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soldering torch vs iron


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good tutorial I appreciate your posting it.  It does talk to using an iron.  Can you recommend any like that but show torch?

thanks

Richard

Edited by rtropp

Richard
Member: The Nautical Research Guild
                Atlanta Model Shipwrights

Current build: Syren

                       

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Interesting video that is why I have the smiths little torch.  From one nozzle to the next.  The disappointing thing about it was doing soft soldering and the wattage of the iron depending on the size.

David B

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If you buy a Weller soldering iron like the one shown on the opening picture of the first video, you dial in the heat (wattage) you need.  No changing of heads, no open flame, no tarnish of metal that needs to be cleaned.  On the other hand if you like playing with fire that's your choice.  For soft solder I’ll use an iron every time.

 

Bob

Every build is a learning experience.

 

Current build:  SS_ Mariefred

 

Completed builds:  US Coast Guard Pequot   Friendship-sloop,  Schooner Lettie-G.-Howard,   Spray,   Grand-Banks-dory

                                                a gaff rigged yawl,  HOGA (YT-146),  Int'l Dragon Class II,   Two Edwardian Launches 

 

In the Gallery:   Catboat,   International-Dragon-Class,   Spray

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Bob, I think I am  just going to have try both. I have already been fooling with a butane pencil torch but it does not have the temperature needed so will have to replace it, probably with the MicroMark one.  I want to try the hard soldering (silver) as describe some members and that requires a higher temperature.

 

At the same time, I am considering also trying out an iron to see if I am more comfortable with it. On Amazon their are a range of Wellers (and others) but some give power in watts others in temperature.  Hard to compare.

Given your experience, how much power do you think I will need in both and in degrees of temperature?

 

Again, small parts for modeling will by my only use.

 

Thanks,

Richard

Richard
Member: The Nautical Research Guild
                Atlanta Model Shipwrights

Current build: Syren

                       

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If you buy a Weller soldering iron like the one shown on the opening picture of the first video, you dial in the heat (wattage) you need.  No changing of heads, no open flame, no tarnish of metal that needs to be cleaned.  On the other hand if you like playing with fire that's your choice.  For soft solder I’ll use an iron every time.

 

Bob

I agree Bob. It's all about using the proper tool for the proper application ! As skills and knowledge grow, so too the availability and choices of tools grows. Doesn't mean you need them all (tool junkies excepted), but it sure can be a time saver as well as making the results you are after much easier to acheive.

 

Joe

Joe Zappa

 

Member, Nautical Research Guild & Puget Sound Ship Modelers

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Richard, Here are the irons and torches I use.  All were bought at the local hardware.  But as you can see they are old and well used except for the little pencil torch that I haven’t tried yet.  The iron is an Unger of 50 Watts and the gun is probably about 100 Watts.  The soft solder I like is about 1/32” diameter lead/tin and I use a liquid flux of unknown brand.  As for temperature, I don’t know.  In some cases temperature and torch size depends on what the part is resting on.  Yesterday I silver soldered a 3/32” bar through a hole in a 1/16” X 3/4” dia. disc.  Normally the Bezomatic would Have done the job, but I had it on a cold fire brick and the brick was soaking so much heat away from the brass that I had to use the large torch.

 

Bob

 

post-513-0-69659000-1416426461_thumb.jpg

Every build is a learning experience.

 

Current build:  SS_ Mariefred

 

Completed builds:  US Coast Guard Pequot   Friendship-sloop,  Schooner Lettie-G.-Howard,   Spray,   Grand-Banks-dory

                                                a gaff rigged yawl,  HOGA (YT-146),  Int'l Dragon Class II,   Two Edwardian Launches 

 

In the Gallery:   Catboat,   International-Dragon-Class,   Spray

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I apologise upfront if this is slightly deviating from topic as it was titled torch vs iron - sorry if I am hijacking your thread Richard.  If thought necessary, I  will move this discussion to a new thread but I thought it sort of fits here?

 

Recently I have been investigating resistance soldering and would appreciate any feedback/experience of users.  There are some uTube and other threads out there on the web that show that resistance soldering provides sufficient heat for hard (silver) soldering (for smaller jobs).   One major advantage being that you can solder several small bits close to each other without damaging the other joint even without using different melting point temps.

 

As I will only be using this for small work such as eyebolts, chainplates and some photoetch joints, I think the power (thermal output) is sufficient with a 250Watt set.

 

My main concern though is when doing longer seams in photoetch etc in that as the heat is very localised , whether you can draw the solder far enough through wicking along the joint even by dragging the probe (electrode) along the joint.  Anyone have any experience with this?  While this aspect might be problematic for this type of soldering activity, it is very beneficial (near perfect) for spot soldering of eyes and closely located parts on a small job such as a spider band etc.

 

Of particular benefit is that by testing and selecting the appropriate temp it is even possible to solder white (Britannia) metal - try that with a torch :)

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited by BANYAN

If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!
Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch)

Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350)

Built:          Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64)

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Hi Bob:

 

Up to now I've been using the torches you have there, except the pen-torch, and a Weller like the bigger one you have, for larger work. Been thinking of getting the smaller iron though for doing the iron-work on my Connie. I do have a question about the brick and acting as a heat-sink. Wouldn't a piece of ceramic tile be a better platform to weld on? Since ceramic tile is what's used on the space shuttle to deflect heat. 

 

Cheers  :cheers:

GEORGE

 

MgrHa7Z.gif

 

Don't be bound by the limits of what you already know, be unlimited by what you are willing to learn.

 

Member of the Nautical Research Guild

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I generally use StaySilv solder with a liguid flux.  I have a regular iron and one that can be increased up to 20 watts.  I also have a Smith's Little torch when I hard solder.

David B

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Pat,

As we are discussing various soldering techniques, resistance soldering is welcome. I do not know much about it and would not mind hearing more as part of this discussion.

 

I am trying to understand the strengths and weaknesses of each technique as they apply to our ship builds.

 

To others who have a range of soldering tools. do you use them all in ship modeling or only a selection of them? Some seem to be overkill to this neophyte.  For instance, tools such as the Smiths seem to be fairly involved for the simple soldering of tiny parts for the ship builds.

 

 

Richard

Edited by rtropp

Richard
Member: The Nautical Research Guild
                Atlanta Model Shipwrights

Current build: Syren

                       

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One of our club members picked up a unit and sid it was the cats meow.  He bought it to a club meeting and gave a hands on demonstration.  I found it to work great.  No heat sinks just make sure the part is clean and properly fluxed. apply the solder touch the probes and hit the switch.  The solder elted and flowed with the flux.  First part was very small. and the next part was huge.  But the unit had a dial to control the wattage.   My only reason for not getting a unt is cost versus how much I would actually need it.

David B

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In a mechanics tool box are many wrenches.  Ratchet, open end, box end, etc.  Each has it uses. Resistance soldering is great for some things.  The advantage of the resistance solder machine is that it is fast.  At the spot you touch the metal and solder will get hot enough to fuse in about a second, but if you leave the tip or tweezers there too long the heat will radiate out and get the whole part hot just like any other heat source.  I saw a jeweler resize a ring without removing the stone because he could solder the spot before the heat got to the stone.  On the other hand, if you want to chase the solder down a joint it is no better than any other heat source.

 

As for the heat shield, I usually use an old asbestos tile I’ve had since the 50’s.  But I also have fire bricks.  The reason I used the bricks this time is the part looked like a toy top and I placed the shank between the bricks to keep it square.  I do not use tiles because if I get one small spot of it hot without getting the whole tile hot it stands a chance of breaking due to thermal expansion.  The space shuttle tiles are a different type of ceramic which would be absolutely the best, if you could find one.

 

Bob

Every build is a learning experience.

 

Current build:  SS_ Mariefred

 

Completed builds:  US Coast Guard Pequot   Friendship-sloop,  Schooner Lettie-G.-Howard,   Spray,   Grand-Banks-dory

                                                a gaff rigged yawl,  HOGA (YT-146),  Int'l Dragon Class II,   Two Edwardian Launches 

 

In the Gallery:   Catboat,   International-Dragon-Class,   Spray

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  • 2 weeks later...

Folks,

 

In his scratch build of HMS Kingfisher, Remco identified a ceramic heat board with pins that he uses as a jig for soldering - see this post for one of its uses http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/18-hms-kingfisher-by-remco-1770-english-14-gun-sloop-pof-148/page-56

 

The ceramic board and pins are available at: https://www.fohrmann.com/en/modellbau-loetwerkzeug/soldering-plate.html  (no commercial ties etc...)

 

I think it is a great idea, however, for Aussies at least, while the price was OK at Euro 25 (about A$37) the asking price for sending it here was Euro60 (can you believe that for such a small and light product)- I queried this but quick as a flash  NO response :)

 

Looking around, I found a very similar product (much cheaper at $A18) at http://jewellerssupplies.com.au/honeycomb-ceramic-solder-board-122mm-80mm-p-2060.html  you will need to source the pins elsewhere but I think brass wire of the appropriate diameter (1.5mm in this case) would work?

 

Hope this is of some value to members looking at the various soldering issues and solutions.

 

cheers

 

Pat

If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!
Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch)

Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350)

Built:          Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64)

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Pat,

 

I'd be very interested to hear more of your investigation (and trials, I hope) with resistance soldering. Thanks also for the tip on the cheaper ceramic board - I too was stunned at the postage cost on the fohrmann one!

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Just found this alternative for the honeycombed ceramic board: http://www.gemcuts.com.au/honeycomb-ceramic-soldering-board-197mm-x-140mm-sbhcl

 

It's AUD $38 but the size is a bit bigger. Add another $9 for postage. I just pulled the trigger! :)

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I am not sure if this helps in Australia, but Amazon has a similar item from Eurotool that is $15 to $20 US dollars depending on the size.

 

Richard

Richard
Member: The Nautical Research Guild
                Atlanta Model Shipwrights

Current build: Syren

                       

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