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Julie,  I used both AutoCAD and SolidWorks at work.  I now use AutoCAD only to develop bulkheads and keel for scratch building.  I thought it would be useful to develop a hull in SolidWorks so I could add angled planes to get cant frames and such.  But decided that drawing the 3D ship was more trouble than it was worth for so little return.

 

Bob

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Yambo,

 

Do you have an XP license left? If so, get a second hand PC/Laptop on which you can run XP - maybe add some more memory - install your AutoCAD, and you are good to go ...

If you purchased AutoCAD Lt you can probably go back to mfg. and ask for upgraded 32/64bit install program

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Not really related, but I wanted to be a draftsman out of high school and went to college for 3 years to learn mechanical drafting. After graduation I got a job with a manufacturing company. They just got Autocad, probably version 1. It also came with a Flight Simulator program. At that time, I had never used a computer based drafting program but was very familiar with computers (home computers were just starting to become popular). So I taught the chief draftsman how to use Autocad then stayed late every night so I could try out the flight simulator (I also did a lot of flying with my best friend who is now an airline captain).  Turns out I spent more time on the flight simulator than I did on Autocad.  I haven't drafted in years as my profession changed early in my career.

 

FYI, Flight Simulator was invented by Bruce Artwick who eventually licensed it to Microsoft.  I've owned every version since its inception.

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To run AutoCAD (mine is 2002) on Windows 7, or 8, or 10, you need the Pro version. It will not run on the any of the Home versions. I have run it on my Windows 10 Pro 64, with no problems.

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Just to add more confusion, I recomend the 2016 version of DesignCAD 3D. It runs $70 to $100. There are several sites that offer a $30 discount to the $100 list price.

 

I've used various versions for over a decade, and have been satisfied with it.

 

The 2016 version can input and output files in the SketchUp format. This is a great feature, as only the Pro versions of SketchUp can import AutoCad file formats. Now I can go directly to SketchUp.

 

Don't discount the usefullness of 3D capability. I generaly take my 2D drawings and use the 3D to "build" the model and check that everything lines up. This really comes into it's own when trying to draw from distorted, or partial plans.

 

I have a tutorial on going from 2D to 3D drawings on the forum.  That tutorial is going from 2D DesignCAD to 3D sketchup, should you want to make parts for your models.

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Found an old DVD (2012) with TurboCad Deluxe 2D/3D,

installed it on the laptop using the key license, opened up the program.

Got a question about upgrade clicked yes, now running the Version 19. At no extra cost.

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Ron, when I was working on a 3D AutoCAD build on the electrical installation for a data center, we had 32 bit computers that continually crashed.  I leaned very hard on my boss to get me and my assistant more powerful computers, so the company bought two computers the IT guy said cost $5K each.  The crashes were dramatically reduced but they still happened. 

 

I coordinated with the mechanical contractor at least once a day on that job and told him we had some success reducing crashes.  He and his assistant were experiencing the same thing.  They ended up buying 64 bit machines and crashes became a thing of the past for them.  FWIW, we were both using AutoCAD MEP 2008 but they had to buy the 64 bit version with the new machines.

 

I recently bought a 3D home design program but wasn't happy with how it hung up once I had created most of the interior of our house.  I contacted the company that created the program and they said it was designed to run on a 64 bit machine.  I never upgraded to 64 bit because my AutoCAD program is 32 bit only.      

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On 08/02/2017 at 4:54 PM, Julie Mo said:

Ron, when I was working on a 3D AutoCAD build on the electrical installation for a data center, we had 32 bit computers that continually crashed.  I leaned very hard on my boss to get me and my assistant more powerful computers, so the company bought two computers the IT guy said cost $5K each.  The crashes were dramatically reduced but they still happened. 

 

I coordinated with the mechanical contractor at least once a day on that job and told him we had some success reducing crashes.  He and his assistant were experiencing the same thing.  They ended up buying 64 bit machines and crashes became a thing of the past for them.  FWIW, we were both using AutoCAD MEP 2008 but they had to buy the 64 bit version with the new machines.

 

I recently bought a 3D home design program but wasn't happy with how it hung up once I had created most of the interior of our house.  I contacted the company that created the program and they said it was designed to run on a 64 bit machine.  I never upgraded to 64 bit because my AutoCAD program is 32 bit only.      

You can run a 32bit program on a 64bit machine. It just doesn't use the available resources optimal. You should run a mixed system on a 64bit machine. That way you can use your old, and newer programs. You should take into account that even a lot of so called 64bit programs do not use the possiilities of the machine to the max. Furthermore, if you have a multi core procesor, your memory should be large enough too. Often a mere 8gb is used but that is minimal for a 64bit system. Check what your motherbord and cpu combination can handle.

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I have installed DraftSight after readding this thead. But I cannot launch it. :(

I have tried some solutions but without success. So. I want to ask if anybody has a solution what works. ;)

 

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tabycz

I presume you are running a windows box. Go to Administrative tools|Event viewer

Select Windows Logs|Application

the Column Source is the program. Check if iDraftSight shows up, you can find the problem at Level = Error

 

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FYI, Shapeways, the 3D printing company, shared an email today that lists five popular (and free) 3D drafting programs that you can use to create models suitable for 3D printing.

 

They are:

TinkerCAD

Sketchup (good for creating deck furniture, rigging components, etc. Frames and planking are more difficult)

Sculptris (a free version of Zbrush)

3D Slash (not recommended for ship modeling; too blocky)

Ultimaker's Cura (checks models before 3D printing)

 

And there are always Blender and DELFTship. These are also free, but their learning curves are pretty steep.

 

Terry

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Just a helpful tip to get SolidWorks, if you join the EAA (the Experimental Aircraft Association) for their annual membership fee of $20, you can get a free license of SolidWorks student edition.  This is the cheapest way to get a copy other than pirating. 

Edited by rtwpsom2

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Maybe it's time to renew my EAA membership. SolidWork is part of the French Dassault Systemes.

EAA annual membership is 40 dollars according to their website.

 

Edited by Nirvana

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Hi,

 

I'm a newbie to this forum, but not to CAD or CAD ship modeling.

 

I have been using DesignCAD 3D MAX since 1988 in my work, and also for ship modeling. The program has three significant advantages over every other CAD program (about a dozen) that I have used. First, it is cheap - about $100 US. Second, it has the best and most versatile user interface of any program I have ever seen - five ways to execute commands, including a macro language, so you can work in the way most comfortable for you. And best of all, it has free technical support and a very active user forum (http://forum.designcadcommunity.com/).

 

I have been working on a CAD model of the USS Oklahoma City CLG-5 in the summer 1971 configuration for fourteen years. It is just about complete. Most of the 14 years was spent researching blueprints, drawings, data sheets, etc., and collecting over 1000 photos of the ship. You can see images of this model here: https://www.okieboat.com/CAD model.html

 

The entire model was done in DesignCAD, so if you want to see the capabilities of the program for ship modeling have a look at my web site.

 

If you are new to CAD I cannot overstate the importance of an active users forum for the program. Many very experienced users from all over the planet follow the DesignCAD forum and are happy to answer questions from new users. DC tech support also watches the forum and answers questions.

 

As others have said, learning CAD programs can be difficult for the first time user. You not only have to learn how to get the program to do what you want to do, but you also have to learn to think in a virtual reality. Forget any limits you have learned with 2D drawing on paper - the sheet is infinite. And if you work in 3D you have to learn to think in 3D - you are creating a new virtual world. It will take some time to become comfortable with this process. It is best to model in 1:1 scale - the actual dimensions of the ship. That way you can use the dimensions on blueprints directly without calculations and possible scaling errors. Later you can scale the drawing to any smaller scale.

 

You can create 2D drawings from the 3D model, or you can produce 3D stereolith files (3D printing), or use your model to drive CNC machines (this is tricky). But the best thing about CAD modeling is that you can (and will) make mistakes, and later go back and fix them without wasting any materials.

 

Phil

 

ship stbd bow 1024 C.jpg

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Breathtaking.  The level of detail is amazing.  Congratulations on your work.

 

It seem to me you must have a very large file for this project.  Can you give us an insight into how large?  What are your render times for the complete model?  And, just because of curiosity, what is your computer set up?  I would guess you have a pretty good bit of horsepower.

 

Thanks so much for sharing.

 

Wayne

Edited by wrkempson

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Wayne,

 

Right now the model is in four files. I pasted renderings of the four files into one image in Photoshop. I have yet to combine all four - in fact I may not be able to in DesignCAD 3D Max. The largest file I have worked with was about 750 megabytes, but that was several versions back. I do not know if the new version can handle a gigabyte file, although it is 64 bit and should be able to handle it. I will take on that challenge this winter when I can't get out hiking.

 

The four files add up to 1.071 gigabytes. There are a few duplicated reference parts in each file, but after they are removed the total file size will still be about a gigabyte. There are 2.86 million DesignCAD "entities" in the files, but I really don't know what that means in terms of objects drawn in the files. A single object like a cylinder may be composed of many "entities." But I do know that there are a LOT of objects in the files! There are 22 million points in the files.

 

Hull: 220,258 KB

Forward superstructure: 312,148 KB

Midships superstructure: 234,964 KB

Aft superstructure: 303,890 KB

 

Initial render times for each of the four files varies from about 40 minutes to 95 minutes (all surface normals and shadows are calculated during the first rendering). After that new renderings take up to two minutes. Render times are not linear with file size, because the program has to check for shadows on each object that might be cast be all other objects. I expect the initial render time for a gigabyte file will be 4-5 hours. I'll start it before going to bed and it will be ready for subsequent renders the next morning.

 

Note: After the initial render and when working in OpenGL display modes, rendered displays rotate quickly. However, if the file size is several hundred megabytes and all layers are enabled (everything visible), display rotations get a bit "jerky" - slow.

 

****

 

My work station was built in 2013 and is five years old now. It was designed specifically for 3D CAD work:

Windows 7 Professional 64 bit

Intel i7-3930K 64 bit processor, 3.2 GHz, six cores, 12 processes (DesignCAD can use 11 processes, Windows typically uses 1)

Intel DX79SR motherboard, 64 bit data bus

Liquid cooler for the processor *

Chassis has 10 fans to keep everything cool

32 Gbytes 64 bit DDR3-16 RAM - Corsair CMZ16GX3MAXx1600C **

Nvidia Quadro 2000 video card. 192 Graphic cores, 1 Gbyte DDR5 RAM. Drivers optimized for hardware support for OpenGL. ***

Dual Display Port monitors, 27" and 24"

Four hard drives: C 1TB, D 1 TB, E 1TB, F 3 TB. Drive D  is used for the CAD model. ****

I use a Kensington Expert Mouse trackball.

 

* The Intel i5s and i7s have built in over temperature protection. This is provided by an extra CPU embedded in the chip that just monitors the hardware. If any core exceeds 65C the processor clock will be stopped until it cools below 65C, and then restarted. If this doesn't work the CPU voltage is reduced (this may cause instruction execution errors), and if that doesn't work the CPU shuts down. System performance plummets when the CPU clock is interrupted like this. If you want to run full speed under all circumstances (without processor clock interruption) you have to get rid of the heat in the processor. Air cooled heat sinks are only marginally effective. The liquid cooler has worked so far, and the machine runs without clock interruption even in the most demanding operations that run all six cores at 100% duty cycle for long periods. I can tell when the thing starts to heat up. The ten fans normally run with only a slight hum. But when I start working with large numbers of objects in DesignCAD, or rendering large files, or working with very large images in Photoshop, I notice the fans speeding up. If the room temperature is high (>85F) the fans can rev up so it sounds like the thing will lift off!

 

Laptops do not have sufficient cooling, so i5s and i7s often operate with interrupted clocks. You may have a "3 GHz" CPU, but it may operate at a much lower effective clock speed if it is doing serious work. But at least it won't fry itself as some other processors were prone to do.

 

The Intel motherboard came with a hardware monitor program. It allows monitoring temperatures, voltages, fan speeds, etc. My system normally runs with a CPU temperature of 32C with a room temperature around 25C (77F). I have never seen it go over about 42C.

 

The i7 K series CPUs were designed for overclocking, and I have read of i7-3930s that are clocked at 4 GHz. I have not overclocked this CPU. It gets hot enough without overclocking!

 

** The fast RAM is the key. In 2013 this Corsair RAM was the only thing on the market that would actually run with a bus speed of 1.6 GHz at a bus voltage of 1.5 Volts (the i7 nominal bus voltage). Most other RAM makers claimed 1.6 GHz speed, but the RAM had to be run at greater than 1.5 Volts. Go over 1.6 volts and the CPU is fried, as has been discovered by many unfortunate people who did not do their homework.

 

I enabled the XMP memory feature in the motherboard BIOS. This allows the CPU and RAM to work at the fastest possible speed (1.6 GHz) at 1.5 Volts. Without XMP enabled the RAM would have worked at 1.33 GHz. However, with other manufacturer's RAM and XMP enabled the memory bus voltage might be raised above 1.6 Volts and fry the CPU. You need to do your homework on this one! If in doubt, don't enable XMP!

 

The RAM is quad interleaved on the Intel mother board to wring out the fastest performance.

 

*** I work mostly in OpenGL in DesignCAD. The Nvidia drivers enable video card hardware execution of OpenGL operations. This is MUCH faster that total software execution of OpenGL code. Most other manufacturer's video drivers do not support hardware acceleration for OpenGL, it they support OpenGL at all. They are optimized for video games that don't use OpenGL.

 

**** Hard drive seek operations are the slowest operations in the computer. Placing data files on a drive different from the drive where the operating system and program are located allows faster operation. Both Windows and DesignCAD use virtual memory paging to swap out code and data between RAM and the hard drives. With Windows and DesignCAD on Drive C and DesignCAD data files on Drive D, the code swapping seek operations on C can proceed while data seeks are in progress on Drive D.

 

Phil

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