rfolsom Posted August 21, 2014 Share #1 Posted August 21, 2014 Well, the Vic was planned for about 10-15 years down the road; (Cutty Sark and Niagara are my current builds) but our friend Dale; (laxet, check out his Niagara build log) was kind enough to ship his partially built Victory to whomever wanted to complete it. I jumped in.... After receiving the ship, I immediately compared the plans to the Anatomy of the Ship; HMS Victory. After about 4 to 6 hours, I came to the conclusion that the bulkheads are accurate (in outline) but the keel is off on bulkhead (frame) location and the mast locatiions are completely inaccurate. Please note that these are an inaccuracies in the kit; Not the experienced model builder I got this from... daHeld 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfolsom Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share #2 Posted August 21, 2014 Jotika/Caldercraft posts their manuals and ship parts manifest online; their keel is spot on to the AOTS plans. Their bulkheads are not. This 70's Sergal's bulkheads are. So I'll have to figure this all out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfolsom Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share #3 Posted August 21, 2014 In the meantime, the one thing I have to do is remake the stem. I found a cheap piece of poplar at home depot; very satisfied with it! I'll "experiment" by cutting each deadwood separately ... NenadM, daHeld, Omega1234 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfolsom Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share #4 Posted August 21, 2014 I was going to completely dismantle the hull; but I am planning on rebuilding, using the AOTS. Omega1234 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfolsom Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share #5 Posted August 23, 2014 My scroll saw talents are horrible (only used the the thing a few times yet), but I managed to cut out all pieces for the stem, and get most glued together, with a little sanding, filling, shimming.... The stem deadwoods will be doweled together for extra strenght, using 1/16" bamboo doweling (asian toothpicks). hexnut and clearway 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfolsom Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share #6 Posted August 24, 2014 Stem is finished. hexnut, gieb8688, clearway and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfolsom Posted August 25, 2014 Author Share #7 Posted August 25, 2014 The little "puzzle pieces" on the inside of the stem are to match with the Caldercraft keel's "puzzle pieces" . I am using the parts layout from Caldercraft, posted on their website, combined with the AOTS plans, to develop my own scratch-built bulkheads, keel, and framing. As these are highly modified from Caldercraft's freely posted plans, I wouldn't think there would be an issue of copyright infringement. Anybody smarter than me in legal issues, please let me know if I'm doing a no-no! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NenadM Posted August 25, 2014 Share #8 Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) Hello, my friend, I wish you a luck with your new, not to forget - simultaneous third build. And no one of them seems to be easy. It seems that with three builds, you run in a really deep wather, and only your nose is above surface , . . . . I can not give you legal advice in that matter, because I myself pick from internet many plans from kits and photos which are probably copyrighted ... It seems that you are dangerously close to the real dark side - scratch building with "plank on frame" techniques where every frame is made of several pieces as your stem ... it is only a question of time when your appetite will increase enough ... just imagine - planks sure lay softer and easier on close precise frames on POF build ... maybe to start VIC from zero with POF ...???? Challenge, my friend. And I am widely known as someone who`s caued you troubles with my ideas ... devil, devil ... Anyway, whatever you decide, follow my devil plan for you or not, I pulled up a chair in first row, take beer and popcorns, some Pizza and BBQ, and watching with great interest. VIC seems to be one of the most complicated buildings, particulary as you follow path and method you use with CS ( bash kit, and follow only precise plans from literature and books) Please, do not neglect Cutty Edited August 25, 2014 by Nenad M clearway, rfolsom and mtaylor 3 Quote In progress: CUTTY SARK - Tehnodidakta => scratch => Campbell plans http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/2501-cutty-sark-by-nenad-tehnodidakta-scratched-campbells-plans/page-1#entry64653 Content of log : http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/2501-cutty-sark-by-nenad-tehnodidakta-scratched-campbells-plans/page-62#entry217381 Past build: Stella, Heller kit, plastic, Santa Maria, Tehnodidakta kit, wood, Jolly Roger Heller kit, plastic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearway Posted August 25, 2014 Share #9 Posted August 25, 2014 Good luck Bob- its bad enough building a Victory straight from a kit with only minor alterations! Keith rfolsom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfolsom Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share #10 Posted August 26, 2014 Thanks, Keith; I've had the Victory stewing about in the planning stages for several months now, always planning on doing a complete scratch build for this one, as most high end kits are beyond my price range; I am enjoying following your excellent Vic build, btw... Nenad; as I will be completely planking, painting, and coppering this ship, I will not be doing a complete POF. (nor will I allow you to persuade me... ). I have plywood purchased for cutting out the false keel and bulkheads, and will use The Anatomy of the Ship as my plans for cutting bulkheads, and refining Caldercraft outlines to better match the parts. I will also be using dummy cannon barrels for the lower gun decks as well. After these three builds are completed, (plus the USS Constitution which is on my list) I might tackle a true plank on frame scratch build, at a large scale; 1:24 perhaps.... I'll be 65 in twenty years; which is about how long it will probably take me to finish all current and planned builds.... But I won't neglect the Cutty! pythagoras, clearway and mtaylor 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_W Posted August 26, 2014 Share #11 Posted August 26, 2014 Looking forward to follow your build, Bob. I am using the parts layout from Caldercraft, posted on their website, combined with the AOTS plans, to develop my own scratch-built bulkheads, keel, and framing. As these are highly modified from Caldercraft's freely posted plans, I wouldn't think there would be an issue of copyright infringement. Anything in the public domain can be used in any way that you like, provided credit is given and you do not make a profit from the information. Quote Regards, Keith 2007 (completed): HMS Bounty - Artesania Latina 2013 (completed): Viking Ship Drakkar - Amati 2014 (completed): HMS Bounty Launch - Model Shipways Current: HMS Royal William - Euromodel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfolsom Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share #12 Posted August 26, 2014 (edited) I cut the two pieces that make up the keel proper from poplar; (same stock the stem pieces were cut from) They will be united with a scarph joint: since the keel will be copper plated, I randomly chose the placement of the joint due to my scroll saw's 16" bed. I also cut the mating outline of the stem from 1/4" plywood that will make up the fore false keel piece. I initially cut this out using Caldercraft as a template, but it was so far out of line, the piece was sent to the scrap wood bin. I've found that these parts need to be made simultaneously, and progressively, to ensure accuracy of fit. When these perimeter parts all line up accurately with the plywood false keel parts, I will use McKay's plans to line everything up and cut out the mast and bulkhead slots. Background is a piece of the plywood that the false keel and bulkheads will be cut from (poor choice of background on my part..) Edited August 26, 2014 by rfolsom mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfolsom Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share #13 Posted August 26, 2014 (edited) I am also preparing to cut out my first bulkhead. (bulkhead 1 from Caldercraft's parts list, or section "&" from McKay. I will use McKay's dimensions, of course, scaled up from 1:192 to 1:78, but will use the Ccraft general arrangement. Notice the fold on the left hand (McKay) plan; It was used to check symmetrical accuracy... and was spot on. The unenlarged plan to the right (upper left, labeled 1) is Caldercraft's representation of this bulkhead. I'll use it as a general reference as to where to put beams, decks, etc. Final accuracy of placement will be determined by McKay, of course. This will be done for each bulkhead, simultaneously with the keel. Edited August 26, 2014 by rfolsom mtaylor and clearway 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfolsom Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share #14 Posted August 26, 2014 Bulkhead "&" is on it's plywood, and bulkhead "x" has been cleared for symmetry. This may seem like a goofy process, but this is how this build of mine will progress for the moment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfolsom Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share #15 Posted August 26, 2014 First two bulkheads on "blanks" normally I would conserve as much wood as possible; but I am more concerned with cutting these out (nonexistent scroll-saw talent.) mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfolsom Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share #16 Posted August 26, 2014 And yes, I do work on my carpet; In college when studying I would sit on my floor surrounded by a 2 meter circumference of books and notes; 25 years later I do the same thing when the workbench is full... Not sure if the Admiral likes this, but that's what I do... ~Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NenadM Posted August 26, 2014 Share #17 Posted August 26, 2014 Almost forgot ... you need much more time to list and read all VIC topics on MSW Quote In progress: CUTTY SARK - Tehnodidakta => scratch => Campbell plans http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/2501-cutty-sark-by-nenad-tehnodidakta-scratched-campbells-plans/page-1#entry64653 Content of log : http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/2501-cutty-sark-by-nenad-tehnodidakta-scratched-campbells-plans/page-62#entry217381 Past build: Stella, Heller kit, plastic, Santa Maria, Tehnodidakta kit, wood, Jolly Roger Heller kit, plastic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfolsom Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share #18 Posted August 26, 2014 Many more Victory logs than the Cutty Sark... but I'll get them read! This is a photo of the templates I am using to fabricate the false keel. Caldercraft scaled down to 1:78, and AOTS scaled up to 1:78. mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfolsom Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share #19 Posted August 26, 2014 (edited) The fore plywood false keel is being marked for mast, bowsprit, deck, and bulkhead locations following AOTS, with the finished poplar keel piece and stem in place for reference. Edited August 26, 2014 by rfolsom druxey, clearway and mtaylor 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfolsom Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share #20 Posted August 27, 2014 (edited) This process is very time consuming and tedious; The Caldercraft plans line up very good in most cases, but not the bulkhead outlines. (AOS). I won't be making bow filler blocks per se; but will "borrow" the Caldercraft method... Again, the Caldercraft bulkhead is too narrow, so these bow filler pieces will have to be re-designed. This photo is a hodge-podge of parts and plans- Caldercraft guys will recognize the part outlines, and see that parts 40 will need to be extended to match AOS. Edited August 27, 2014 by rfolsom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfolsom Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share #21 Posted August 27, 2014 Forgot the photo... mtaylor, druxey and clearway 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfolsom Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share #22 Posted August 28, 2014 My piece #40 "paddle" made of a scrap piece of plywood; Their curvature has to change to match the AOS. clearway, druxey and mtaylor 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfolsom Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share #23 Posted August 28, 2014 A very rough fit of these parts to the bulkhead. Again, I'm loosely modeling after Caldercraft, but I am trying to follow McKay as closely as possible. mtaylor, druxey and clearway 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NenadM Posted August 29, 2014 Share #24 Posted August 29, 2014 Nice head-breaking job you give to yourself. It is not complicated AT ALL ! Just keep following one drawings trying to match to other drawings. Nothing is easier, indead ! 1 REM "magic circle" 5 FOR bob = 1 TO 3 6 LET a=CS; b=VIC; c=NIA 7 PRINT bob,a 8 PRINT bob,b 9 PRINT bob,c 10 RND rib 20 POKE drawing 30 DEL woodpiece 40 NEXT bob 50 RETURN to magic circle I forgot syntax and comands, but you get a point? mtaylor, rfolsom and clearway 3 Quote In progress: CUTTY SARK - Tehnodidakta => scratch => Campbell plans http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/2501-cutty-sark-by-nenad-tehnodidakta-scratched-campbells-plans/page-1#entry64653 Content of log : http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/2501-cutty-sark-by-nenad-tehnodidakta-scratched-campbells-plans/page-62#entry217381 Past build: Stella, Heller kit, plastic, Santa Maria, Tehnodidakta kit, wood, Jolly Roger Heller kit, plastic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfolsom Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share #25 Posted August 29, 2014 That's awesome, Nenad! I believe you are missing a GOSUB to go with your RETURN, but I get the point, this is an endless subroutine call involving the three variables. (If I introduce any more variables into the code, my poor little 8-bit Zilog Z-80 brain will probably crash...) mtaylor, clearway, trippwj and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfolsom Posted August 30, 2014 Author Share #26 Posted August 30, 2014 More bow shaping pieces are cut out; Modified Caldercraft pairs 41, 42, and 20. Had to file out the slots in bulkhead No. 1 for these guys to fit. Notice in the first picture, the matching template lines; this is unmodified Caldercraft (except to scale from 1:72 to 1:78)..... The cut outside dimensions are AOS, which had to be adapted. This might be due to the double plank for the kit, but I will be single planking. The raw plywood at and above the upper gun deck needs to be finalized; these frames will be planked and ceiled, and I will probably frame each individual gunport, as opposed to using the templates. Cheers, Bob NenadM and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfolsom Posted August 30, 2014 Author Share #27 Posted August 30, 2014 And with very minor adjustment, pieces 20 follow the bearding line of AOS perfectly. clearway, NenadM and mtaylor 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NenadM Posted August 30, 2014 Share #28 Posted August 30, 2014 It seems pretty complicated ... Quote In progress: CUTTY SARK - Tehnodidakta => scratch => Campbell plans http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/2501-cutty-sark-by-nenad-tehnodidakta-scratched-campbells-plans/page-1#entry64653 Content of log : http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/2501-cutty-sark-by-nenad-tehnodidakta-scratched-campbells-plans/page-62#entry217381 Past build: Stella, Heller kit, plastic, Santa Maria, Tehnodidakta kit, wood, Jolly Roger Heller kit, plastic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfolsom Posted August 31, 2014 Author Share #29 Posted August 31, 2014 One piece at a time... Court proceedings would be VERY complicated... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NenadM Posted August 31, 2014 Share #30 Posted August 31, 2014 (edited) When you are begginer - yes. When you do this 30 years, you know this procedure better than many of judges (in Serbia). But still you can nor know all about civil procedure, criminal procedure, company procedure, tax procedure etc etc. Somewhere in life you must chose and specialize in some area. Similar as modeling - planes, cars, trains, dioramas, jewelery, dool houses, ships (plastic or wood), furniture, ... life is too short for everything. Same question about books, music, art, movies. Fortunately, this is not question about Admirals. You can try but you can not model Here, you must listen her music. see her movies and series, or simply run away in your shipyard Edited August 31, 2014 by Nenad M mtaylor and rfolsom 2 Quote In progress: CUTTY SARK - Tehnodidakta => scratch => Campbell plans http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/2501-cutty-sark-by-nenad-tehnodidakta-scratched-campbells-plans/page-1#entry64653 Content of log : http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/2501-cutty-sark-by-nenad-tehnodidakta-scratched-campbells-plans/page-62#entry217381 Past build: Stella, Heller kit, plastic, Santa Maria, Tehnodidakta kit, wood, Jolly Roger Heller kit, plastic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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