Chuck

Syren Ship Model Company news and forthcoming new projects - products

182 posts in this topic

No, that is project number two.....both are currently underway.....the Syren Factory is at full capacity!!!!

 

That is being worked on by Dan Pariser and will take this philosophy to the next level.....

 

You will lapstrake plank the entire hull for a Thames river skiff..1880...all planks are laser cut and pre-spiled....with etched reference lines and instruction.

 

You get the plug...actually laser cut parts....then you plank it like you would with a plug and remove the shell..then insert the frames inside afterwards.   Then there are all the little details.   So that project takes the learning experience even further.   Both are being worked on right now.  Its different than the barge as that kit has removable centers that become the frames...a slightly different concept.  But its all to teach a differnt method of clinker planking with hopefully very thorough instructions and lessons for doing it.  The model shown is Dan's and it is also made from Cherry and boxwood.  They actually make the real things out of cherry and still use these skiffs today.  

 

Dan will be starting a build log of this model as well once it gets further along.

buildboardtest.jpg

midships.jpg

overall.jpg

overall 2.jpg

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Chuck, I really like the look of your latest offering.  this will be a very nice addition to the 19th century longboat.  Add mee to your furture sales list please.

 

cheers

 

Pat

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Chuck you have a way of making people think differently. I know I am going to struggle following your ideas ( I am already exercised by Cheerful! ) but they will be interesting and educational struggles.

 

Good on you!

 

Mike.

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Chuck, thank you for the very detailed explanation, it is totally clear now. Makes sense, and both models and the approach you have is amazing. Best wishes and hope to see them both in the market! And especially thanks for introducing a proper wood out of the box. 

Hope it will hit the market soon and would be a success!

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The large scale is awesome. One can add lots of details to each of them.

As I mentioned before to you, It is time to start getting some cheap labor.

Offer free, cheap beer and cigars and they will come in droves. :-)

Marcus

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Thanks guys...But I need help with a flag suggestion.

 

Both kits are seeing some progress.  I am now trying to determine what flags to include.  I know one will be the Union Jack but I m at a loss to what the other should be.  She is a typical Royal Barge circa 1700.   I would appreciate any feedback on the secons flag for suggestions.

 

Chuck

 

drawingshallop1.jpg

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But which one.....its so darn confusing and I thought there might be some English chaps that know for certain.  Searching the web and researching in some books I have come across so many examples.  I dont want to pick the wrong one or maybe they are all right...who knows.  Lots of flags out there and its bloody confusing which one would be correct.

 

What I am trying to prevent is after buying or making a few hundred of these for a kit,  that an MSW member with the expertise needed tells me I used the wrong one.   I am trying to avoid that and figured I would ask those with the knowledge up front.  The English love their flags,,,they have a flag for almost everything and it changes all the time.

 

There surely must be someone on this forum that has an in depth understanding of all this..."Fun with flags"

 

gb_rs1937.gif

 

400px-Royal_Standard_of_Great_Britain_%2

 

600px-Royal_Standard_of_England_%281406-

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1702 would be Queen Anne's standard. There are images on the Web of the correct heraldic configuration.

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Thank you very much guys....its tough to look at so many variations of these....its like playing...."one of these things is different than the others"  when you were a little kid.  As you can see this is not one of the choices I selected before....LOL.  It will go at the bow with the union jack in the middle.

 

9c0f6386a8.png

 

1000px-Union_flag_1606_%28Kings_Colors%2

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Chuck, the standard in the last post is for the Kingdom of Great Britain, established and adopted by Queen Anne in 1707.

 

Queen Anne first used the Royal Standard you show in the earlier post ( Fleur-de-lis and lions in the first and fourth quadrant).  This was called the Royal Standard of England, first adopted in 1603.

 

Regards,

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Thank you very much.....That is great information.   I guess either one would work but since this will be billed as a Queen Anne Style Royal Barge I will go with that one.   There will be a bust of Queen Anne on the transom.   So its a perfect fit.

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Chuck,

 

I do not know if this will help or not. I have a copy of Timothy Wilson's " Flags at Sea" in which the attached illustration can be seen. I have no idea how this publication compares with other sources but it may be of some use.......or merely muddy the waters further!

 

post-228-0-08132200-1466001887_thumb.jpg

 

Top line left to right;

 

English Royal Standard c 1407 to 1603.

British Royal Standard 1603 to 89 and 1702 to 07.

British Royal Standard 1689 to 1702.

 

Middle line left to right;

 

British Royal Standard 1707 to 14.

British Royal Standard 1714 to 1800.

British Royal Standard 1801 to 16.

 

Bottom line left to right;

 

British Royal Standard 1816 to 37.

British Royal Standard modern.

 

Mike.

 

 

 

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Thank You...its so very confusing and contradicts other dates and standards.   Maddening really.   You think it would be very cut and dry what years these things were used.  So many sources have different dates and different images for these.   I am going with number 4.

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I dont think so Antony....this is the 1700 version.  That one was kind of easy to figure out.  Unless I am not understanding what is wrong with the one posted.  Can you elaborate?  If I understand it correctly as a Yank.....before Ireland became part of the united Kingdom there were fewer bars in the flag and its the same top and bottom.  

 

906px-Flags_of_the_Union_Jack.png

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Anthony: Chuck is correct here, as it is the pre-Irish Union flag which was only adopted in 1801, about century after the date of his model.

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Hi.

Yes after some reading.. Chuck is correct.

Now I was schooled in Cornwall. And the flag without the Irish one is called the King's colours. ...It's my age.

 

Sorry Chuck.

 

Regards Antony.

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Just wanted to give all of you a more detailed look at what the new Queen Anne Style Royal Barge project will look like.  You are looking at the preliminary draft for the plans.  A PDF is below for a more detailed look.  I am not worried about theft because there are no laser cut parts or templates shown on this sheet.  I removed those.   As the project and prototype gets built,  more details will be added to aid the builder.  Including those parts which were removed as theft prevention. This is why it is so important to have someone else build the project before its released.  They will give me feedback on what additional views and parts would be helpful to include on the plan sheets.  And when its completed they should be quite detailed....even though I think what is shown is probably already detailed enough for most folks.

 

As you can see. This sheet includes many views of the model at various stages of its construction so those elements can be more easily seen.  This includes a planking expansion on the bottom of the sheet.

 

With the plans fully developed all that is left to do is build the prototypes....two of them.  Make adjustments...Update and embellish the plans where needed...write the instructions.....and then start on packaging and production.  This will include making all laser cut parts,  cast decorations...and wood decorations.   

 

The model will be nearly 19" long and 3 1/2" wide at 1/2" scale.  It will very closely resemble the contemporary model pictured.

 

Let me know if you have any questions.

 

qannebarge.jpg

 

Chuck

 

queenmarybarge.jpg

queenannebargeplanmsw.pdf

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Thank you guys.

 

Yes an intermediate builder can do this.  Those are the folks this project is directed towards.  As far as making the kit in parts.....I am torn.  It will either be a complete kit....OR

 

A complete kit sold in three installments.  

 

I am trying to work all that out as the prototype gets underway.  I am waiting on planking material as we speak.   Once it arrives it will get into high gear.

 

Chuck

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Oh TUT TUT TUT  chaps   you referred to the UNION JACK   it is of course the Union flag and only a Union Jack when  flown on a Jack staff.

 

Mind after last nights referendum we may end up modifying  it !!

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Nope.   Just the kit.   Either in installments or as one complete unit.  :)

 

The plans will of course be in the first installment along with the frames, keel parts and build-board.

 

Chuck

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Yes....but not as easy as just clicking a button.  Which most would assume.   After resizing the templates in the drafting software  (the easy part)....the laser settings will then have to be adjusted to reflect the proper speed and power settings for the smaller thickness in wood.   Depending on the parts,  they also may need some tweaking to adjust for the larger kerf size in relation to the smaller part size (ie the carved decorations).  Plus the five or six more elaborate carvings are being done as resin castings.  I cant expect folks to scratch carve those so masters will need to be made for those.   So there are plenty of hours of work needed to do it correctly for the best results.  But once its done the first time,   its done and all parts can easily be run as quickly as the 1/2" scale versions.  But its still weeks of work.

 

After all that there are other considerations.  This design concept works well for 1/2" scale.   BUT

 

Lets consider that the frames are 1/16" thick at this scale.  Reducing them to 1/4" scale means using 1/32" thick stock.  Or at a minimum,  going with 3/64" for strength.  I think using 1/32" thick frames for this design construction method would not work as the frames would be much to fragile.  So once you start altering those thicknesses...it means more alterations for the parts templates and it just snowballs from there.  To simply reduce everything by 50% without thinking it through would be a disaster.

 

I know some other folks think its easily done and have talked about it in other threads.  In my opinion its not as simple and a bit fantasy actually.  Depending on the subject of course.  Decisions would need to be made that may reduce its historical accuracy for MFG purposes or depending on the scale,  a entirely different construction concept might be a better way to go.    Lots to consider. ;)  I hate to be the fantasy killer to all those folks discussing the possibilities of kit production in that other topic.   But its a little naive in my opinion.  For most subjects anyway.

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