First time rigging - being organized

[RichardG]

I am about to start rigging my first model - an 1815 1/50 scale US Revenue Cutter.

 

This for me is the scariest part so far. I read posts here and they might as well be in Latin (which I did at school 45 years ago and even then wasn't any good). As well getting each line, knot, and fitting right, they also need to be in the correct order.

 

For help I have:

 

This site and the people on it :) :).

A handful of books:

• A Visual Encyclopedia of Nautical Terms Under Sail
  
• Ship Modelling Simplified
  
• Steel's The Art of Rigging 2nd Edition
  
• Petersson's "Rigging Period Fore-and-Aft Craft" (on order)
  

The AL kit plans (which I believe are simplified)

 

 

One of the reasons I originally chose this model all those years ago was the rigging was not too complicated. However "not too complicated" does not mean easy.

 

The only real expertise I have is in software development. Now I can't write a program that will rig the model for me but I'm thinking that I can still get some organizational help.

 

I am planning to write a simple database program for me to keep track of the details and help me stay organized.

 

These are the data I'm planning to store for each line:

• Name
  
• Starting point (including picture(s))
  
• Ending point (including picture(s)) 
  
• Running/Standing
  
• Line size
  
• Fittings (types [blocks, hooks, etc] + sizes)
  
• Notes
  

Once the data is entered I would then be able to move the items around in a list so I can get the right order and keep track of progress.

 

So what does anyone think?

 

Thanks,

Richard

[bcbarnes]

Richard,

 

I'm afraid I'm in a bit of the same position as you, and so won't be much help. However, I am also a Software Engineer (going on 40 years) and so I'll be very interested to see what you come up with. Nothing like this occurred to me.

 

One of the complications (at least from looking at the plans for the HM Yacht Chatham that I am working on as my first build)  is that some of the lines start tied off somewhere, and then mid line they go through a series of blocks/tackle, line sizes change, and then the tackle goes some where while the end of the line goes somewhere else. I'd post a picture but I don't have the plans with me at work.

 

To me, this would imply 'virtual' starting/ending points and possible splits. An interesting problem.

 

Brian.

[trippwj]

An interesting approach to the challenge!  Having only rigged but a single model (and that over a year ago), I can appreciate your question!  I think that, given the vessel you are building, it might make sense to install all of the fixed pieces such as blocks, eye bolts, and so on before attempting the weaving.  Your spreadsheet makes some sense - allows you to look at the rigging diagram, determine where a line goes and its purpose, then de-conflict from other nearby lines.  Knowing the start and end points can aid as well is determining whether some of the terminations need to be done even if the line is not yet routed throughout the various and sundried intermediate points to ensure you have access for that step.  Nothing worse than finding that the only way to reach that eyebolt is to try and fit your tweezers through a web of other lines and work nearly blind to affix and then serve it. 

[druxey]

Before one has rigged a model, the task seems utterly daunting. This is Stage 1, where you are at. Take a deep breath and get yourself centered. 

 

Rigging is essentially a logical exercise. This should, as a software engineer, reassure you. Every line has a purpose and function, even if this is not immediately apparent.

 

Begin with the standing rigging, lower first, working from forward to aft. If in doubt, there is plenty of help available on this forum.

 

We all began our rigging experience at Stage 1 (see above).

[bhermann]

Richard -

 

I like the idea.  I stared a spreadsheet for Bluenose when I was working on the head rigging.  It was more of a historical documentation item at that point than a planning tool, but as I ponder moving forward someday, it would be nice to have everything laid out in a manner that would allow for manipulation of the order, and to mark each line complete as you go through the process. 

 

Bob

[amateur]

Hi Richard,

 

Quite a lot of this is already in the book you have on order (start/endpoint of lines)

The only thinkg Peterson does not go into is the size of the line (ie thickness/diameter) and the corresponding size of the blocks (thicker line means larger block)

 

And I discovered that at small scales suggestion is as good (or even better) than following actual practice: you will presumably not be able to do it exactly as in the real world. (OK, there are some exceptions around on this site).

The same applies to order: standing before running, but apart from that, it's the endresult that counts, and no-one will ever know in which order you knotted the whole thing together. (btw I did this ony twice, and am still not finished with the second one, so I'm not a real expert ) 

 

Jan

[Modeler12]

Your idea of making a data base/list is good. But I would encourage you to think/learn what each of those lines is used for. Petersson's book is great with lots of drawings that show how each element belongs on a ship. But again think of what and why a shroud is where it is and what its function is.

I would right away separate all those 'ropes' by function: Standing vs Running; Keeping the masts in position; hoisting and lowering sails; setting the sails (and spars) in the right direction, etc.

The terminology is new and not easily understood and learned, but it makes things a lot easier if you know the terms and what they mean. When someone here mentions a 'leechline', do you know what it is?

Edited May 4, 2015 by Modeler12

[wq3296]

Greetings Richard,

 

In my opinion, you learn by doing. It seems you already have all the information you need based on the reading, videos, etc. you have absorbed. Plus, you want to make a spread sheet? A revenue cutter is relatively straight forward and a good ship with which to get your feet wet. You will probably take as much time to make a spread sheet as you would to rig the ship, and you won't have gained any skill for the time spent. Just do it, and as other have commented you will become proficient in no time. Don't over think this and don't be afraid to get started. Just do it.

 

wq3296 

[usedtosail]

I use the same approach to rigging (I am also a software developer, too). I make a spreadsheet of the rigging in the order that it is to be done in. This order changes as the rigging progresses, however, as I see what kind of tight spots are being created. One bit of advice I would add is to look at the many practicums that are available, especially those by Chuck Passaro. You can find these on the Model Expo web site for the Phantom and Sultana models, among others. I think he has some on the Syren web site too. The order that he uses is basically the same order I use, but tailored for whatever model I am working on. I usually still spend quite a bit of time filling out the spreadsheet, but it makes the rest of the rigging process so much easier.

[tkay11]

I too am at that stage, and in general have found the combination of Steel, Biddlecombe's 1848 Art of Rigging, Petersson, zu Mondfeld, some rigging tables from the forum's database, a visit to Chatham to look at 18th-19th century cutters, and numerous contributors on this forum to be the most useful.

 

My own decision was not to go for rope (other than for seizing) less than 0.25mm, and then to restrict myself to observable differences. So I've ended up making rope of 0.25, 0.4, 0.5, 0.7 and 1.0 -- apart from the anchor ropes which will be made from one of those.

 

Then I went through Petersson and by using Biddlecombe's tables, listed each rope to the nearest size of my thread in a spreadsheet table (which automatically converts the original circumference sizes in inches to mm at 1/64).

 

I added to my table the blocks that would be connected to the ropes, defining them by the rope sizes, using the spreadsheets I mention below of zu Mondfeld's tables for block sizes. As with the ropes, I've decided on only a few block sizes, going for the smaller option when available. Thus I have 3mm, 4mm and 5mm blocks in single, double and triple sizes.

 

You'll find a very handy set of spreadsheet tables for the sizes by Jim Lad <Period Ship Scale Tables.xls>  as well as Biddlecombe's book in the Ship Modeling Database of this forum.

 

There also used to be two spreadsheets on the old forum (MSW1.0) before the crash called <Rigging rope sizes metric V2.03.xls> by Bev Armstrong (which allows you to specify the period of your ship and the rope diameter steps you prefer) which converts using zu Mondfeld's data, and <Rigging.xls> by Peter Jaquith which is a rigging line and block conversion table allowing you to input the scale of your model to establish the scaled diameter of rope and the ensuing blocks in both mm and inch dimensions. I have both of these latter tables and can send them to you by PM if you'd like.

 

Armed with all this, the advice given above by the others in their replies above sounds great. I've found that as with all the other steps in making a model so far, the best approach is a step at a time, making sure you understand the function and the potential ways of making it as fully as possible, and you'll find that all of a sudden you're looking back at something you thought would be next to impossible before you started.

 

After having been daunted, like you, with the new terminology and complexity of rigging, as well as the different ways in which the same piece of rigging can be described, I've now completed my bowsprit rigging and about to venture to the uncharted territory of masts and yards. This time not with dread, but with interest and excitement at the thought I may actually be able to do it!

 

Best of luck!

 

Tony

Edited May 4, 2015 by tkay11

[popeye2sea]

I agree with Jay (Modeler12).  Spend the time to learn the names and the functions of the different lines.  You will find that the name will often describe the lines location and function.

 

I made a spreadsheet for the rigging plan also for the following reasons:

1.  To get the proper sizes of line

2.  To get the proper sizes and locations of blocks

3.  To itemize how much line and how many blocks I needed to purchase or make.

4.  To organize and order the rigging process

5.  To correct errors in the rigging plan

6.  To translate from the french instructions

 

It will all fall into place.  There is a definite logic to the rigging plan.  When you understand the purpose of the lines, it all just makes sense.  Certain groups of lines do certain things and they all work as a system, often in opposing fashion.  One line will hoist, while the other lowers.  One will hold the mast forward, while the other back.  One will brace a yard in to port, the other to starboard.

 

Regards,

[RichardG]

Thanks everyone for your feedback. 

 

I see this as an organizational and learning tool. Organizational because it will help me keep track and hopefully avoid having to do too much rework. Learning because I will have to work out and enter data, then actually do the rigging.

 

I'm not planning to get 100% of the data done before I start work - I will start with the bowsprit along with any lines from the foremast in that area. Then continue with collecting/entering data in logical sections then rigging that section. 

 

The actual software writing will be the easy bit for me - I'm not going to make it very complicated.

 

I really am looking forward to doing the rigging even though it's a bit daunting at the moment.

 

Brian - splits and 'virtual' points will be interesting - I might need to make some changes at that time or may just end up putting stuff in notes, 

 

Wayne - not only trying to reach an eyebolt but finding I've completely missed putting the eyebolt in!

 

Druxey - the people on this forum are wonderful - I'm sure I will need help.

 

Jay - no I do not know what a leechline is  . Hopefully by the time I've finished all this I will. 

 

wq3296 - I'm trying to balance the over thinking and actual work. I'm not a big fan of analyzing and planning everything up front in my work as a developer. I will be doing the same here - plan a bit, do a bit, rinse and repeat until everything is done. 

 

Tony - I have both of the spreadsheets and did use one of them to work out the rope sizes I ordered from Chuck. I will need to order some smaller blocks though.

 

Henry - I am definitely planning to be a lot more knowledgeable at the end the process. As you and Jay point out, these are not just a set of random ropes. I am glad I don't have item 6 on your list though. 

 

Thanks again.

 

Richard.

[pompey2]

I also spent time planning my rigging (Victory)

I created a list with thread size and colour, belay point etc.

I also read through my manual and reference books, poured over the drawings and made reference notes against each of my lines.

That way when you get to the line in question you can jump to your references.

I often find that I am reading something and find unconnected detail of something I completed already.

Often the new information would have been invaluable at the time and even contradicts what I actually implemented.

 

Nick

[Canute]

Richard, take a look at this topic.

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/9150-readingdecoding-mamoli-rigging-charts/?hl=%2Bmamoli+%2Brigging+%2Bplans

 

Bill is translating Mamoli's Italian instructions for rigging USS Constitution. But it looks like a good sequence. It may be TMI; however, it has some decent pictures.

[RichardG]

Nick - I cannot imagine tackling the rigging of a Victory model! Your build looks really good. Unfortunately I have no sources for the specific rigging on my cutter other than the AL plans. When I look at these, some of the lines don't make sense. As I go through them, I going to have to work out what the line is supposed to do and see if would work (i.e. if I were to pull here does yard or whatever move in the right direction).

 

Don (I hope that's right) - There are no ratlines   . I actually asked the question here http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/7091-no-ratlines-on-revenue-cutter-dallas/, and the consensus was that this was correct.

 

Ken - Thanks for the link. The instructions from AL are less detailed than shown there, but there's a lot less on my build. The tables, such as they are, only show 2 sizes of thread (without specifying standing or running) and 1 size of block. I will therefore be making the rigging more complicated but hopefully more accurate.

 

I have started on the software. Fortunately my computer is right next to my workspace; so I can glue a part, move my chair slightly, then do some code while the glue is drying. I'm also using some new software so I get to learn something for the work I get actually get paid to do.

 

Richard.

[HIPEXEC]

It's daunting. When I rigged my USS Constitution I had no idea how to even start...but somebody told me an old saying..."How do you eat an elephant?"   answer........."Start chewing on the toe!"

[JerseyCity Frankie]

I can see the value and appeal of a spreadsheet. But I am a visual person and thus I always make drawings. I wind up making numerous individual drawings of each spar, than in different color I mark the locations of the blocks on the spar, and over and around these I draw the run of the line I am charting in the sketch. Multiple sketches later, some with the mast drawn in, some in perspective and others in plan view. Multiple drawings. The act of physically drawing the lines on better sets the lines location and function in my mind and I am better able to picture the way they are going to interact on the ship.

I DO first require a spreadsheet of some sort, a printed list of lines or Rigging Schedule that gives me names lengths and diameters, THEN I start sketching.

I am certain I avoid surprise rigging conflicts this way and the drawings allow me to be prepared for challenges I may not have even known I was going to face.

Edited May 13, 2015 by JerseyCity Frankie

[DaveRow]

Hi All,

I am currently building(my first) HMB Endeavour - a Corel Kit(instructions which are how can I say nicely, very basic lacking how to do things). But that is the fun part, learning how to make the parts. I threw all the supplied metal fittings out and scratch building from wood almost everything(not hinges). 

I am only up to hull/deck fit-out, however whilst waiting for the glue to dry on the hull planking, I started to ponder on how many blocks, single, double types, & rope sizes types I would need to rig the thing. 100 hundred 300 hundred, how many more ?(since found out over 700 on the replica)

 

So Richard, I can se where you are coming from, a daunting task.

 

What I came up with, is a spreadsheet based on David Steels "The Elements and Practice of Rigging and Seamanship" 1794.

That is all I could find at the time as a source of rope and block sizes. The kit did not supply this information.

A number of spreadsheet extracts are enclosed.

What it ended up as is a massive workbook of calculations - only part completed.

 

Apart from entering all the block types, sizes, rope circum. and lengths(all in Imperial), it converts the imperial to metric from the scale of the ship(you enter the scale of you model)

It calculates most of the main block types/numbers off, rope diameters/length(m/rolls) nearest size to order etc.

I've only entered the Bowsprit and Fore Mast figures from Steel's, and works out nicely to scale/size.

 

It is work in progress, but it gave me the number of blocks and ropes for ordering.

 

It does not provide the order in which to rig the lines on a boat.

One log I read says to start from the inside and works outwards, so one is not working "into" what has been done.

 

Anyhow, I believe it was a step in the right direction, although somewhat some time before I get to the rigging. 

 

 

Cheers

Dave R

Endeavour Rigging v1_Sample1.pdf

Endeavour Rigging v1_Sample2.pdf

Endeavour Rigging v1_Sample3.pdf

Endeavour Rigging v1_Sample4.pdf

[RichardG]

JerseyCity Frankie - I'm writing software instead of just using a spreadsheet because I need images. Each "item" will be able to have as many pictures I want. I'm assuming I'll be taking pictures from the plans, books, web pages, etc. as well as copious notes.

 

I like the idea of sketching but my drawing skills are non-existent  . 

 

Richard.

[RichardG]

Dave,

 

Thanks for the samples. My ship is smaller and simpler than the Endeavor but still daunting for me. I will also be using Steel's book for reference, I'm assuming American ships would not have been too different; after all the rigging is there for the same purpose. Once I get the software roughly working and some data entered, I'll post some screen shots.

 

So long as the final result doesn't look like this

 

 

 

Richard.

[Izzy Madd]

As an utter nutterand relative newbie my self i found as simplified as it was making the 1/350 model of the Cutty Sark very helpfull as is still demonstrates the way the lines work with each other to ensure that everything is supported at les twice but for good reason. As when you tighten one line its pulls on other so everything slowly became rigid. Also i found it useful to get the line from a-b then mark each line at either end by dipping it in a cheap nail varnish. Obviouslymaling sure that the coloured bit would be cut off. Having two daughters helped always loads of colours around, just dont let them cathch me. But this would also help with the spreadsheet/learning/real life, lines as you would have a colour to look for that then you can give a name to and a solid link between the three, spreadsheet would have names and colours lee fervency material would have the names and the model would have the colours. So for example if you are looking for line A and know it's pink and holds the jib. All the info is tied together and findable at a glance. And yes ther are more than enough couloirs out there. Paints work as well with small band of colour. Like marking birds legs.

 

Just my experience no expertise. Only in making a mess of it.

[RichardG]

That's not too crazy an idea. I have 2 daughters as well but the nail polish gives me a headache. However they do have lots of paint :-)

 

I can easily add a color field to the software.

 

Thanks

Richard.

[Izzy Madd]

That's not too crazy an idea. I have 2 daughters as well but the nail polish gives me a headache. However they do have lots of paint :-)

I can easily add a color field to the software.

Thanks

Richard.

It also means that there is no writing labels so some kind and I only used nail varnish because there are hundreds of bottle around the house. I'm glad to have helped in some small way. As its ok naming a line but once on board which one is which and which end is the one you want to tighten. This way you look at the spreadsheet and see say blue yellow and red stripe then look for that. Also from a spread sheet point of view you could make it so a as say red is standing rigging. And say blue is the main mast. And green is the main mast booms. Or sail clews. That way you can break down each type of line as well so if you've got a red, orange and green stripes you know it standing rigging(red) fore mast(Orange) booms(green). And as dyslexic I'm aware it makes remembering easier. As the mind has a visual link as well as a worded link.

 

One question what format are you going to be using? And will you be willing to sell/share the basic software/settings to other model makers? As this would help a lot of non sailors both learn and make sense of it. You could even start a log of different rigging spreadsheets on here for members to upload/download. Just a thought.

 

I've just been doing the maths and with just seven colours. Red, blue, yellow, green, orange, black and white. You have over 5000 permutations. More than enough for even the biggest ship. And you've still got the option of adding purple, grey, pink etc

Edited June 9, 2015 by Izzy Madd

[Landlubber Mike]

Sounds like you guys are very well prepared on the rigging.  I've only done one ship so far, but one thing I would suggest (echoing the others) is taking a little time to understand the various lines, and then planning out your strategy on the order in which you will tackle the lines.  There are all kinds of strategies, and sometimes, I think there are better approaches than those suggested by the kit instructions.  Here are some thoughts from my experience that I can share:

 

1.  On my Badger, I did all the standing rigging first, then the running rigging, mostly starting from the bowsprit and working my way aft.  I can't tell you how many times I bumped the bowsprit, which caused me to have to go back and repair those lines.  So, I think on my next build I will try to work from the stern to the bow.

 

2.  Another suggestion is to figure out which lines will be belayed to the center of the model, and work from the center outwards.  It really gets hard to get to the center as you start adding lines to the ship.  In particular, I remember adding lines like the backstays much later than the kit instructions suggested.  Frankly, I have no idea how I would have belayed some of the lines if they were on.

 

3.  Make sure that your blocks are securely stropped and that you watch the tension on your lines.  I had some issues where as I put tension on the line, the stropping came off my blocks.  Stropping your blocks the right way from the beginning helps a lot to avoid this issue.  

 

Also, as you start adding tension to a line, it could result in adding too much tension to other lines leading to things popping off.  I don't know the best way to avoid this.  I secured my lines as I went along (and in pairs to the extent you had a particular set of rigging that went both starboard and port), but I know some people run all their lines and then secure most or all of them at the end.

 

Rigging can be very frustrating at times, but overall I thought it was a fun part of the build.  So, try to have fun!  

[Izzy Madd]

Sounds like you guys are very well prepared on the rigging.  I've only done one ship so far, but one thing I would suggest (echoing the others) is taking a little time to understand the various lines, and then planning out your strategy on the order in which you will tackle the lines.  There are all kinds of strategies, and sometimes, I think there are better approaches than those suggested by the kit instructions.  Here are some thoughts from my experience that I can share:

 

1.  On my Badger, I did all the standing rigging first, then the running rigging, mostly starting from the bowsprit and working my way aft.  I can't tell you how many times I bumped the bowsprit, which caused me to have to go back and repair those lines.  So, I think on my next build I will try to work from the stern to the bow.

 

2.  Another suggestion is to figure out which lines will be belayed to the center of the model, and work from the center outwards.  It really gets hard to get to the center as you start adding lines to the ship.  In particular, I remember adding lines like the backstays much later than the kit instructions suggested.  Frankly, I have no idea how I would have belayed some of the lines if they were on.

 

3.  Make sure that your blocks are securely stropped and that you watch the tension on your lines.  I had some issues where as I put tension on the line, the stropping came off my blocks.  Stropping your blocks the right way from the beginning helps a lot to avoid this issue.  

 

Also, as you start adding tension to a line, it could result in adding too much tension to other lines leading to things popping off.  I don't know the best way to avoid this.  I secured my lines as I went along (and in pairs to the extent you had a particular set of rigging that went both starboard and port), but I know some people run all their lines and then secure most or all of them at the end.

 

Rigging can be very frustrating at times, but overall I thought it was a fun part of the build.  So, try to have fun!

 

On my little model as simplified as it was I found front to back for standing and back to front running. As for the tension I fully agree I just left all lines over long hence the colours and went around after they were all on and adjusted the tensions repeatedly. Thank the gods for half hitches easy to tighten and slacken until they are right.

[RichardG]

Thanks Izzy and Mike for your input.

 

I will need to do lots of practice. I've never stropped a block, seized a line, or tied much other than shoelaces.

 

I have Chuck's Servo-matic almost all sanded and ready to assemble. I need to go buy some line to practice with. Make some blocks (to try stuff; I have Chuck's for the real thing). Try a few knots. Finish the software. Start entering the data. Re-read my books a few times. Steal some paint. Decide if I need to make something to put the model on while I rig (so I don't mess my back up changing heights all the time).

 

I think this is going to take a while  :).

 

Still, I'm in no hurry.

 

Richard.

[Izzy Madd]

Thanks Izzy and Mike for your input.

 

I will need to do lots of practice. I've never stropped a block, seized a line, or tied much other than shoelaces.

 

I have Chuck's Servo-matic almost all sanded and ready to assemble. I need to go buy some line to practice with. Make some blocks (to try stuff; I have Chuck's for the real thing). Try a few knots. Finish the software. Start entering the data. Re-read my books a few times. Steal some paint. Decide if I need to make something to put the model on while I rig (so I don't mess my back up changing heights all the time).

 

I think this is going to take a while  :).

 

Still, I'm in no hurry.

 

Richard.

As regards stropping and whipping and a lot of other parts "Ashley's book of knots" spelling may be wrong but it's free if you look around the web. But this is the ultimate bible of knots even now. And contains every knot you'll ever hear of never mind use. Also it's from the 50's so is relive the to the way sailing knot work was done. But I'd suggest getting some cordage about two or three metres. And make the knots splices and whippings full size so you know what your trying to recreate. And same as with the stropping of blocks actually test the strength of the joint as what can seem weak will tighten and vica versa. As well as going overhand as opposed to underhand can make a lot of difference even on scale models. Just whipping an eye loop looks terribly weak but just by wrapping thin cord around a doubled rope four times its width can hold incredibly well. Yes the originals were also stitched through as part of the whipping. But you'll be or I would adding PVA/ water mix to hold it all. I'd also suggest adding a drop or two of liquid soap as this aids the penetration. And I'd mix the two 4 part glue to 1 part water. And it's wired as it makes it dry dull and harder. But almost as strong because it gets into the fibres. Some say use CA for me this is a disaster waiting to happen. As firstly if there's any nylon polyester or such in the lines they will begin to melt and weaken the thread so leading to potential snapping. Secondly the line goes rigid and this causes two problems sooner or later. If the line is not in its final position you've then got a rigid line pointing the wrong way. And a rigid line snaps not bends. Thirdly. Sorry to go on but I've seen some awful rope work on what is a beautiful job all because people want a quick job. Thirdly the thread will wick the CA probably as much as 20mm easy. And this makes the thread change colour compared to the rest and the previous issues. Fourthly if the glue gets on wood or plastic fitting, not sure what you are using. With wood same as the thread it will soak in changing it and plastic melts. Fifthly PVA and water can be dissolved with neat Dettol if you put a line in wrong. IMO. And dries within 20seconds so not much longer than CA. So for what it's worth avoid CA in my opinion.

[Ponto]

Greetings Richard,

 

In my opinion, you learn by doing. It seems you already have all the information you need based on the reading, videos, etc. you have absorbed. Plus, you want to make a spread sheet? A revenue cutter is relatively straight forward and a good ship with which to get your feet wet. You will probably take as much time to make a spread sheet as you would to rig the ship, and you won't have gained any skill for the time spent. Just do it, and as other have commented you will become proficient in no time. Don't over think this and don't be afraid to get started. Just do it.

 

wq3296 

 

I would applaud  the thought and efforts involved with the posters plan, but, and this is the scary part, ... I think I would agree with the comments by "wq....".........time better spent doing rather than recording the event. 

 

JP