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I am constructing a scratch-built venetian carrack of 1445

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/4915-venetian-carrack-or-nave-tonda-by-woodrat/

and I can find no evidence that ships bells were in use in this period. My feeling is that they were. Certainly the Grace dieu had a bell. Does anyone have any proof that mediaeval ships had bells?

Cheers

Dick

Edited by woodrat

Current build: 

 Le Gros Ventre 1:48 POF   http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/564-le-gros-ventre-by-woodrat-scale-1-48-pof-1767-french-exploration-vessel/

 

Past builds:

Mycenaean War Galley by Woodrat - 1:48 - Shell first Plank on Frame:https://modelshipworld.com/topic/33384-mycenaean-war-galley-by-woodrat-148-shell-first-plank-on-frame

Venetian round ship 14th century by Woodrat fully framed - 1:40 scalCompleted

https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/17991-venetian-round-ship-14th-century-by-woodrat-fully-framed-140-scale

Venetian Carrack or Cocha 1/64 by woodrat   https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4915-venetian-carrack-or-cocha-164-by-woodrat        completed

United States Frigate Essex 1:64 POF   http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4496-usf-essex-by-woodrat-scale-1-64-fully-framed-from-takakjian-plans/ - completed 

Yenikapi12 by Woodrat - 1/16 scale - a small Byzantine merchant vessel of the 9th century

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/23815-yenikapi12-by-woodrat-116-scale-a-small-byzantine-merchant-vessel-of-the-9th-century-finished/

The Incredible Hulc by Woodrat - an experimental reconstruction of a mediaeval transport

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25641-the-elusive-hulc-by-woodrat-finished-a-speculative-reconstruction-of-a-mediaeval-merchantman-132-plank-on-frame/

 

 

 

Location: Perth, Western Australia

 

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More to the point, was Venice using bells! Let me do some digging around in some of the archeological records.

Wayne

Neither should a ship rely on one small anchor, nor should life rest on a single hope.
Epictetus

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The duyfken and other dutch ships of the early 17th century weren't using bells.

Anton T

 

Current build

1/78 Sovereign of the Seas - Sergal - kit bashed

1/72 Arleigh Burke class DDG flight iia/iii - Sratch built RC - no log

 

Waiting for further inspiration

STS Leeuwin II 1/56 scratch built (90% completed)

 

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1/72 HMAS Brisbane, Airwarfare Destroyer 2014 -Scratch built RC - completed

1/64 HMS Diana 1796 - caldercraft kit - completed

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1/96 HMAS Newcastle FFG 2011- scratch built RC - completed

1/75 Vasa - Billing Boats - completed

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  • 3 weeks later...

On reflection and having reviewed my books, I think that there is no evidence for routine or common usage of bells in mediaeval ships. Most large ships had trumpeters as seen in contemporary illustrations. Zorzi da Modone whose illustration I am using for my model was also called Trombetta (trumpeter). Presumably, the ships trumpeter could be used for signalling much as would a bell.

Dick

Edited by woodrat

Current build: 

 Le Gros Ventre 1:48 POF   http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/564-le-gros-ventre-by-woodrat-scale-1-48-pof-1767-french-exploration-vessel/

 

Past builds:

Mycenaean War Galley by Woodrat - 1:48 - Shell first Plank on Frame:https://modelshipworld.com/topic/33384-mycenaean-war-galley-by-woodrat-148-shell-first-plank-on-frame

Venetian round ship 14th century by Woodrat fully framed - 1:40 scalCompleted

https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/17991-venetian-round-ship-14th-century-by-woodrat-fully-framed-140-scale

Venetian Carrack or Cocha 1/64 by woodrat   https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4915-venetian-carrack-or-cocha-164-by-woodrat        completed

United States Frigate Essex 1:64 POF   http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4496-usf-essex-by-woodrat-scale-1-64-fully-framed-from-takakjian-plans/ - completed 

Yenikapi12 by Woodrat - 1/16 scale - a small Byzantine merchant vessel of the 9th century

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/23815-yenikapi12-by-woodrat-116-scale-a-small-byzantine-merchant-vessel-of-the-9th-century-finished/

The Incredible Hulc by Woodrat - an experimental reconstruction of a mediaeval transport

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25641-the-elusive-hulc-by-woodrat-finished-a-speculative-reconstruction-of-a-mediaeval-merchantman-132-plank-on-frame/

 

 

 

Location: Perth, Western Australia

 

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I am constructing a scratch-built venetian carrack of 1445

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/4915-venetian-carrack-or-nave-tonda-by-woodrat/

and I can find no evidence that ships bells were in use in this period. My feeling is that they were. Certainly the Grace dieu had a bell. Does anyone have any proof that mediaeval ships had bells?

Cheers

Dick

Not proof but an opinion. Bells, except for an emergency such as fire are used to manage the watches, 8 bells for an 4 hour Watch and 8 bells also covers 2 Dog Watches. It is word of mouth, a pipe or bugle that directs the crew. The early ships probably had not set up a watch system and didn't need a way to manage them. Short cruises being the norm, probably all hands were on duty at all times, managing what they were doing was important, not keeping time with a bell and half hour glass. High frequency bells used aboard ships make poor fog warnings, horns or drums carry better because of their low frequency. Suspect bells came into use when long periods at sea requiring part of the crew to rest and that made 4 hour Watches the norm.

jud

Edited by shiloh
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Thanks Jud and Crackers.

I would still love to know more. This would be a great Ph.D thesis for some aspiring nautical archaeologist :)

Dick

Current build: 

 Le Gros Ventre 1:48 POF   http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/564-le-gros-ventre-by-woodrat-scale-1-48-pof-1767-french-exploration-vessel/

 

Past builds:

Mycenaean War Galley by Woodrat - 1:48 - Shell first Plank on Frame:https://modelshipworld.com/topic/33384-mycenaean-war-galley-by-woodrat-148-shell-first-plank-on-frame

Venetian round ship 14th century by Woodrat fully framed - 1:40 scalCompleted

https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/17991-venetian-round-ship-14th-century-by-woodrat-fully-framed-140-scale

Venetian Carrack or Cocha 1/64 by woodrat   https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4915-venetian-carrack-or-cocha-164-by-woodrat        completed

United States Frigate Essex 1:64 POF   http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4496-usf-essex-by-woodrat-scale-1-64-fully-framed-from-takakjian-plans/ - completed 

Yenikapi12 by Woodrat - 1/16 scale - a small Byzantine merchant vessel of the 9th century

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/23815-yenikapi12-by-woodrat-116-scale-a-small-byzantine-merchant-vessel-of-the-9th-century-finished/

The Incredible Hulc by Woodrat - an experimental reconstruction of a mediaeval transport

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25641-the-elusive-hulc-by-woodrat-finished-a-speculative-reconstruction-of-a-mediaeval-merchantman-132-plank-on-frame/

 

 

 

Location: Perth, Western Australia

 

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This might get someone started... a quick Google on "ship's bell history" (without the quotes) and here's two starting points:

 

http://www.history.navy.mil/research/library/online-reading-room/title-list-alphabetically/b/bells-on-ships.html

http://www.britannica.com/technology/ships-bell

 

Earliest referenced use is the 1600's...... Lots of links and lots of detailed information including wrecks available.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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