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Thistle17

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  1. With the imminent departure of the USS Langley model from the Military History Society museum, where we hold our meetings, a huge display area will be wanting. The director of the Society, a Viet Nam Special Forces veteran, has longed for a model of the first generation of the River Patrol Boats introduced to combat coastal and river combatants some 60 years ago. The scale chosen allows the outfitting of the model with some pretty amazing components. The model will be a waterline model of mixed materials built to as much accuracy as possible given the "plans" available to us and the many on line pictures and videos thus far discovered. These vessels were the first builds for the "brown water Navy" in 1965 by United Boat Builders of Bellingham Washington. This company was well into the construction of a number of fiberglass hull pleasure and work boats at the time and was awarded a contract to build 120 of the Mark 1's. It is believed the hull is a direct takeoff of their 32 foot Sports Sedan as the lines and forward deck area appear to be almost identical. The company was later renamed as Uniflite Corporation and appears to have built a number of the follow on PBR Mark 2's as well as other naval support craft. Almost to a boat these vessels were left in Viet Nam but some did find their way to the US and have become either individual or club restoration projects that are fully operational today! The mission of these vessels was to provide patrol duty to deny Viet Cong and North Vietnamese operations along the coast and inland water ways of the South. These vessels were typically operated by a crew of 4 and patrolled with another PBR. Often the conditions of sea to shore interdiction dictated that helicopter gun ships were called in to assist the PBRs. We have included the following photo and specification of the PBR Mark 1 as reference. As we learn more of these vessels we will provide further background. Craft Stats Featured: MK1 PBR Type: Patrol Boat, River Length: 31 feet Width: 10 feet 7 inches Weight: 8 tons (loaded) Draft: 2.5 feet Speed: 30 mph Range: 574 km (355 miles) Armament: 1 twin M2HB .50 Cal turret (forward) 1 single M2HB .50 Cal (aft) 1-2 M60 .30 Cal (side mounted) 1 40mm MK19 Grenade Launcher (1968 and later) Location: Vietnam Experience Exhibit Source: This patrol boat is on loan from Naval History and Heritage Command.
  2. Back to getting the hull ready for painting. I was at the museum today and experimented with the 3M Golden Edge FILLER. Therein is the operative word. It is no easier to apply than the 3M Platinum Plus Glaze. There is the other key word. It's open time is about 3 to 4 minutes as described in the worksheet. It dries rock hard and can be applied up to 1/4 inch thick. It is tough to hand sand but does give a decent substrate finish for a surface glazing. I had to resort to drywall sanding sheets of 80 grit to bring down the surface as it clogs regular sand paper quickly. As a surface re-enforcement it is quite good for a display model it is overkill in my estimation. We will revert back to the 3M Platinum Plus Glaze prior to finish painting.
  3. Tom: That is very good news indeed. We were quite puzzled when we tried to get the drawings the first time around that it was so difficult. Even when one of our group who is retired ex-Navy in the ship building end of things tried. I am going to relay to him your findings/observations. he is away in sunny Florida right now so it may take a bit of back and forth exchanges. You are kind to offer help. Also the Navy gave us the drawings there was no charge. Joe
  4. Over the years I have acquired a basic set of model making power tools. From way back when, I acquired a Unimat lathe and recently upgraded my saw and thickness sander to Byrnes models. Big boy shop tools have helped fill in the gap for other operations. I have been considering a vertical mill but I sense I am entering a "dark" area as I have little experience with them. The use would of course be for ship modeling but even a deliberate search yields a bewildering array of machines and pricing. I perceive my needs would be for milling brass, aluminum and of course hard woods. Variable speed of sufficient power, of course an appropriate X/Y table, an array of available accessories are the "must haves". The"nice to haves" list at this moment is small but I sense CNC adaptability might be in on that list. Price ceilings I would be around $1000. In searching this site, and of course the web, I did come across some options but what I am looking for is a consensus or member recommendation of what manufacturer or direction to go. So any of you accomplished millers out there can you help me decide?
  5. Just checking back in to give some more feedback on my 5400 DRO milling machine from Sherline. It is all good news and made so by the use of the DRO feature of this machine. I am not a trained machinist but can get by and have for quite a number of years. Now that I have the digital readout capability my work products have improved. This is so evident when parts replication is required. I do find that my blank mounting is somewhat of a challenge and I need to work on that. I think it can be improved with the Sherline's line of tooling plates. I plan to order one shortly. Right now they are on sale. Joe
  6. I have one of these sitting on my shelf to build as I have a fondness for work boats. Your work and product speak to me to get going on it. great job! Joe
  7. INTRO As I open this log I find myself a bit conflicted as to what I could possibly add to curious or future builders of this admiralty model from Model Shipways. The kit was delivered in January of 2015 and as I understand it, this vintage addressed many of the early kit anomalies from the 2013 introduction. I had seen the designer's prototype version and had an opportunity to be mentored by him on his research sources and the construction. As further impetus for the project I used Essex as a research subject for a group presentation. At the outset I thought I had ample sources of reference for it's build, however as I delved deeper the dissonance I discovered over a number of sources almost caused me to rethink a build. The topic and my findings are covered on our web site www.modelshipwrightguildwny.org under Topics Of Interest. I opened this kit recently as I needed a subject for a January 2018 display/demo for the Strong Museum here in Rochester, N.Y. On January 12th and 13th they are engaging families with a pirate theme and one of our members, with publicity in mind, approached them to determine interest. They responded with an invite. I chose this subject for the event as Essex in some ways was a "pirate" in her last days marauding English whalers and merchant men in the southern Pacific before meeting her capture. I plan to display/demo the build from the former on up on my rendition of Ed Tosti's building jig. THE BUILD I will not spend time in reviewing the kit contents as others have done a very good job on that score but I will comment on certain aspects of the kit as I journey down this build.
  8. Thistle17

    Latest pieces off my drawing board

    Beautiful works michealpsutton2! An artform I have always wanted to try but I fear my minds eye and hand would not nearly achieve your artful hand ever! Joe
  9. Thanks GrandpaPhil I knew someone had an answer out there. I did try once more at the Kindig It web site and this time they have an auto response of who to reach for subject specifics. That wasn't an access for me before. I am off and running to see if that will fit the bill! Thank you very much. And here is the PDF for usage. One can use it on wood and it has a reasonable open time before it starts to setup. http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/649535O/3m-golden-extra-filler-01127-01177-01277-01317.pdf Joe
  10. Mark I have contacted them twice through there web site Kindig It Design but have yet to hear from them. In looking more completely on line my use of the term "conformal coating" may have been inappropriate. That comes from my days working with electronic circuit boards which were coated to reduce the effects of environmental conditions. That product material was never meant to be sanded once applied and if the board was repaired it had to be patch coated again. If I do not hear from them in the next 2 weeks we will revert to the hobby mesh fiber cloth and we will glass it. I just hate working with it because of VOCs. Joe
  11. Many thanks Mark I will give thatprogram credits a try. Joe
  12. And all this time I have been thinking I am inept! I find comfort in the responses and of course guidance. On Cheerful there is to be a 1/64 rebate around all gun ports. What I have been doing, before all these very good ideas, was taking my Lee Valley miniature chisel (the 1/8 one) and honing it to near scalpel sharpness. This works most effectively on the vertical rebates before I go any further. Then I gently carve away, bevel side up, the plank ends to the proper relief. For the sills and lintels I do use the chisel, bevel side down to clean up the corners. A very, very sharp chisel will cut the end grain very cleanly (best results can be had with boxwood). Joe
  13. We are nearing the point where we have to decide on the conformal coating for the hull. It is taking a good deal more attention to fair the hull than we expected. We are still betwixt and between glassing the hull and using some other conformal coating such as they use on "Bitchin Rides" on the Motor Trend Channel for cars. I have sent them an e-mail but they have not responded. The material appears to have a reasonable open time, is yellow in color, and can be leveled with what appears to be large screed boards. It is not Nitro Stan nor is it any of the 2 part levelers that are termed "Easy Sand". These cannot be used over large ares as they set up way too fast. The glassing approach we would fall back on is likely to be the modelers fine mesh cloth with the attendant 2 part gel/hardener. Does any body know the product i.e. the yellow compound used in auto body fairing? I get blank stares at the auto body supply houses. Joe
  14. You are gifted Doris there is no question! With that gift you create masterpieces. I do hope you have heirs (s) for the preservation and longevity of your treasures. Joe
  15. Ship board damage control now finds the bulkheads sanded fair at the keel rabbet and the rabbet strip and keel have been replaced. Time to move on, by attending to the transom frames. These are very delicate members and have to be added somewhat "in the air" as they are attached, one by one to the former sides w/o much structural support. I will describe what I did but in hindsight I will also suggest an assembly method that might be a bit easier. The pictures in Chapter 3 related to transom member assembly aren't too clear but they suffice. Once again I was on a roll with the bulkhead supports I had used for most of the other bulkheads and placed them (the vertical ones) on the aft end of #22. They should have gone on the inside of that bulkhead. This is going to give me a bit of the problem when I have to add the fillers where the stern terminates. However they did give a nice landing area for the inside stern frames that were to be added. I then added the 2 inner most stern members per directions (separated by 1/8 inch spacers along the former) to yield a 7/16" spacing. I liked the support they gave enough to add horizontal members port and starboard to support the remaining stern members. These are separated by 7/16" spacers per directions. All spacers and frame members are glued one to the other across the stern. These frames should be flush with the top of bulkhead #22. I am left with the problem of still having to shape the stern with fillers as one does the bow. This I perceive will be a bit cumbersome. In hindsight I should have re-enforced the bulkhead from the inside as I said and executed the following: On the aft side I would have placed a 3/8" X 1/2" strip across the bulkhead port and starboard side of the bulkhead and then filled in the balance of the stern area with balsa filler. Also for the more fastidious modeler I would be tempted to extend the horizontal legs of each transom frame member such that they can extend forward of #22 bulkhead (slotting this bulkhead to accept the thicker base leg of the frames) and placing those 3/8" X 1/2" horizontal strips on bth sides of the bulkhead (i.e. forward and aft). Joe
  16. Jim I did not use the de-bonder as the keel was free about 2/3 of the way to the stern and there was tape wrapping the keel. It just snapped. I will use yellow glue and continue attaching it with the little blocks in the picture. By the way those blocks really make the bulkheads quite rigid. Joe
  17. This is a good news, bad news accounting. The Strong museum demo/display was this past weekend. I used Essex for my demonstration for how a kit might begin and managed to assemble about 16 of the bulkheads before the end of the 2 day session. Today I installed the bulkheads 17 through 20. At this point one has to decide if the "strong back" stiffeners are to be added as they pass through bulkheads 3 through 20. They then are glued to the "strong back" and hopefully some of the bulkheads. It turns out this is a annoying task.. I say that because of slight irregularities in the slot of each bulkhead. Theoretically they all should line up and the stiffener just slides through, in this case from the stern, one to a side. If one uses the top of the strong back as the datum slight irregularities occur in the alignment of the slot from bulkhead to bulkhead. As it turned out I had to remove about 40 thousands from the stiffeners. and chamfer the edges to avoid any glue obstructions that may have occurred when the bulkheads were glued in place. Stupidly I used CA to attempt to fasten the stiffeners to the strong back. I used the very thin CA and sure enough some trickled down onto my assembly jig gluing the keel to it!!!!! It took a bit of doing but I was able to extract the hull from the jig but in so doing the keel and most of the rabbet strip stayed behind. After a few moments of self chastisement I discovered it was somewhat of a blessing in disguise. I will have to make a new keel. When using the top of the strong back as a datum and with each bulkhead set flush with it I observed that about 7 of the bulkheads protruded into the rabbet area. At this point I realized it was going to be a lot easier to sand the bulkheads at this point so there was no rabbet overlap prior to the keel repair! That's my good news. Sort of! Joe Note bulhead protrusion at rule 15 3/4 and 16 1/4.
  18. Where does this passion and drive come from? It seems every time I check in you have taken another leap forward with great results. Simply amazing! Joe
  19. Thistle17

    Hannah by Bobby B

    Excellent work BobbyB. It is refreshing to see someone building the Hahn way and fully framed. In regard to the plans are they the Tubman???? And what scale is that? Joe
  20. Thanks Mark and David we aren't going to give up on promoting this incredible art. modeling or past time whatever it is seen as. My thoughts have been flavored by what I see around us. For example, I happened to be watching 60 Minutes on CBS last night and my dread was re-enforced by the segment of how AI is infiltrating our lives at nearly "light speed". It was related that in the next 20 or so years, 40% of all jobs could be eliminated in the world by AI technology. In comparison, I recall in 1971 Intel introduced the 4bit microprocessor and look where we are some 45+ years later! While we have folded in 3D printing, CNC and Laser machining into our works no telling what the next 20 years will bring even to this practice. Joe
  21. We are pleased to announce the formation of a new group in Rochester NY, the Model Shipwright Guild of Western NY. We meet monthly at the Military History Society of Rochester NY Museum. Our membership shares a common interest in research, model ship building techniques and construction of historic ship models of all periods and types. Presently some members are researching the possibility of constructing a model of an Army/Navy Coastal Tanker built here at the Odenbach Ship Yards during WWII. Sixty or more were built at this site while others were built in Florida and Louisiana. Some of these tankers were still in use in the Korean War. Oddly accurate ship lines are hard to obtain as the family has not been able to produce them for us and just recently the plant was torn down.. We meet at an incredible venue, the museum, thanks to the generosity of the executive director, Charles Baylis. Military artifacts date from the Revolutionary War into Twentieth Century campaigns. Several US Navy vessels are on display. They include the USS Langley, the first aircraft carrier, and the "under construction USS Rochester, a WWI Cruiser by members of our group. For more information about the museum visit www.rochestermilitary societty.com. New members are welcome. Presently we meet the 2nd Saturday of the month. Contact jlorenzo2@rochester.rr.com for more information.
  22. Thanks for checking in Eric. I do know programming as I was involved in multi processer, real time, machine control for machines. Its just that with modern technology, the old arts/interests take a back seat. We are planning at least one more outreach maybe this fall. So keep us in mind. And snow is headed our way by Friday reportedly in the form of a storm. We will see. Joe
  23. The demo and display at the Strong Museum was completed today. From the security folk nearly 8 thousand people visited for general and special events. We were given great placement for our display and signage that could not be missed as it was in the main lobby area. We all agree our hosts were magnificent in both accommodation and welcome. The Strong Museum is a class act to be sure. We had many visitors stop by and admire the member display. The museum is structured to entertain and celebrate the all important aspect of play for children. I would hazard a guess that it is geared primarily to those below 10 years of age. So it wasn't surprising that the parents were the ones who were the most interested in our works. That was re enforced on Saturday when I wandered into a class room of older children and parents. When I inquired what the class about, I was told it was a 4 week class on how to program video games. What ever happened to the days of model building for young folk? It is doubtful given the parents age and the children's age that we will attract any new members.We did however get our name out there. We all live and learn. Joe
  24. We are only able to muster 2 to 4 hours a week on this build so indeed progress has been less than impressive. Today was somewhat of a milestone however. The "skin" is complete and the sheer line fairing has been made. We are now concentrating on some smoothing and fairing of the hull prior to fiberglass treatment. This seems a most prudent step as one can see the application of Nitro Stan glazing and 3M filler has been required to modify flagrant imperfections. The starboard side is clear evidence of that. Again the use of the 3 inch basswood sheets was thought to be a time saver but it turns out strip planking would have yielded better results. What can't be seen is the inside of the hull. There are many wood braces spanning laterally laid sheets at their junction to stiffen the skin. Luckily this will be hidden once we skin the inner hull. The backdrop is the 1:6 scale Maryland Silver drawings. The photo is from the good folks at Patriots Point South Carolina. Joe
  25. Just a reminder The Model Shipwrights of Western NY (note the name change, we dropped the Guild, our web site remains the same as before) will be at the Strong Museum in Rochester NY this weekend (January 12th and 13th). Five members will be actively working on modeling or modeling techniques. Rigging, sail making, hull construction and general hull detailing will be demonstrated. We are giving away a brand new model kit in a drawing in the hopes of signing up new members.

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