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Found 18 results

  1. At the time of commencing this build log (November 2023) I have already been working on Part 1 of the project since 2015, which amounted to researching the ship herself and what Victory really looked like at Trafalgar. Now I know people will point to the Victory herself in Portsmouth and say that’s what she looked like, after all they have been restoring her off and on for a century so you would think they (NMRN) of all people would know, but actually no, it isn’t what she looked like. It may be that is how they label her, and that it has been the objective of her restoration since the 1920’s, and has been ongoing ever since. It was clear to me back in 2015 that the present Victory did not look like some of the strictly contemporary images I had recently been viewing, this is described in the attachments, and of course you will need to read the work for the background and results. You will see I use the term ‘strictly contemporary’ throughout the paper, and this is important, it both highlights and describes primary sources of works of evidential value from 1801 to 1806. Art Works and other records of Victory first produced at a later date, of which there are many, especially after 1814/16 when the ship was radically altered, are voluminous whilst passingly informative, do not carry the same provenance when considering her Trafalgar guise. Unfortunately, a substantive body of the Nelsonic art works, including images of the Victory, grew in preponderance in the 19th Century, and these works continue to dominate the visual record. Accordingly, there is a lot of myth that surrounds Victory, much of this grew up in the century after Trafalgar, especially with the Victorians recasting Nelson, Trafalgar and HMS Victory to reflect the values of their time. Much of this ‘doe-eyed romanticism’ hung over into the early 20th Century and made its way into the restored Victory and Nelsonic cannon of the time. The accompanying volume to this build-log looks back to the records before this dreamy rose-tinted time, but I also draw on the modern research that can be validated. I deliberately caveat my references to modern studies, as even some of today’s authors, including some of the biggest of names in maritime history, are not beyond repeating the hyperbole and mistakes of their Victorian antecedents. Neither are they beyond repeating the ‘findings’ of others, which upon examination of the historic archive do not hold up to scrutiny. I have labelled the result of my research ‘Nelson’s Victory Revealed’, my intention is to release that work in PDF format in conjunction with this build log. Included in this first part is the first instalment, principally the contents, introduction and review of the background research materials. I’ve also enclosed numerically the final 2 parts, the Bibliography and End Notes as they will be needed throughout for cross reference purposes (parts 12 & 13). There is a separate dedicated thread for the Research under ‘Discussions for ships plans and Project Research ….. etc.’, I’ll also post these over there as well. So, after enough waffle, on to ‘Part 2’, of the project - the build! Whilst I would have liked to have built the Victory in 1:64 scale utilising the prospective Amati Victory as a basis with the ability to detail all decks, it is not available at this time, and I am keen to make a start so waiting isn’t an option. So, I have purchased the Caldercraft 1:72 version from Jotika. I had considered scratch building, but I am being realistic about my abilities. I have scratch built HMS Trincomalee in 1:64 plank on bulkhead, or rather more correctly, part built – I’ve completed fitting out the Gundeck, but a First Rate is an entirely different proposition. I had though initially about opening up the Caldercraft Middle Gun Deck and detailing it, however, it just happens that Artesania Latina have also just released a 1:72 scale Main Mast Cross-section, timing couldn’t be better. I’m going to build this in tandem with the Caldercraft kit, or more accurately slightly ahead of it. This will allow me to detail items such as the double height chain pumps, Riders to all decks, pump well and multiple shot lockers, and multiple gun patterns. In terms of reference material, well there is that small volume I’ve already mentioned, and I have also collected in pursuit of my research a substantial volume of reference material, all of which is listed in the Bibliography. Then there are also in 1:48 scale all available Victory draughts and plans from the NMM, together with those of the Boyne. In addition, I have Bugler’s 1:48 plans and a set of John McKay’s drawings in 1:64 – so no shortage conflicting materials to draw from! Then there are the prints I have also obtained from the NMM, including both Turner and Stanfield’s Trafalgar works, as well as those of EW Cooke and Pocock. Some of these are now framed and adorn the library by kind permission of the Admiral, I’ll get around to posting a few photo’s of these. I claim they are for inspiration, but truth is sat in front of an open fire next to a decanter of Talisker Whisky there is collectively more of a soporific effect (cue Master and Commander on the iPad and miss the end of the film again 😊). I will also need to capture some side profiles early for the later fabrication of the many fenders, and the head chutes. At some time there is the stern and quarter gallery shapes to confront and reconfigure, but this will be an iterative process as these can only be done when the hull is at a stage that the quarter gallery patterns can be fitted and shaped., which in turn help establish the stern shape. The kit will be augmented with an authentic mix of Blomefield and Armstrong-Frederick guns – spoiler alert, Victory did not carry a uniform pattern of guns throughout at Trafalgar, like much of the British Fleet there was a fair bit of mix and match. Also, forget 104 guns, there were 96 + 2 Carronades, speaking of which, there will be some bashing of carronades to get something akin to the prevailing pattern in the early 1790’s when Victory’s were probably cast, rather than the poorly formed replicas we see aboard the ship today. The Upper Deck will get its steam trunking, sick berth, and internal galley chimney. There will be more supplements to the kit as the build progresses. Painting will be in the new colours as I’m a believer in the science and the research undertaken to establish these, particularly when combined with the Rase Mark analysis on the ship. There will be some tonal adjustments to the palette to account for the optics at scale. She will also get the pattern extending around the stem, NO black gunport lids – that is wrong, and lower white masts with the hoops painted out and white underside fighting tops as were worn at Trafalgar. I’m not going to do an un-boxing, there are enough of these around already. What I do need to sort is either a building board or cradle of some form, but I think I’ll address that when I’ve got the skeleton assembled and have more of a feel for handling the model in the space available. Below is a photo of progress to date, first up were modifications to the stem. The kit provided stem reflects the present Victory, but is both too short and low for 1805. This necessitated some amputation and the insertion of a filler piece to throw the head further forward and upwards. There was some additional shaping and profiling with the horizontal bow filler pieces to obtain the necessary profile, which itself was thinned down from the stempost forwards and from where the third cheek down to where it is affixed to the keel. A sacrificial profile or template for the placement of the bearding line at the bow was added at this point, this follows the correct profile and will require further refinement as the work progresses. I also took the time to replace the kit keel which as supplied is a uniform 5mm x 10mm. Based on the Bugler midship section it needs to be 7mm x 11.5mm plus a false keel strip. In addition, it needs reducing in width at each end tapering down from 63mm out to fair-in with the stern and stem posts. Elements of the keel were pre-rabbeted to match the bearding lines. All of this will be covered in copper plates anyway. A new stern post was fabricated using the kit version as a template, instead of a uniform 5mm the correct width at the top is 8.5mm tapering down to match the keel. This will be fitted after planking. Brass rod is used throughout to strengthen the joints of these pieces, much of which is capped over with pear strip. I have also blasted the dummy gunport liners and cabin spaces with some rattle can paints, these areas won’t be seen directly, but I felt some appropriate colouration wouldn’t hurt. For those who haven’t seen the AL cross section yet I’ve attached two images below, one shows the frame they are using to build up the cross section, and the other is of their finished product. That’s it for now. Gary Nelson's Victory Revealed Pt. 1 Background Materials.pdf Nelson's Victory Revealed Pt. 13 References Endnotes.pdf Nelson's Victory Revealed Pt. 12 Bibliography.pdf
  2. Thank you for allowing me to join the group. I love ship in general and sailing ship in particular. I wanted to get into building wooden ship model for a long time but didn't know how. Luckily I was able to obtain a wonderful half built HMS Victory. The ship is in fair condition and comes with all the parts but without instruction. I hope to join this group and have support to get me through the completion process. I don't know the brand of the model, so I put few pictures of the ship. Hopefully, the experts here can help identify it or refer me to a good manual to continue the build. Thanks!
  3. i start this ship at January 18, 2010 still in progress of Building i belive it took time more than the real on i restart working after year and half of stoping it i just finish all the cooper things and next week i will start to finish all the plank and gun port hope not taking long time to finish
  4. Hello again! I have started second planking but am undecided how to proceed beyond this point. Photos show that midships I need 10 more planks @5mm or a fraction less. At the stern post I have 70mm to fill. I'm minded to put in four stealers, probably half stealers so I don't cut into two adjacent planks. These would be quite short not going much further than frame 13 as marked. The only alternative I can see is to narrow the planks at midships and fan them out towards the stern to gain width. I would need to get more material to do this. I've already got one stealer above the garboard ( which I should have thickened) so I would have a total of 5 stealers at the stern. I would really like just to varnish finish otherwise wouldn't be asking. Is five stealers too many? Would it be better to buy sheet and spile them or would that make them look a bit wide compared to the rest? All opinion valued! 😀
  5. This post is intended for anyone who has built, is building, or is contemplating building HMS Victory, whether in kit form or scratch built. Others with an interest in Rigging generally may also like to chime in. I've come across an interesting conundrum regarding the rigging of Victory that other Victory builders may be interested in. I spent several hours poring over documentation to try and work out the use of Yard Tackle Pendants and Brace Block Pendants. I consulted several sources, but my primary reference for any assertions here is Longridge. I also sent a PM to Gil Middleton to seek advice on his approach to this aspect - his reply is posted within Gil's own log (as we had a problem with the PM system), so I won't repeat it verbatim here. First up, as far as I can tell, Yard Tackle Pendants are only used on the lower yards of the Main and Fore Masts. Longridge talks of these in the text descriptions for each of the yards, and this is matched by the drawing of the Running Rigging by Campbell (Plan No. 7 in Longridge). Secondly, I don't believe Pendants were used for Braces except for the Cross Jack Yard. Longridge specifically states (pg 258), in his description of the Cross Jack Yard, that "Here is the only place in the ship where Brace pendants are employed." I also checked over McKay's AOTS book, and as vague as it is, it does seem to match Longridge as well, with the exception that it does not show brace pendants for the Cross Jack Yard. I got terribly confused by all of this as Antscherl (in TFFM) employs brace pendants on all yards, and although he shows the Yard Tackle Pendants, he doesn't say much about them. The Mamoli kit plans, as bad as they are, actually do match Longridge (now there's a turn up for the books!), with the exception of the Cross Jack Yard Brace Pendants, and belaying of the yard tackle pendants. I got further confused when I looked back over Gil's excellent log, where he has employed brace pendants on all of the upper yards. So I asked Gil about his sources and choices. Gil's response was (in essence) that the Jotika plans showed them this way, and that this matches his photographs of the actual ship (see Gil's log for these photos). He opined that Longridge was basing his version on the 1922 restoration and that this may have been different to the more recent restoration to (supposedly) the "Trafalgar" state of the ship. Gil also quite correctly points out that different Captains changed rigs to suit there personal preferences, so unless we can go back and interview Captain Hardy, we might never know for certain. In the meantime, Gil has chosen to stick with the Jotika/Trafalgar restoration version, and I have decided to stick with the Longridge version on the basis that if Longridge is wrong, then I'm happy to be wrong with him. I've also been confused by the belaying of the Fore Lower Yard Tackle Pendants. Longridge, in the text (pg 242), is quite vague saying, "The pendant...is a 7-in rope with its lower end spliced round a 13-in double block which is connected by its 3 1/2-in fall to a 13-in single block which hooks on to an eyebolt in the side of the deck." In the diagram (Plan No.7) "the side of the deck" seems to translate to the Fore Channel, and this matches the drawing in McKay (pg 109), though neither actually show the final belaying point clearly. In checking the text again, Longridge's Belaying Plan (Plan 10, pg 266) and his Table of Belaying Points (pg. 270) both show that it belays to the "7th timber head, side of forecastle". But this raises another question for me - how does the line get to this belaying point without going through the shrouds/ratlines and/or the hammock netting and consequently becoming fouled? It would make more sense to me to belay it on the Fore Channel, outside the shrouds, as seems to be indicated by all of the diagrams. Does anybody have an opinion on this? For interest, general discussion and further opinions as appropriate.
  6. I'm doing this thread on the HMS Victory which is the current project. I've made good progress on construction, but I'm going to put the construction steps here and let it react before posting the next ones. All texts are those of a French forum, simply translated by Google Translate. Excuse me in advance for grammatical mistakes or syntax ... (2016, December) I have the Artesiana Latina kit at 1/84. The skeleton is mounted, I must attack the hull. This boat once mounted must be about 1m25: big bug! But before plunging headlong into curling for a very long time, I do as usual, a pause to think about what I want, what is done, how to tint, mount, etc ... For this, I gather a large library of models, photos of Victory, various docs. In the kit, no plan to scale, but a dvd and prints format A3. It bothers me a little not to "see" it in real size ... Moreover, I saw many Victory perfectly realized ... it does not interest me to remake! These two facts pushed me to wonder about this boat. I looked for a monograph close to the scale, I just ordered the monograph of the Superb at the AAMM (Association of Friends of the Navy Museum): a 74 french guns of the 18th. Conclusion: I will not do the real HMS Victory! But I will use this base to make a three masts of the eighteenth ... I will choose my colors and shades, change the castle, adapt a balcony or 2, perhaps redo bottles, adapt the kit in fact. I am going to make MY model respecting the historical codes, but not a copy of this ship. Of course, I will use the elements of the kit, but I will extrapolate according to my desires. In short, we'll see! Here is the end of sanding couples and keel (a long time to do everything clean), gluing the whole and a first bridge just screwed to maintain properly and check the squareness (2 couples deformed on the top, but nothing irrattrapable). I have a little attacked the sanding to border, but this step will be long, I will be very careful and take my time. It's so important to place strakes next.
  7. Hello! I am seeking help with my second planking having made a few errors on the first which I managed to get away with. It was touch and go trying to avoid crowding at the bow. I'm lining the hull with strakes to work out the best runs this time. I've read and think I understand the tutorials but still have a doubt at the bow section. Between the front tip of the garboard strake and the marking strake is 36mm (along the rabbet) but between the tip and red push pin is only 30mm. Should I fit a drop strake around this point I wonder? I tried wetting and bending a previous marker strake but the pull down on it made the run look a bit wobbly elsewhere back along the hull and it was a really tight bend. I know I will have to fit Steelers at the stern but the bow has confounded me for the moment. The two pen marks fwd show where the centre lines fall. I hope the photos give the idea. TIA.😃
  8. With the current lockdown here in the UK, I have had the opportunity to sort out the workshop and came across a cardboard box, long forgotten. It turned out to contain a part-work kit from the early 2000's of HMS Victory. I remember at the time it boasted of being researched and created by a team of expert naval historians and model makers. My mother-in-law had bought a subscription for me as a Christmas present and I built it up to the 'carcass' stage before a house move and a general feeling of disappointment overtook me! I predominately built in plastic and occasionally metal, so I am still honing my wooden boat building skills. The kit is made from reasonable wood considering it's a magazine style part-work, but the fittings and instructions are interesting... (in the English ironic use of the word!). A lot of the fittings are cast from an antique style metal, which is described as 'highly detailed, authentic and require no painting or varnishing' and the colour scheme shows the 'experts' must have glanced at a lurid coloured postcard of the real thing! Check out the photos below, which show just a few of the details. I am pondering whether to continue with the build or not, as it will require a lot of work and extra expense; maybe just be grateful for all the extra wood to put in my spares box. It has a nice stand though. To be fair, I think they were working with English as a second language...
  9. Hi there, I am a former Merchant Seaman in the UK. I made a plastic model of the Cutty Sark over 35 years ago on my first trip to sea, and about 12 years ago decided I wanted to do another one, a bit more adventurous this time though.. I bought the mamoli 1:90 scale plank on frame model of the HMS Victory.......... I am about 90 hrs into it, I know, that's no time after all those years, let me explain: My son was born 13 years ago and I bought the model on the weekend of his 1st birthday. I set to and put the frames together and started planking the decks, and the first layer of hull planks. all was well, till 9 years ago my daughter came along, and I haven't really done much to it since.. We moved house 5 years ago and when i had got my "boat-shed" set up I told "Er - indoors "I am now gonna be able to get back to building the boat, to which she said " yes, you can, when the bathroom and separate toilet room are knocked into one, the log burner is fitted, the kitchen is extended and the kids bedrooms are done, oh and i also want the loft boarding out...." Well, all done, I am about a month away from finishing the house, just got to build my son a new set of wardrobes for his new bigger bedroom (we dont need the dining room at the front as we have a large kitchen diner at the back of the house now!!! so he is moving downstairs. madam just needs a bit of plastering in her room and bingo.. here are a few pics of my boat so far, many many more to follow. I have recently watched a youtube video of someone building same boat, different kit and I realise with horror that I may have dropped a big clanger. he put his guns on each deck as he went along, I just followed each instruction page step by step. My question is: SHOULD I HAVE READ FURTHER INTO THE INSTRUCTIONS BEFORE FIXING EACH DECK AND PLANKING THEM, HOW DO YOU GET ALL THE GUNS IN PLACE NOW???
  10. I have been building the Heller HMS Victory in 1/100 scale. I am looking for an experienced modeler who can rig it. The model is painted, mounted on a base, and will be completed to the mast installations. I am in the Chicago Area and prefer somebody within 200 miles that I can bring it to. Quick turnaround desired. For this I am offering $1000. This is for a personal display of a customer of mine and I must deliver it by March. If interested in putting some cash in your pockets, contact me at kamartin512@aol.com
  11. Hello, I am considering HMS Victory for my next project. I've decided that before I begin the Victory, I'd like some input from others who've done one. I would appreciate your input and frank appraisal of your kit, the manufacturer, and whether you would use them again if starting over. If not, then which? I would use a kit as a basis but would likely engage in some bashing to enhance authenticity. I would also likely use a good reference like Longridge or one of the many others. Ideas on resources are greedily accepted. Input on wood quality; fitting (wood and metal) quality; plans quality (completeness, readability, accuracy); instruction (readability and accuracy of descriptions, quality of illustrations); accuracy of description of masting and rigging; etc. Any input that you would like to share would be most gratefully acknowledged. Many thanks, Chris Miller
  12. Build underway Hi, you may well have followed the link from my temporarily suspended build http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/11039-hms-bounty-by-bryanc-artesania-latina-scale-148/ and you'll see the Bounty languishing in the background in the photos below. That build will continue shortly, and probably during breaks form this new build of the HMS Victory Bow Cross Section.
  13. I'm getting nearer to finishing my Heller HMS Victory and I am at the stage where I am literally tying up loose ends. I had installed all the running rigging but most of it was left dangling and not made off to anything so I could have flexibility and access to the deck. Now I am belaying the lines going from fore to aft. The foremast looks great and the bow area is now clear of Irish pennants and lose ends.. , But I have come across something I find odd: the Fore Topsail Braces belay to the second skid beam. This strikes me as an odd and awkward and hard to access place to put these frequently used lines. There are many lines of running rigging on a ship, but the Fore Topsail braces are on the short list of lines you will be using all the time. And they are lines which will be under a LOT of strain and which will require a lot of crew to take up on. . John McKay, Longridge and the Heller instructions themselves have them belaying in this odd place (although the kit instructions may indicate the rail at the forward edge of the hatch, the kit has a molded on pin where the others say the lines belay). Lees doesn't specify where they belay in his section on Fore Topsail Yards. . The lines begin on the main stay close to the main mast then run to the blocks on the yardarms. From there they come right back to lead blocks on the stay, close to where they originated. From there they run forward down the stay to another pair of lead blocks on the stay above the belfry, and from there to a lead block on the forward edge of the hatch (or a fairlead in a timberhead there?) then belay to a fore and aft pin which pierces the second skid beam. The references I have that show the pin show it several feet away from the gangways, not within easy reach of someone standing there. . The only way this makes sense to me is if the crew were intended to handle the line from the gundeck below. Which makes me wonder then why it wouldn't belay on a big hefty cleat on the bulwarks there. Why above their heads in a place difficult to access? Why not on one of the timberheads at the forward edge of the hatch? The way it is rigged it zigzags through space quite a bit and I believe it could have been lead nearly anywhere with the resources it is using. So why is it 1/4 of the way inboard on a skid beam, which I believe would be a difficult place for anyone to manage it?
  14. What is the proper way to make the side windows for Hms Victory
  15. Hello A few words on how I use a set of proportional dividers during planking, I hope some of you can find it useful I´m planking HMS Victory and in doing so I´m putting my set of proportional dividers to good use. This tool is not by any meens absolutely nessecary to have if your starting out on your first few kits, but as one gets further in to the hobby one finds that this Little engenious tool has many uses around the ship, one beeing aiding in those precarious tapering jobs during planking. When I first started to look for a set of dividers I noticed that they where not that easy to come by in Sweden and that turned out to be a story in it self. I cant remember how, but I got in contact with a violin builder in germany by the age of 80-something. He apparently also made proportional dividers of different sizes. Now I had little knowledge about theese thingies and what size I needed for my models. This man simply sent me a few samples of his dividers in different sizes stating. - Pay for the one you want and send the rest back !!! So I did just that. You don´t find that kind of confidence and trust in people often theese days, in the years to come I recieved a christmastcard from him every year as probably most of his violincostumers. So what does the dividers do, originaly designed to divide circles in equal parts this tool serves by dividing a sertain distance into equal parts depending on how you set them. I have set the dividers in the Picture to 3 meaning that the smaller pointers will show exactly 1/3 of the distance between the larger ones. Lets get ito it
  16. Hello I bought my CC HMS Victory almost 10 years ago and have only resently gotten around to start building lt, and of course start a log I decided to post my question here though as it´s more of a general question rather than one connected to my build. As I was surfing the web I came across a fellow at another forum which had bought this kit in 2013 and claimed It came with some 90 figurines. Theese were not included in my kit so I was wondering if this is an update to the kit? Does anyone have any information about this? I have also sent a mail to Jotika asking about this, any response will be posted here. Regards Erik
  17. I have attached some photographs of a programme from the 200th Anniversay of the launching of the Victory at Chatham in 1765. Chatham always seems to be neglected when it comes to history, shes was one of the most important yards of her day and the first naval yard to build an iron ship - HMS Achilles mods - I didnt place this in the Exhibitions part of the board as this is more about the programe the exhibition has long gone by over 48 years and I was lucky to attend as a small lad. Norman
  18. i have started to build HMS Victory by DeAgostini. before the forum crashed ive read somewhere that there was a problem with rib no.15. that it was out of shape and not fitting the frame correctly. is this true? as no.15 on my model does come out a bit and i am sure it is not because of my clumsiness... what do i need to do? conntact the manufacturer/packer for replacement? thank you pavol
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