors to cut a wire.

My supplier is Sante fe Jewelers Supply www.sfjssantafe.com/   They are easy to do busines with.  They also have a list of what they have and the applications it can be used for.

David B

                                   

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You may want to check this video made by Paul Budzig. Paul is a Master Model Maker, and has a number of excellent videos posted on YouTube. He mostly builds scale model aircraft, cars and some armor, but the tutorials are applicable to many areas of model making / building. This particular tutorial is on soldering...... Joe

 

Edited by JPZ66

Joe Zappa

 

Member, Nautical Research Guild & Puget Sound Ship Modelers

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Thanks for the tutorial.  Very good even for an old solderer like me.

 

Bob

Every build is a learning experience.

 

Current build:  SS_ Mariefred

 

Completed builds:  US Coast Guard Pequot   Friendship-sloop,  Schooner Lettie-G.-Howard,   Spray,   Grand-Banks-dory

                                                a gaff rigged yawl,  HOGA (YT-146),  Int'l Dragon Class II,   Two Edwardian Launches 

 

In the Gallery:   Catboat,   International-Dragon-Class,   Spray

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