Jolly Roger by Brenticus - FINISHED - Lindberg - PLASTIC - As a Royal Navy Frigate

[Brenticus]

Greetings!  Newbie here.  After dabbling with a couple of Age of Sail models (one is still ongoing), I finally decided to do the Jolly Roger, by Lindberg (seemed a lot simpler than my Heller 74/ Le Superbe).  This kit was also known as the frigate La Flore (originally) and also the Flying Dutchman.  But now it’s the Jolly Roger because all square rigged vessels with cannon have to be pirate ships.   Sigh…

 

Anyway, it was/is my intention to use this kit to create a sort of generic 18^th century Royal Navy frigate, but not any specific frigate from the Royal Navy of that era.  Also, I am building this as a gift for my mother (a motivation which helps all the mess pass muster with my wife), Patricia. 

 

Thus, I decided to name her the HMS Patrician.  No ships of the era are named Patrician, but there is a WWI vessel called Patrician, so there’s that.

 

Anyhow, I am working on a deadline so there are some corners I have cut.  She’s a little paint-by numbers, very little nuance in the colors of the deck, fittings, side stripe, etc.  And most of the yellow is not the correct ochre-color, but I think she still looks pretty good.

 

I am now done with the hull, excepting a few touch ups.  She's a little sloppy, by the standard of so many other builds I have seen, but I'm sure I will improve in time- and I doubt either of my parents will mind.

 

  Here’s some pics, early and new:

 

 

 

 

I have opted not to do ropes for the gunports on this build, for the sake of speed.  I will be adding the ropes for my Heller 74 however.

 

So far I have to say the fit of this kit leaves a lot to be desired.  The boards where the ratlines attach didn't fit at all, and I had to whittle down some of it to fit.  Same with the bowsprit, which I have test fitted.

 

 

The ornamentation near the bow (I forget the word) absolutely did.  Not.  Fit.  So I had to take it apart and bend it into shape...sort of.  Hopefully it passes muster for a newbie, and hopefully nobody will mind. 

 

There is no place to lash the boats to the deck, so I just glued a few strings around the boats and inserted the whole into place.  I think the effect is pretty good, all things considered.  I have also opted not to add ropes as gun tackle- hopefully no one will notice.

 

 

A lot of parts needed trimming, and some didn't fit.  But overall, I'm proud of her.  There aren't many plastic frigate kits- especially at this scale.  And the lindberg kits are very cheap.  So while it is a flawed kit, I think it's a good buy.

 

Now, I get to tackle the rigging of a Kings Ship for the first time.  I will post updates as I take on this challenge!

[popeye the sailor]

it's a very nice take on this kit I think as long as one stays with the era in which this style of ship would be found, it really wouldn't matter what you called it. I have this kit as well, and I have read many accounts of poor fit and bad design. heck.......one fellow even did away wit the plastic decks and made them from wood {like I've done with my United States}. you've done a great job thus far

[Brenticus]

So, I finished the foremast last night, as well as the bowsprit.  Both need some touch ups- pretty heavily in a couple of places.

 

 

The masts fit so poorly, needed so much shaving down and cutting, they might as well be from another kit.  Honestly, these parts are a nightmare. 

 

I had everything nice and painted (my mistake to not try and fit them beforehand), then I went to put it all together.  The top of the fore mainmast would NOT fit through the hole in the top, so I had to cut the top of the mast down...and down...and down again.  I probably cut about a fifth off of that mast around the top before it would fit properly.

Then I tried to fit the fore topmast.  Not much better.  It ended up getting stuck most of the way through, but just a little short- about 3/16 of an inch.  I'll have to fill it in with putty.  It's pretty well stuck not and weakened from the ordeal of getting in there at all.  But it seemed like it would fit.  Oh well.

 

Finally, the crosstrees where the ratlines (I'm using the standard ones, they don't seem too terrible compared to some) was really just a nightmare.  I was told to add the bottoms of the ratlines before fitting the crosstrees.  But if you do that, then there's NO room to get the ratlines far enough up to be locked into the piece before its fitted over the mast (which holds them in).  So I had to pull out my ratlines from the fighting top, get them to stay in the piece (a job under the best circumstances), all the while also trying to slide that piece back onto the topmast.  I fiddled with the thing so long, it became bent and weak with fatigue. 

 

BUT.  I did eventually manage it. And I managed to get the ratlines back in place on the fighting tops.  I shaved down the topgallant mast (barely even tried without cutting) and fitted it.    Then, I dropped the whole thing into place.  Shockingly, the foremast itself fit perfectly into the hull, with no fuss whatsoever.

 

The bowsprit was fine, but their molded lashings around it won't work.  That's fine, they look terrible anyway.

 

WHEW.  One mast down, two to go.

Maybe the next two will be easier, but I'm not holding my breath lol.  

 

Learning a lot though.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Brenticus

[popeye the sailor]

looks very  good    plastic kits are 50/50........you get some that fit well.........and then there are some that fit.........well?!?!....I call it  'determination out loud'         your making me want to pull my kit out......but that would be suicide,  with all the builds I have.   the admiral would kill me! 

[Brenticus]

Thanks!  I'm glad it's still is in one piece after the couple of hours of rage-fitting it went through lol.

 

I'm not sure if it's determination at this point or just finishing the thing just to spite Lindberg haha.  Jk, I don't think I can complain/expect too much about/from an 18.00 kit.

 

I know the feeling lol.  I'm very new to wooden model ships, but I'm working on a couple other projects myself already.  I was in the model shop the other day and one of the kits was open.  All the pieces where there, so the owner offered it to me for about 25% off.  But with a 74 gun ship, galleon, and frigate still waiting to be completed, I figured I had better not.  And every time I pass a model of a warbird, I have to talk myself out of getting it lol.

[popeye the sailor]

my second love are funny cars and dragsters........I've been on a hiatus of sorts,  and I though I'd do one for another site I frequent.  the box says that a ten year old can do it......I tend to disagree      if you haven't started a wood kit yet......I think you'll find them a bit more involved than plastic,  but the rewards are so much more     from what I'm seeing though,  if you can make heads or tails out of this kit......you'll be right at home with a wood build.

[Brenticus]

Lol funny how those labels work.  Perhaps they mean the box can be operated by a 10 year old?  Lol.

 

I have not yet started a wood kit, but I find I really want to.  I'm glad you think I can handle it, as I've decided that after I get all of this taken care of (including the Wappen Von Hamburg/ Captain Kidd...it's for my dad's b-day....but the Heller 74 can wait), I'm going to tackle the Sultana by Model Shipways.  I've heard it's easy enough, with good instructions.  And it's a very neat little brig. 

I'm trying to learn as much as I can making these few builds before I move onto the wood kits, but I can't wait to do them.  There's just something about it, aside from how good they look.  Especially when I see POB construction...it's like a real mini shipyard, like building a real ship- or that's the feeling it evokes. 

 

Hopefully one day (probably a long time from now) I will be at a point where I can tackle the 1:100 HMS Bellona.  Or the Surprise.  Haven't decided.

[Rick01]

I've just finished this kit and although I had no trouble with the fit of the masts I've had major problems with the alignment of the lower ratlines as the boards sit too far back for the ratlines to align properly with the holes in the tops. I actually sprung them all into place after fitting all the masts but before fitting any spars. I also found that the gun deck would not align properly and thus all the cannon sit off centre.

[Brenticus]

Hmmm, that's interesting.  I didn't have any trouble with the ratlines (aside from the holes not being big enough, but the instructions told me they'd have to be bored out anyway).  Although they were a tad short- I couldn't get the ratlines all the way up...had to leave one notch exposed near the crosstrees.

 

I guess this kit must be really inconsistent in quality.

[popeye the sailor]

I had an article about this kit.........read all about it.  it was not good.......you assessments about the kit are correct    too bad I tossed the article out.....I'd post it for you folks to read.  the experience that you gained with this kit.....and others like it,  will serve you well when you try your hand with a wood kit 

 

I did plastic for many years.  did quite a bit of bash work with existing kits and parts.....never knew about plastruct and evergreen.....so I hardly got into scratch building.  when I'd go to a hobby store,  I'd look at these wooden kits and think to myself,  that they were way over my head.  then one day,  I got a wood kit thrown in my lap......an old kit of the Billing's Nordkap.   it was already started and the parts weren't even laser cut.  talk about look'in like a deer in the headlights!  well......I built it.......even did some bash work........and even a bit of scratch.  the kit was so old,  the parts I couldn't use,  I had to make.   all this came about,  because someone saw my work and thought I could handle a wood kit.   I am just trying to pay it forward     the beauty here is....you don't need any special tools to build one.

      sure......a pin pusher is nice........and power tool are a plus.......but personally,  I've been getting along just fine with simple hand tools.   I have found the most fun in taking these  'hard to deal with'  kits,  and make them work.  I've always found them the most challenging.  the funny part about it,  is that it was the admiral who saw this kit.......liked it,  and wanted me to buy it     then I read all the dirt about it.........what a hoot!

 

OK.......now hold out your arm........and let the wood bug bite you........    caution:  there is no antidote.

[Brenticus]

Popeye,

That sounds interesting, I think I'll google around and see if I can find that article. 

 

*holds out arm* OUCH!  I'm bleeding!  Wait, is that...is that sawdust??

 

Honestly, I believe wooden models are where my heart lies over the plastic ones.  Much in the same way that my heart lies with old wooden vessels with ropes and canvas more than it does with (admittedly awesome) battleships and destroyers and such.  Which is to say all of them are totally sweet, but the wooden ships really get me. 

 

I appreciate the vote of confidence, and I am very much looking forward already to a Sultana build.  Indeed, I believe I have very much caught the bug.  However, I am somewhat torn.  I plan on building another ship for my father's birthday in November, the Lindberg Captain Kidd, and I am partway through the Heller 74.  The 74 will almost certainly have to wait, as I am wanting to make it almost perfect with the rigging...wooden blocks...the works.

 

I'm not sure if I should complete both before moving onto wooden models (a realm from which I may ne'er return), complete my dad's kit before doing the Sultana (finishing the 74 later), or putting both on hold (or maybe never doing the Captain Kidd/ Wappen Von Hamburg)- and making the Sultana for my dad.

 

About how long do you think it would take more me to finish the Sultana properly?  That would be using simple hand tools like you have discussed- I have no garage and few tools.  Plus I find that there is something about working with wood with simple tools- probably because it's closer to how the real ships would have been created, I suppose. 

 

If I started a Sultana build in a couple of weeks, might I be able to finish it by mid-November if I worked on it daily?  I'm betting it would take a lot longer, but I really don't know.  Most of the build logs mention a very long build time, but most people have less free time than I (married but no children and a very understanding wife) so I am not sure.

[Brenticus]

Oh, and I added the Main and Mizzen masts, etc.  Same issues with fitting, but this time I was ready, so it wasn't much of an issue.

 

 

Now for the rigging.  I think I've got this. 

[popeye the sailor]

ohhhh wait!   was that a wood pixie?    darn........I hate it when they throw the sawdust in your face   :D

 

a Sultana......depending on the scale and how much you want to put into her.......that's pretty ambitious    it's a tough question.......some folks can really put the time in,  on a plastic build,  adding detail that the kit lacks.   but considering what needs to be done,  I would say that a wood build takes longer.  on a build like that......at best,  you can double the time factor.   sailing ship or fishing boat........the type of vessel you going to do,  will also indicat how long it will take to build it.

 

but,  I will say this.......be careful with time frames.......they can suck the life out of any build.  this hobby isn't based on how long it takes.....it's based on enjoyment.  to rush through a build,  you can miss out on total comprehension of some {if not all} of the techniques,  in building a wooden ship.  folks model for a variety of reasons......but the best reason by far,  is that you want to see that box of sticks and parts come alive.  take the time to savor and enjoy this wonderful medium of ours

 

your coming along quite nicely with the build.  you really know how to tempt someone..........don't you   

[Brenticus]

Yeah, I will admit I am a little afraid of the hobby turning into work by going straight into another kit for my dad.  Especially if I do the Wappen Von Hamburg before the Sultana...I'm a little afraid I'll burn myself out by the time I get to what I really want to do. 

 

Perhaps I should save the WVH/Captain Kidd until next year, and just make the Sultana for myself right now.  I was going to use the WVH as a medium to learn how to paint/wash to really make decks look like wood...but there's no rush there if the kit is already wood lol.

 

As for tempting, it's an 18.00 model at our local Hobby Lobby...cheap enough to abandon if you don't like it!  Just sayin'    Though if I wanted to be REALLY tempting, I would use the tiny little wooden deadeyes I bought for my 74 on this one.  But I'll keep those for my Blue Ensign Le Praetorian knockoff lol. 

 

I did buy a little Blue Ensign (not to be confused with the user on this forum lol) and commissioning pennant for this model.  I believe they will be very much the thing.  It's funny how you get excited about the little things lol.
 

[mtaylor]

Go back before it's too.... oh never mind, you got the bug.    :D   You're doing a great job on bashing this into a frigate and you've picked up two skills needed for wood:  patience and attention to detail. 

 

Is that sawdust I smell?  

[historyguysteve]

Bless your heart for ever and ever. The whole point of this hobby/art is to have fun and you seem to be doing that with gusto!!!

I also see a few of our colleauges are teasing you to do the wood - stick to the fun and if the plastic stuff is cheap but challenging and fulfilling - just do it. I'm following your build with a huge smile on my face- keep posting and have fun:):)

  thanks

  Steve

[Brenticus]

Thanks, I must say I am quite proud of my little frigate, and I've really enjoyed learning all of the skills of modeling and bashing lol.

 

I do like my simple plastic kits, but I'm a pretty easy sell on wooden kits, there's a real allure there for me (how often have I looked at the HMS Bellona kit and dreamed lol). I'm easy to talk into wood kits just because I really want to make them

 

But while I have caught the bug pretty bad (really want that Sultana lol), I probably won't quit plastics either. I especially want to lean how to make those plastic parts really look like wood.

 

I'm really glad folks are enjoying my little frigate build, and I look forward to challenging myself in both mediums. I can see this as a hobby/art I'll probably cultivate for the rest of my life, and it's fun to learn new things from every new kit- and from all the helpful and friendly people here on this forum.

 

I think I might try some very simple hand-made ratlines using wire (an idea I got from Blue Ensigns astoundingly great Superbe build, but I'm sure it has also been used elsewhere) or maybe just some good thread. It's another skill to learn, and hopefully will look really good.

 

Pictures of a successful effort soon I hope!

[Brenticus]

Okay I rigged the first set of deadeyes...I'm not ready for that yet lol. Not at this scale lol.

 

I think I'll just stick with the shrouds that are supplied, unless they are super loose. Then I'll make my own and just glue on the crappy plastic ones.

 

I'll save the deadeye work for my Sultana build when I get that lol.

 

I might still do my own shrouds, but I'm done with these tiny deadeyes until I finish my 74 or do a wooden kit lol.

[Brenticus]

Aaaaaand I've lost the instructions. Apparently. lol

[Brenticus]

Well, I have installed the shrouds/ratlines, and I think they look pretty decent (a lot better than the totally square ones from the 1/196 constitution that in picked up and never built anyway).

 

 

 

ANYONE BUILDING THIS KIT TAKE NOTE: However, the ratlines did not fit into the recesses in the boards, something Lindberg must have anticipated, as it suggested I cut them further open to fit right). The problem is, the boards were already installed, so I had to trim them while attached, a tricky practice at best. I knocked off a few rails and gunport lids in the process but eventually got them fit. I would recommend anyone building this kit widen the notches BEFORE installing the boards, and checking for fit.

 

There wasn't much room for the gunport lids so I had to move the "chains" around a bit. Furthermore, I didn't install them in the recommended way, which was inserting the lower ends into the holes in the side of the ship first, but the deadeyes seemed like they would be way too high above the boards, and it seemed too brittle to bend like that. So I just glued them on. The holes and results can be seen here:

 

 

It's not ideal, but it will do for this build. Personally, I think the chains look worse than the ratlines.

 

All in all though, I'm fairly pleased with the result, though the masts seem to have a slight take to them that I don't believe is correct for the period. The masts seem pretty well centered, I think (but am sadly ignorant of what is considered good or bad here), though the fighting tops aren't quite level

 

 

Next up, the stays.

[clearway]

looking good- hows the wood virus coming along- have you been taken over yet by it?  Was reading you asking about time scales- a two masted schooner or fishing boat takes me about 6-8 months, cutty sark 4 years if you exclude all the breaks from the build! I agree with popeye all you need are basic tools- steel rule, craft knife, a set of needle files, pin vice, some needle nose pliers and a small pin hammer. also sand paper- shed loads of it lol- wrapped around a piece of wood it beats a surfoam.

Keith

[Brenticus]

Indeed I have caught the big quite badly. I can't wait to try the Sultana- and really sink my teeth into it. To try and make something that could be in a museum or something. To just go all out and not cut any corners- and with the right tools/pieces too.

 

Also, I have finished the stays on my frigate. I made two mistakes.

1. I didn't run the mizzen topmast stay through the fighting top but I'm hoping no one will notice.

2. I glued the mizzen topgallant stay to the main topmast in a way that the part going around the mast at the main topmast isn't level. It's not very noticeable however, and I plan to cover it up with some small black tape.

 

Still and all, I think it looks pretty decent.

 

 

I'm going out of order, so my next step is to add the backstays. And I've ordered some silkspan from Bluejacket to make sails with.

 

After I fix those to the yards, all I'll have to do is attach the yards, rig them, and I will be finished!

 

It will be great to have my first (completed) build under my belt!

[Brenticus]

Well, I have fitted the anchor and anchor chains (coiled per instructions). I believe they may be a tad large, as far as scale goes. How do they look? I am quite proud of my coils, large or not lol. The anchors have been hung per instructions as well.

 

Furthermore, I have finished adding the spritsail yards and accompanying rigging, in a lighter color which I believe is appropriate. I love the look of it.

 

I do have a question however regarding a sail plan. If the wind is on her aft larboard quarter, what would a likely sail plan be? I generally would like to see a lot of canvas- all of the square sails at least- in the end. Or perhaps I should change the sail plan for the wind to be directly abaft?

 

What are your opinions?

[Brenticus]

That is, all square sails but the spritsail. I do not plan on using one. And the staysails might be a bit much so I probably won't use those either, unless you all think differently.

[Blue Ensign]

Brenticus, I think you need to re-visit your anchor cables.

 

They should feed thro' the hawse holes in the bow not over the cathead. It is the Cat tackle with a hook used to connect with the anchor that feeds thro' sheaves in the cathead and is belayed on the Foc'sle.

 

Cheers,

 

B.E.

[popeye the sailor]

B.E.  has a point there........are there hawse holes in the bow?  {I'll have to look at my kit to see}.    other than that.......I think you've done a splendid jog so far!      rigging looks great as well.

 

if you don't plan on doing sails.........the yards straight across is good.   if your going to do sails,  a neat little detail point would be to turn the yards port or starboard {whichever is her better side}......about 20 degrees in that direction {or as close to it as the ratlines will allow}.  if both sides are good ........I can't help you there   

[Brenticus]

Thanks for the feedback, B.E.  I'm afraid, though, that this kit does not have hawseholes. 

 

 

What would you all suggest I do to make this look correct (or at least approach correct lol)?  It might be a dangerous operation to drill a hole in the hull at this stage, but I am not opposed to it

 

This makes a lot more sense now, since I saw the instructions and I was like "its just coiled up on deck?  It's not attached to anything?  What is the capstan even for if they just haul on these lines?  I should have gone with my gut on that one, and questioned it.  I hope I can salvage this.  Maybe keep the coils but not attach them to the anchor...hmmm.

 

In fact, there isn't even a hole in the bow through which I can feed the lashings of the bowsprit- even though it's in the directions! 

 

I guess this is why one should always do the research lol. 

 

@ Popeye,

I was thinking of doing that exact thing (regarding turning the yards to starboard a bit).  Well this confirms it, I'll do that for sure, though I'm still not sure which other sails I should use.  Aside from omitting the spritsail just because I don't like them on anything built after the 1700's or so, they look old-fashioned to me (and yet I love the look of a lateen sail.  I contradict myself)  Just my own aesthetic sense. 

 

Thanks again for the feedback, all.  My build is simple, and it doesn't have to be perfect, but I don't want it to just look wrong, so I appreciate the feedback.

[popeye the sailor]

I went to my kit.........I was appalled that the case is true.....NO HOLE!!!!   these guys should be shot at sunrise!   for a quick and easy way out of this one,  we'll just do this.    I used a 3/32 drill for this......at the end of the trail board,  there is a half moon curvature......just drill it there.  {I used this size because it is close to what the printed detail looks like}  you can use a smaller size if you wish.

 

 

I cleaned up the gun deck and put it in place.......the hole is below that.

 

 

rerig it with a single piece of thread {or chain,  if you prefer),  using a wire as a snake,  threading it though both holes.  another method for rigging this is to make a large knot and simply push it through the hole........you can add a spot of glue to the knot from the inside with a needle applicator {Testor's sells them}........they fit on the tip of the tube.

 

 

I like to use those applicators for my tubes of wood filler...........cut the tip so it fits snugly,  and I can extrude a fine bead if filler along edges and corners.

[Brenticus]

I see!  I'll have to take care of this tonight. 

 

Thanks for the step-by step instructions and the photos, it will be most helpful!

 

Wait, what about the second pair of anchors?  Or do I just put all 4 anchor cables through the same hawsehole?

[popeye the sailor]

the other two are reserve anchors.......they are not rigged as far as I know.  they are just lashed to the sides of the bow.   on this scale,  it may too much to do the anchor ring puddening,  but with thin enough thread,  it can be done.   puddening is done by merely wrapping the anchor ring with the thread,  to make it appear so. 

 

the hawse hole adjustment will be very easy to do.....do it slowly,  without a lot of pressure,  and you'll be fine.  actually .......I thank you   I had looked at the kit,  but i never noticed it.  I will keep these pictures and add them to my reference folder.

 

the more I know.......the better it will go! 

 

it even got the admiral squawk'in.........."you know...........I picked out that kit..........an' you haven't even built it!  what's up with that?"  who need a can o' worms,  when all I need is a box   

Edited September 10, 2014 by popeye the sailor