Second planking - what glue and the best method

Hi folks,

in my build I am in stage that I will start second planking soon. I planked
1st layer by limewood strips and for second layer I have veneer walnut strips 0,5x4mm.

I would like to ask you for sharing your experiences with second planking,
which glue you used on your models and what technique you prefer.

Regarding to glue - I read on this forum that one member fit weneer strip on the beginning by CA glue, then applied PVA glue on the rest and iron it by hot solder. It dries glue and wapor weneer for better bending. Other prefers contact glue - apply it on both hull and plank, wait several minutes and then join. What is your favorite glue for second planking ?

Regarding to technique - some of you taper each plank as is needed so the entire plank runs from stem to stern, others leave plank width as is, firstly lay horizontal plank and then cut planks below it in the joint. I think that tapering 0,5mm veneer is not such easy job. Can you please share your ways for accomplish this task without nightmares ?

Second layer will be the skin of ship, it cannot be filled nor much sanded, as the thickness of veneer is only 0,5mm.

Thanks a lot in advance for your replies !

Regards,

Michal

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:09 pm • Post subject:

Hi

My preference is to use just CA now having completed my 3rd model hull. PVA water based adhesives will white stain the timber if you are to varnish the wood. CA will also mark a little but its closer to the varnish finish. Best part of CA is the grab, it doe snot always grab instantly and using a high viscosity one does give some movement, its more likely to bond to your fingers first. CA can cause bonding of weak edges of the veneer to fingers where the timber is often very open grain, I have found this with the walnut supplied in the kits I have built. Wetting the timber slightly will speed up the adhesive grab as CA is moisture sensitive, thats why it grabs your fingers so well.

All in all I would recommend CA

Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:12 pm • Post subject:

Hi Normanh,

thanks a lot for suggestion. I used CA on 1st layer. CA is dry in few seconds, I very appreciate it, because I hold plank by hands and had not nail them to bulkheads and wait until glue dries, it should be long time in case of PVA.

Thank you for information about CA moisture sensitiveness, it is very useful to know.

Regards,

Michal

Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:28 pm • Post subject:

Michal,
on my only completed model (AL Endeavour), I used contact cement, sometimes known as gel grip. There were no real problems as long as you clean off the excess before it sets. As to tapering 0.5mm veneer, it is best accomplished with a very sharp blade (ie scalpel) and a steel rule. The trick is to use several shallow cuts rather than one deep cut to remove the excess veneer. This will help ensure the timber doesn't split along the grain.

All the best,
Grant.

Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:12 pm • Post subject:

Generally, I don't like using CA fro the second planking. It is very useful for the first layer when you have to glue to bulkheads, but on the outside layer when you have 100% surface availability, I think CA is a little overkill, plus it will, as already noted, tend to grab your fingers since the walnut is so thin and has open "pores".

I admit that I have never tried contact cement, so I can't repond to that method.

I use Titebond III for the most part, with maybe a very small dab of CA where the curves are severe.

But, I prefer to lay my second layer of planking with cut pieces similar to decking. Using a 4 or 5 repeat pattern, and calculating that a common length of hull planking was 20'-25', I cut my planks to that scale. I have found that the shorter pieces are easier to work with, taper well, and if you make a mistake, you only have to redo a small piece...saves wood and time.

One last comment on CA.....As noted earlier, CA grabs because of moisture, but a lot of moisture will dilute its grab. I keep a wet rag available to wash off every plank piece as I add it. That generally will take care of any glue residue.

Tim

Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:02 am • Post subject:

Thanks for your replies guys.

Grant, I also read on this forum, that cutting veneer with scissors is good for tapering as well. I will try both method (scalpes and scissors) to find out what is better for me.

Tim, Titebond III is PVA glue (I found it on google, as we have not such glue in my country Very Happy

). How do you hold veneer planks on the hull while glue is dry ? It cannot be pinned through, I think.
I am also thinking about cutting veneer strips on smaller pieces, I saw hull made by this method on this forum and it was nice. As you said, smaller parts are more convenient for planking. And I think that it is more realistic also, because I did not see walnut tree almost 50 meters height (scale of ship is 1:98 and hull have almost 50cm length) Very Happy

Thanks a lot for your suggestions.

Michal

Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:13 am • Post subject:

here is that ship planked by cut planks:

http://modelshipworld.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8890&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=210

I think it is nice. My ship La Couronne is little bit more difficult, but I hope I will do the same excellent work Wink

Michal

Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:52 pm • Post subject:

Michal,

Not sure about how Titebond III is, but I have found PVA glues vary a lot on the tack. A glue with good tack will hold veneer almost immediately. I would suggest trying some different brands where you are for one with a high tack. The ones with lower tack can be used on other jobs like gluing trennels. Here I have found Elmer's Carpenter's glue would work on all but the tight bends that you probably want to clamp or use some CA to help hold it on. Also if you know any local furniture makers, they can probably tell you which glues available to you have a high tack.

Hoss

Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:38 pm • Post subject:

Hey guys, my kit says to use "contact glue" aka "shoemakers glue" on the 2nd planking. I'm very much a beginner. Is CA "shoemakers glue?" PVA is regular carpenter's/elmer's glue?

Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:37 am • Post subject:

CA is super glue
PVA is carpenters glue. I personally like the tite-bond versions.

Some people use a little CA glue with the PVA to act as a clamp while the PVA sets.

I would use PVA on the second hull planking, but that is only an opinion, I have only planked one kit hull.