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Talos

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  • Birthday 01/20/1987

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  1. From what I've seen, 1st cutter was usually the largest of the cutters. 1st as in best and biggest, in the same way the best bower anchor is the biggest one. It appears like that in the various later boat dimensions listed in Chapelle from the post-war Navy.
  2. Sure, got plenty of stuff on Pawnee. That plan is later in the war when she had a broadside battery. As-built she had four x XI-inch Dahlgren cannons on pivot mounts, two on either side of the ship. She had a very unusual hull as you can see, but one of the most unusual parts is missing from that plan, but I've seen it in others with the original pivots. The keel is actually recessed inwards with a concave hull shape down there. If you have Canney's The Old Steam Navy vol 1, it's in there on page 84. As for pics.... How will these do for now?
  3. Actually, Wasp (and Syren and Argus) were all brigs. Wasp and Hornet were converted to ship-rigs and then of course the follow-on Wasp and Argus-types were all ship-rigged.
  4. Chapelle mentions in that book that ship sloops in the War of 1812 usually carried 4-6 boats and brigs 3-4. He doesn't go into more detail than that, unfortunately. It's halfway down page 504 at the end of the entry on USS President's boats in 1806.
  5. Aww, thanks. Year is still young though! Hopefully we can keep at it. I think threads like this have been good for scholarship of antebellum US Navy ships in general. I know I've learned a lot in it. I was thinking of Constitution's modern stern and that flattened arch on it again. Such a weird shape. Looking through plans in Chapelle, I noticed it popping up in a bunch of proposed smaller ships in the early 1830s, as well as the Boxers and possibly Peacock's rebuild as well.
  6. From Futtock to Top

    On the real ships, there is usually a hole up through the top called a "lubber's hole" that no self-respecting sailor would use. Instead they climb out on shrouds that extend outwards to the edge of the top (yes, with their backs pointing down at the sea), and hoist themselves up.
  7. Yep, that too! I wanted to see how it looked complete, so I threw the fullsize TIFF of the stern drawing into Photoshop. I hadn't notice the arrows the eagle is standing on. Also here is Chapelle's take on Wasp/Hornet as well for comparison.
  8. I'm inclined to agree with you on both parts. With the latter, probably the only reason this survived is Latrobe probably had it in his personal files when he relocated to Pittsburgh before DC was burned, and after that it was kept with the other Architect of the Capital files instead of being sent to the naval archives. The wartime classes were probably a lot plainer, but still decorated. The plans we have for Wasp/Hornet are already more detailed than most, both in hull and spars. Now you add this on top along with Hornet's figurehead and tail-boards...
  9. Glad you like the view! There were 17 states in 1811 since Ohio entered the union in 1803. That didn't last long, as Louisiana became a state in 1812. From the catalog entry: Inscriptions on recto: "Design for the Stern of the Sloop of War Hornet" "History" "Young" "Apollo" " Knowledge" "Cloathes." On the smaller, but zoomed-in scan, you can see the original locations of the stars easier, as well as some penciled in detail on the panel next to the eagle (look at that 3d eagle's head!). http://www.loc.gov/pictures/resource/cph.3a05394/
  10. You'll notice in the drawing of Hornet's stern, there is a pair of columns from the US Capitol Building above it. Dated 1811 and it looks like it was held in the files of the Architect of the Capitol and transferred to the LoC later on. Re: the model, hmm, yeah, Essex is always a possibility. I was thinking the same about the bank too. Another random shot I found, a USN seaplane next to the 74-gun USS Granite State (ex-New Hampshire), along with the steam yacht USS Wasp (a training ship by this point). http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/ggbain/20200/20238v.jpg With USS United States, I'm also reminded of these two http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/2012645377/ https://ussconstitutionmuseum.org/2016/06/14/federal-frigate-early-views-united-states/
  11. I found those on the Library of Congress' website, under "Sloop Hornet". The entry here lists Benjamin Lathrobe as the architect for it. Here is the entry. You can download a higher resolution TIFF there. http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/95860806/ I also found this model frigate held by a Seamen's Bank in New York City. Dunno what she's supposed to be. Too many ports to be HMS Cyane or USS Boston. Could be New York? The half-built-up bulwarks are interesting. EDIT: Here is the link. Could be British of course, but... https://www.loc.gov/item/gsc1994004940/PP/ 5a23235u.tif
  12. It's not one of the frigates that we were talking about earlier, but I ran into this nice drawing of Hornet's stern carvings just now.
  13. Yeah, he did. It's weird. I made this crop of the stern a while ago to illustrate something here and it still fits to repost.
  14. Though not necessarily America, there is the proposed 74-gun ship of 1777, which might help, at least a starting point/inspiration. Good luck, frolick! Stay safe!
  15. I would start with checking the book to see who painted it, title, etc and get in touch with the Maryland Historical Society listed there and see if they can help.
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