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Making rope coils


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MSW 1 had a couple topics about making rope coils. I would like to review some of that and perhaps others can add to this.

There are at least two types of rope coils. The first is the spirally wrapped one that might lie on deck. The second is the coil that is part of belaying a line on a cleat or belaying pin. I'll cover them one at a time.

 

There is a fellow (help??) who made a fixture to make the flat coils. I took a similar approach with some materials on hand. I took a piece of plastic that is not kind to PVA glue, made a wooden block with a hole in it and a nail. I coated the line with a thinned bit of glue. Then using the nail I pushed the line through the hole of the plastic and into the hole of the wood. Now I have a sandwich with the line being the lunch meat. 

post-246-0-13105000-1363968508.jpg  post-246-0-26940800-1363968518.jpg

 

Instead of wrapping the line around, I turned the block while holding the sandwich loosely together so the meat does not fall out.

post-246-0-19701900-1363968529.jpg  post-246-0-95183700-1363968548.jpg

 

When I think I have about enough, I let the whole thing sit a while (but not too long!) You can see that some are not perfect, but good enough.

        post-246-0-73517200-1363968573.jpg

 

I'll cover the second type of coil in the next thread.

Jay

 

Current build Cross Section USS Constitution  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/10120-cross-section-forward-area-of-the-uss-constitution/

Finished USS Constitution:  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/103-uss-constitution-by-modeler12/

 

'A picture is worth a  . . . . .'      More is better . . . .

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Belaying a line around a pin is the first step.

post-246-0-69830600-1363969126.jpg   post-246-0-46521800-1363969137.jpg

 

I cheat a bit and do this first when belaying around a pin or cleat. I make the first couple turns and put a dab of CA on the line to hold it in place. Then I cut the line!!!

Next I take the same line I just cut (or another section of the same material) and make the coil. The fixture is simply two nails, a pin and some thinned PVA glue. Wrap as shown, let dry a bit and remove.

post-246-0-93046100-1363969156.jpg   post-246-0-24201400-1363969179.jpg

 

Again they are not perfect but that is life. The last picture shows the two truss tackles with a double and single block that are 2.5 mm. Pretty small. A cleat was mounted on the mast just above the top.

Jay

 

Current build Cross Section USS Constitution  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/10120-cross-section-forward-area-of-the-uss-constitution/

Finished USS Constitution:  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/103-uss-constitution-by-modeler12/

 

'A picture is worth a  . . . . .'      More is better . . . .

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Thanks for sharing, Jay.  The belaying pin coils look like the way I was taught to do it, a couple of turns around the pin flipping the last one to lock it, coil the rope in front of the pin, then pull the working end through the coil with a twist and loop it over the pin, forming a hanger.

 

Isn't it amazing how many jigs start with "put a nail (or two nails) in a block...

 

Bob

Current build -- MS Bluenose

Future build - MS Flying Fish

 

"A ship is safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for." - William G. T. Shedd

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Jay,

 

Would the fellow you refer to be Hubert Sicard? He produced a nice video demonstrating his rope coiling device made from old CD covers. This can be seen at http://www.shipmodeling.ca/aa000099av.html.  

 

Ian M.

Ian M.

 

Current build: HMS Unicorn  (1748) - Corel Kit

 

Advice from my Grandfather to me. The only people who don't make mistakes are those who stand back and watch. The trick is not to repeat the error. 

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Where is Hubert these Days? He does such wonderful stuff, and he was so much help to me.

Current Builds - 18th Century Longboat, MS Syren

Completed Builds - MS Bluenose, Panart BatteStation Cross section, Endevour J Boat Half Hull, Windego Half Hull, R/C T37 Breezing Along, R/C Victoria 32, SolCat 18

On the shelf - Panart San Felipe, Euromodel Ajax, C.Mamoli America, 

 

Its a sailor's Life for me! :10_1_10:

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Jay,

 

Would the fellow you refer to be Hubert Sicard? He produced a nice video demonstrating his rope coiling device made from old CD covers. This can be seen at http://www.shipmodeling.ca/aa000099av.html.  

 

Ian M.

Yup that' s the one. It is a nice demonstration. Somehow I stumbled onto the same idea but did not do as nice a job of making my gadget.

Thanks for mentioning Hubert web posting.

Jay

 

Current build Cross Section USS Constitution  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/10120-cross-section-forward-area-of-the-uss-constitution/

Finished USS Constitution:  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/103-uss-constitution-by-modeler12/

 

'A picture is worth a  . . . . .'      More is better . . . .

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Floyd,

 

Hubert's "Wooden Ship Modeling for Dummies" web site is still at http://www.shipmodeling.ca/aaplandusite.html#p. As you say his guides are very useful - there is all sorts on there - including coilling ropes ( to avoid my going off subject :) ).

 

Ian M.  

Ian M.

 

Current build: HMS Unicorn  (1748) - Corel Kit

 

Advice from my Grandfather to me. The only people who don't make mistakes are those who stand back and watch. The trick is not to repeat the error. 

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Thanks a lot Jay - the funny thing is I was looking for this thread last week when I was finishing off a build and wanting some suggestions for rope coils! It'll definitely come in handy on the next one.

hamilton

current builds: Corel HMS Bellona (1780)
 
previous builds: MS Phantom (scuttled, 2017); MS Sultana (1767); Corel Brittany Sloop (scuttled, 2022); MS Kate Cory; MS Armed Virginia Sloop (in need of a refit); Corel Flattie; Mamoli Gretel; Amati Bluenose (1921) (scuttled, 2023); AL San Francisco (destroyed by land krakens [i.e., cats]); Corel Toulonnaise (1823); 
MS Glad Tidings (1937) (in need of a refit)HMS Blandford (1719) from Corel HMS GreyhoundFair Rosamund (1832) from OcCre Dos Amigos (missing in action); Amati Hannah (ship in a bottle); Mamoli America (1851)Bluenose fishing schooner (1921) (scratch)
 
under the bench: Admiralty Echo cross-section; MS Emma C Barry; MS USS Constitution; MS Flying Fish; Corel Berlin; a wood supplier Colonial Schooner Hannah; Victory Models H.M.S. Fly; CAF Models HMS Granado; MS USS Confederacy

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I use this jig to make my pin coils. Just some nails in an angled piece of wood. When the coils are made, I spray them with hair spray and let dry. The plastic push pins allow for easy removal. Has worked very good for me.

post-975-0-19093400-1364216460.jpg

Edited by Ulises Victoria

There aren't but two options: do it FAST, or do it RIGHT.

 

Current Project Build Log: Soleil Royal in 1/72. Kit by Artesania Latina.

Last finished projectsRoyal Ship Vasa 1628; French Vessel Royal Louis 1780. 1/90 Scale by Mamoli. 120 Cannons

 

Future projects already in my stash: Panart: San Felipe 1/75; OcCre: Santísima Trinidad 1/90;

Wish List: 1/64 Amati Victory, HMS Enterprise in 1/48 by CAF models.

 

So much to build, so little time!

 

 

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There are a couple more ways to do the coil around a belaying pin. One is to use the line that you have hitched around the pin. You make another flat coil with some more line and hang the coil around the hitched line. The picture below should tell you the story.

post-246-0-84985700-1364249984.jpg

 

What I like to do is to make the coils ahead of time and store them until I need them. I use several different sizes. Below is one variation of what I showed earlier. It ends up looking a bit more like the photographs. I make a series of small loops on a board with brats and hook those through the coil. 

post-246-0-17835200-1364250004.jpg  post-246-0-59608000-1364250022.jpg

 

post-246-0-60511700-1364250032.jpg  This shows a couple just looped around a pin.

 

Keep in mind that the sailors had to be able to grab the line and know exactly how it is looped around the pin. They would have to do this blindly in the dark and heavy seas. Hence all lines were belayed the same way.

Edited by Modeler12

Jay

 

Current build Cross Section USS Constitution  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/10120-cross-section-forward-area-of-the-uss-constitution/

Finished USS Constitution:  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/103-uss-constitution-by-modeler12/

 

'A picture is worth a  . . . . .'      More is better . . . .

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There are a couple more ways to do the coil around a belaying pin. One is to use the line that you have hitched around the pin. You make another flat coil with some more line and hang the coil around the hitched line. The picture below should tell you the story.

attachicon.gifrigging 39.jpg

Thanks for the photo - this is what I was trying to describe in words!

Current build -- MS Bluenose

Future build - MS Flying Fish

 

"A ship is safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for." - William G. T. Shedd

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  • 1 year later...

I have a put together a similar method of rope coiling. I think these could be a more permanent solution.  I have made a number of these `rope coilers' so I can coil multiple ropes and save time.

post-1505-0-13817500-1403392849_thumb.jpg

These are  `counters' used in primary school to help with maths. (I'm a teacher)

They are available on ebay for about $5.00 per 100 (AUS)

The beauty of them is that they are transparent so you can see what you are doing!

(just search for transparent coloured counters - on ebay)

post-1505-0-42165500-1403393102_thumb.jpg

Take two counters and drill a small hole in the centre of each (just large enough to push a push pin through)

post-1505-0-50911700-1403393209_thumb.jpg

superglue a push pin to one of the counters.

post-1505-0-65997500-1403393259_thumb.jpg

After soaking your rope in a solution of white glue and water, thread the end of it through the counter that does not have the push pin attached. Then push the other counter (with the push pin) through the hole in the bottom counter.( This traps the rope so it won't come loose when you turn it.

post-1505-0-65072100-1403393449_thumb.jpgpost-1505-0-39922400-1403393467_thumb.jpg

Now you need to make something on which to mount your rope coiler.

I nailed a nail (with the pointy end removed) through a base board. I then drilled a hole through  the centre of  a piece of dowel which was then placed over the nail . The dowel was loose enough to rotate on the nail.

post-1505-0-13690600-1403393618_thumb.jpg

Now place the rope coiler on top of your rotating dowel rod. I have drilled a small hole in the top of the dowel and forced the push pin down so it is firm but the gap between the two counters is enough for the rope to go through (this is adjustable depending on the diameter of the rope being coiled) . Rotate the dowel with one hand while feeding the line between the two

counters in a even fashion with the other hand (you can see through the transparent counter to check that all is well!) When complete, remove the rope coiler from the top of the dowel and allow to dry overnight. You can then make more - if you have made multiple rope coilers.

post-1505-0-75960200-1403393969_thumb.jpgpost-1505-0-16045300-1403394000_thumb.jpg

After the coil is dry, carefully remove it from the coiler by cutting and levering from the coiler - which can then be reused.

post-1505-0-03812500-1403394111_thumb.jpg

Because the counters are thicker and sturdier than a piece of plastic taken from packaging, you will get no flexing and a more uniform result .You now have a good looking rope coil.

Hornet

 

Current Build: - OcCre Shackleton’s Endurance. 

 

Completed Ship Builds:

                                     Caldercraft - HM Bark Endeavour. (in Gallery)

                                    Caldercraft  - HMAV Bounty (in Gallery)

                                     Caldercraft - HM Brig Supply (In Gallery)

                                     Aeropiccola - Golden Hind

                                                        - Constitution

                                     Clipper Seawitch (maker unknown - too long ago to remember!)

                                     Corel - Victory

                                     Modeller's Shipyard - A Schooner of Port Jackson - In Gallery

                                                                      - Brig `Perseverance' - In Gallery

                                                                      - Cutter `Mermaid'- In Gallery

                                                                      - Sirius Longboat (bashed) - In Gallery

                                                                      - Sloop Norfolk - In Gallery

                                      Completed Cannon:   - French 18th Century Naval Cannon

                                                                      - Napoleonic 12 pound field piece

                                                                      - English 18th Century Carronade

                                       Non Ship Builds - Sopwith Camel - Artesania Latina

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Thanks for posting this and to all for the very valuable additional comments.  Very timely as I've been struggling to get some decent coils myself!

Tom

 

 

Current: Sergal Sovereign of the Seas

Previous builds:  AL Swift, AL King of the Mississippi, Mamoli Roter Lowe, Amati Chinese Junk, Caesar, Mamoli USS Constitution, Mantua HMS Victory, Panart San Felipe, Mantua Sergal Soleil Royal

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  • 4 weeks later...

What if I wanna make a rope coil that looks like this? I read that you can dip the coil in 50/50 wood glue/water and then let the coil hold its shape. Has anyone tried this?

 

I guess I would form the coil, tie it on, and then rig the rope with a portion I didn't soak in glue?

post-1335-0-33000700-1405759095_thumb.jpg

Edited by mkmossop
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Hi.

Yes some glues are better than others :) some glues dry with a shine :(

I have used this method lots of times.

 

Regards Antony?

Best advice ever given to me."If you don't know ..Just ask.

Completed Mayflower

Completed Fun build Tail boat Tailboat

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Completed Santa Lucia Sicilian Cargo Boat 1/30 scale Santa Lucia

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Jay,

 

The third nail (pin) is so simple and effective.  Thanks for sharing.

 

Allan

PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series.   Click on http://trafalgar.tv   There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time.  THANK YOU

 

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sorry to "throw cold water" on such an interesting topic, but nice as those flat coils lying on the deck of a  model  look, did they really have them on full size ships? I mean what would happen when a heavy sea washed over the decks?  Geoff

Edited by geoff
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Geoff,

 

You make a good point. 'Decorative' as rope coils might look on the decks of a model, this wasn't normal ship practice. There was a good reason for this – it encouraged rot.

 

Everything was done on board ship to minimise wear and tear (which after all means money spent) and this included the running rigging. Wherever possible rope coils were hung from the belaying pin they were associated with, or perhaps from a cleat if a large rope, so that no part of it touched the deck. Apart from gravity, this also allowed air to circulate around it and so dry it. Ropes left lying on deck would probably never dry out, being repeatedly wetted by either salt or fresh water. If you consider a deck (with rope coils laid on it) which has just been rained on, or a sea has come over the side, the deck itself might gradually dry out, but you can bet that that part of it under the coils will still remain wet or damp – an ideal situation for rot to set in.

 

Apart from that a heavy sea coming aboard would also leave the coils in a hopeless tangle, so coils on deck are also a safety hazard. From experience, the only time you would normally see a large amount of rope on deck, is when the ship is either setting or furling sail, or engaged in some manouver such as tacking or wearing. At these times, you have to be very careful where you put your feet, and you should never stand on a rope in this situation if you can avoid it – in case it moved without warning. The last order normally given after such an operation was to 'tidy up the spaghetti' – ie, coil up, and hang the running rigging from its pin. I should mention that this practice is followed today, even though the rope concerned might perhaps be modern Polypropolene, which will probably also deteriorate eventually.

Edited by Stockholm tar

Kester

 

Current builds: Sherbourne (Caldercraft) scale – 1/64th;

 

Statsraad Lehmkuhl (half model) 1/8th" – 1'.

 

Victory Bow Section (Panart/Mantua) scale – 1/78th  (on hold).

 

Previous build: Bluenose ll (Billings) scale – 1/100th.

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Mkmossop,

 

I did the Flemish coils for my gun rigging on my Badger using the technique of coiling the line around a pin on top of painters tape, but thought they looked a little too neat.  For the remaining coils, I decided to have coils that looked more like yours.  What I did was again use painters tape, this time wrapping the line around a pin, putting diluted PVA on the line, and in one motion, pull the pin and put another piece of painters tape on top -- essentially, as you pull the pin the line loosens and gets messy, but by putting the second piece of painters tape on top, you help freeze the coil in position.  I then wait a while for the glue to dry, remove the tape and you have your coil.  Now, the coils come out randomly that way, and some you'll end up throwing out, but to me I preferred the result to the Flemish coils.

Mike

 

Current Wooden builds:  Amati/Victory Pegasus  MS Charles W. Morgan  Euromodel La Renommèe  

 

Plastic builds:    SB2U-1 Vindicator 1/48  Five Star Yaeyama 1/700  Pit Road Asashio and Akashi 1/700 diorama  Walrus 1/48 and Albatross 1/700  Special Hobby Buffalo 1/32  Eduard Sikorsky JRS-1 1/72  IJN Notoro 1/700  Akitsu Maru 1/700

 

Completed builds :  Caldercraft Brig Badger   Amati Hannah - Ship in Bottle  Pit Road Hatsuzakura 1/700   Hasegawa Shimakaze 1:350

F4B-4 and P-6E 1/72  Accurate Miniatures F3F-1/F3F-2 1/48  Tamiya F4F-4 Wildcat built as FM-1 1/48  Special Hobby Buffalo 1/48

Citroen 2CV 1/24 - Airfix and Tamiya  Entex Morgan 3-wheeler 1/16

 

Terminated build:  HMS Lyme (based on Corel Unicorn)  

 

On the shelf:  Euromodel Friedrich Wilhelm zu Pferde; Caldercraft Victory; too many plastic ship, plane and car kits

 

Future potential scratch builds:  HMS Lyme (from NMM plans); Le Gros Ventre (from Ancre monographs), Dutch ship from Ab Hoving book, HMS Sussex from McCardle book, Philadelphia gunboat (Smithsonian plans)

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Shihawk,

 

I think the positions of the tackles would depend on what position the gun was in – whether run in, run out, or housed for bad weather.

 

Many modellers like to show the side tackles in a tight coil, sometimes known as a cheese, beside the gun, but I think this was usually only done for inspection purposes, and at other times they would have been coiled as per normal. During action of course, they probably wouldn't have been coiled at all. I don't really know, but I would imagine the coils would only have been on the deck during action, and the above mentioned inspections, and at other times would have been hung from the gun. This would have kept them out of the way probably for two reasons: 1) the gun decks would have been washed too; 2) the deck was also used as living space, and tables were also hung between the guns for the men to eat at. You can see that in this situation they would have been a hazard.

 

When the guns were secured for heavy weather, the gun was hauled up to the ship's side and the muzzle triced up to two ringbolts above the port. The side tackles were obviously hauled taught, and I believe the length of line was then hitched around the tackle itself just below the blocks, in a series of hitches, to use up the rope. Alternatively I have seen a drawing where the ends of the tackles are passed over the gun barrel to the opposite side, and tightly hitched to the opposite tackle. All ot this of course was to prevent the gun from moving, and I think wedges were also placed under the trucks.

 

I have not heard or read of belaying pins being used below decks for the coils or attached to the ship's side, only cleats in the deckhead for the gun port lid tackles.

 

I hope this helps – although I am not an expert on this!

Kester

 

Current builds: Sherbourne (Caldercraft) scale – 1/64th;

 

Statsraad Lehmkuhl (half model) 1/8th" – 1'.

 

Victory Bow Section (Panart/Mantua) scale – 1/78th  (on hold).

 

Previous build: Bluenose ll (Billings) scale – 1/100th.

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If there is someone I consider an expert in these matters, is Kester. :)

There aren't but two options: do it FAST, or do it RIGHT.

 

Current Project Build Log: Soleil Royal in 1/72. Kit by Artesania Latina.

Last finished projectsRoyal Ship Vasa 1628; French Vessel Royal Louis 1780. 1/90 Scale by Mamoli. 120 Cannons

 

Future projects already in my stash: Panart: San Felipe 1/75; OcCre: Santísima Trinidad 1/90;

Wish List: 1/64 Amati Victory, HMS Enterprise in 1/48 by CAF models.

 

So much to build, so little time!

 

 

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Going to have to make one up to see how much kinking and  knotting happens when ran out from the outside of the coil without unrolling that coil in the reverse of how it was made. Believe the line would need to to be returned to the state it was in before the Flemish Coil was made, then flaked down in order for it to run cleanly through a block. I will find out.

jud

Edited by jud
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Well I made a Flemish Coil, had about 6 feet of cotton rope with my leather tools, about a 1/4 inch diameter rope we call cloths line rope, Kind of wimmpy and you can twist it with more turns than you could twist  hemp rope before it starts to kink. The cotton rope quickly formed spirals instead of hanging flat. A firmer rope would have looped back on itself and kinked before the coil was halfway unwound.. Small scale test, but the rope did just what I expected it to do. Kind of like winding a line on a spool then holding the spool and taking the line off the end, instead of unwinding, same effect.

jud

Edited by jud
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Shihawk,

 

If the guns were run out, they were there to be fired.  If they were there to be fired, I bet no one was too concerned about making nice cheese rolls on the deck or worried about rot or much else.  They just wanted to be sure they could cleanly move the lines so they could haul the gun into place with the barrel outside the hull before firing.   Perhaps a neat but not perfect coil was used if only to minimize tripping hazards or kinked lines that would impair use of the lines when hauling or during recoil.

 

If the ship was not engaged in battle or practice firing, the guns were secured inboard with the barrel up and tight against the inside of the hull, and the side running tackle ends frapped, not hitched or coiled on the deck.  The tackle used to haul the piece inboard was removed when the piece was secured like this.   Is that the only way it was done?  I have no clue, but these are the methods I have seen decribed most often

 

Allan

PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series.   Click on http://trafalgar.tv   There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time.  THANK YOU

 

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