capnharv2 Posted March 17, 2013 Share #1 Posted March 17, 2013 I haven't plated very many ship models (1 so far), but I've looked thru several books on the subject, and now I have some questions. Most of the older ship model books I've looked at (Ship Modeler's Shop Notes Vol 1, Longridge Anatomy of Nelson's Ships, etc) show planking in several bands. The lowest band starts parallel to the keel, and when the bow and stern plates get closer to the waterline than amidship plates, another belt is started, to straighten the curved copper line out, until it too, has bow and stern copper rising faster than the midship plates. I've read that there are usually 3-4 belts of copper, the last belt about 6-7 plates wide, and it's pretty much parallel to the waterline. Lately, I've noticed that some models are being coppered without these belts. When looking at the copper from the side, they seem to create a set of "smiley faces"(I couldn't think how else to describe them), with most of the plates trimmed off at the waterline at a 15-20 deg angle. I've looked thru some of my newer reference books and see they reflect this different(to me) coppering pattern. Is there new information that copper plating patterns changed as the copper plating process developed? I'm curious. Of course, the builder coppers the hull based on what he or she wants to do. But I would like to know if something new has been discovered. I'll try to find some pictures to show the differences (as I see them). Otherwise, opinions and comments are welcome. Thanks, Harvey Jorge Diaz O 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnharv2 Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share #2 Posted March 17, 2013 I hope these 2 pictures illustrate what I'm looking at The way I've seen for a long time The way I've seen recently. Thanks, Harvey Archi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffT Posted March 17, 2013 Share #3 Posted March 17, 2013 I think I saw somewhere that the Constitution had 3 belts at the waterline. Below that its just like the second picture. I ended with one belt at the waterline on my Conny, which I discovered later was wrong. Quote Jeff In progress: Medway Longboat 1742 - Syren Ship Model Company -1/2" scale USS Constitution - Model Shipways - Scale 1:76 HMS Granado - CAF Model - 1:48 HMS Sphinx - Vanguard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ Posted March 17, 2013 Share #4 Posted March 17, 2013 In the late 18th century, British warships had the plates ending at an angle without the top belt of copper. They used a wooden batten to mark the waterline and the plates butted into the wooden batten at an angle. This has been noted on early coppered models like the Bellona. In the 19th century, it became the custom (and perhaps a rule) to add that top strip of copper plates. How a model should be coppered really depends on the time period and perhaps nationality of the ship in question. Russ capnharv2 and Jorge Diaz O 2 Quote T'aint a hobby if you hurry Completed projects Cross section model by Russ 1/48 scale Biloxi schooner model restoration 1/24 scale Biloxi oyster skiff 1/24 scale Biloxi schooner 1/48 scale POB Current project Biloxi lugger Captain Roy 1/48 scale POB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted March 17, 2013 Share #5 Posted March 17, 2013 Goring (belts) of copper with parallel to the waterline strakes came in in the 19th century, Before that, as Russ describes, the copper ended up at an angle at the waterline. capnharv2 and Jorge Diaz O 2 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnharv2 Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share #6 Posted March 17, 2013 Russ and Druxey, Thank you! That was the missing piece of information. So, when the plates were put parallel to the waterline in the 19th century, did the batten go away? Or was it a gradual transition? What references would have some of this information? Thanks again, Harvey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ Posted March 17, 2013 Share #7 Posted March 17, 2013 So far as I know they did not use the wooden batten when they added the plates along the waterline. I know there is a chapter on coppering etc in Brian Lavery's The Arming and Fitting of English Ships of War 1600-1815. I find this book to be very useful on many areas of period ship modeling. Russ WackoWolf 1 Quote T'aint a hobby if you hurry Completed projects Cross section model by Russ 1/48 scale Biloxi schooner model restoration 1/24 scale Biloxi oyster skiff 1/24 scale Biloxi schooner 1/48 scale POB Current project Biloxi lugger Captain Roy 1/48 scale POB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnharv2 Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share #8 Posted March 17, 2013 Thanks Russ. Another book on my shelf that I haven't dug into-until now. Harvey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normanh Posted March 17, 2013 Share #9 Posted March 17, 2013 I added the additional wale/battern at the waterline on my Snake to make the copper terminate to a nicer finish, there has been debate on this for sometime in MSW 1 and I took the view its far easier to copper to the battern than leave a possible uneven edge at the waterline. I started the coppering at the keel offseting the plates by a 1/2 size like in laying bricks. The pattern of the plating is then fixed and the orientation of the plates will change naturally with the lines of the curving hull at the bows and stern. I like the end result and the ease that it gives coppering part of the build and will use this technique again right or wrong. Quote Norman Current build Trumpeter Arizona 1:200 with White Ensign PE and a Nautilus Wooden Deck. Built Caldercraft Convulsion, HM Brig Badger and HMS Snake. Awaiting - Zvelda HMS Dreadnought planning to get the Pontos Deck and PE Upgrades, Panart 1:23 Gun deck model and couple of the cannon kits Manatu - French siege mortar, and American coastal cannon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garward Posted March 21, 2013 Share #10 Posted March 21, 2013 Video: How To Copper Plate a Model Ship Archi 1 Quote Best regards, Garward Is under construction Montanes Ready models Golden Star Corsair San Francisco II Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron (second version) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garward Posted March 21, 2013 Share #11 Posted March 21, 2013 Still video: HMS Snake Coppering Hull ~ Overview ~ Steve Priske Archi 1 Quote Best regards, Garward Is under construction Montanes Ready models Golden Star Corsair San Francisco II Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron (second version) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garward Posted March 21, 2013 Share #12 Posted March 21, 2013 (edited) Still video: Flying Cloud Copper Hull Part 2 Clipper Ship Coppering Hull Steve Priske Ho Edited March 21, 2013 by Garward Archi 1 Quote Best regards, Garward Is under construction Montanes Ready models Golden Star Corsair San Francisco II Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron (second version) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianR Posted March 25, 2013 Share #13 Posted March 25, 2013 very nice work! I like the color, kind of brassy, but nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garward Posted March 26, 2013 Share #14 Posted March 26, 2013 very nice work! I like the color, kind of brassy, but nice. Here one more beautiful model Mikhail Bezverkhny - the French ship Rivoli. Archi 1 Quote Best regards, Garward Is under construction Montanes Ready models Golden Star Corsair San Francisco II Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron (second version) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garward Posted March 26, 2013 Share #15 Posted March 26, 2013 Continuation Archi 1 Quote Best regards, Garward Is under construction Montanes Ready models Golden Star Corsair San Francisco II Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron (second version) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garward Posted March 26, 2013 Share #16 Posted March 26, 2013 Continuation Archi 1 Quote Best regards, Garward Is under construction Montanes Ready models Golden Star Corsair San Francisco II Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron (second version) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garward Posted March 26, 2013 Share #17 Posted March 26, 2013 Continuation Archi 1 Quote Best regards, Garward Is under construction Montanes Ready models Golden Star Corsair San Francisco II Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron (second version) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garward Posted March 26, 2013 Share #18 Posted March 26, 2013 Continuation Archi 1 Quote Best regards, Garward Is under construction Montanes Ready models Golden Star Corsair San Francisco II Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron (second version) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnharv2 Posted March 26, 2013 Author Share #19 Posted March 26, 2013 (edited) Garward, I apologize for not getting back to you sooner. Thank you for the videos and photos! I feel like I made a mess of the copper plating on my Constitution, and want to do a better job on the Agamemnon and Flying Cloud (should I decide to copper the FC). These will be a big help. Thanks again, Harvey Edited March 26, 2013 by capnharv2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garward Posted March 26, 2013 Share #20 Posted March 26, 2013 Hi, Harvey! There is nothing to apologize, I am glad that I managed to you to help! capnharv2 and Archi 2 Quote Best regards, Garward Is under construction Montanes Ready models Golden Star Corsair San Francisco II Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron (second version) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garward Posted March 27, 2013 Share #21 Posted March 27, 2013 Copper plates on the hull of the well-known Victory - model of the known modeller Evgeny Epur from Odessa. Archi 1 Quote Best regards, Garward Is under construction Montanes Ready models Golden Star Corsair San Francisco II Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron (second version) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garward Posted March 27, 2013 Share #22 Posted March 27, 2013 Continuation Archi 1 Quote Best regards, Garward Is under construction Montanes Ready models Golden Star Corsair San Francisco II Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron (second version) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garward Posted March 27, 2013 Share #23 Posted March 27, 2013 Continuation kettuimeszaru, Archi and captainscott 3 Quote Best regards, Garward Is under construction Montanes Ready models Golden Star Corsair San Francisco II Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron (second version) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garward Posted March 27, 2013 Share #24 Posted March 27, 2013 Continuation Archi 1 Quote Best regards, Garward Is under construction Montanes Ready models Golden Star Corsair San Francisco II Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron (second version) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garward Posted March 27, 2013 Share #25 Posted March 27, 2013 Continuation Archi 1 Quote Best regards, Garward Is under construction Montanes Ready models Golden Star Corsair San Francisco II Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron (second version) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garward Posted March 27, 2013 Share #26 Posted March 27, 2013 Continuation Archi 1 Quote Best regards, Garward Is under construction Montanes Ready models Golden Star Corsair San Francisco II Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron (second version) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnharv2 Posted March 27, 2013 Author Share #27 Posted March 27, 2013 Beautiful! Thanks Garward! Harvey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garward Posted March 29, 2013 Share #28 Posted March 29, 2013 Beautiful! Thanks Garward! Harvey Yes, the model impresses! Evgeny Epur also great master in the field of a galvanoplasty, here some photo of its Santa Maria model executed in this equipment. giku22 and Archi 2 Quote Best regards, Garward Is under construction Montanes Ready models Golden Star Corsair San Francisco II Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron (second version) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garward Posted March 29, 2013 Share #29 Posted March 29, 2013 Continuation Archi 1 Quote Best regards, Garward Is under construction Montanes Ready models Golden Star Corsair San Francisco II Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron (second version) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garward Posted March 29, 2013 Share #30 Posted March 29, 2013 Continuation Archi 1 Quote Best regards, Garward Is under construction Montanes Ready models Golden Star Corsair San Francisco II Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron Bronze 24-pdr canone Le Fleuron (second version) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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