Eric W Posted January 28, 2016 Share #1 Posted January 28, 2016 I believe this is an Alabama class Revenue Cutter circa 1819. Blue jacket was pretty vague on the origin. I was first concerned about the hull since it seemed to have very little room to shape. As I began working it, though, it is coming along nicely. The kit has well-drawn plans that accompany a nice instruction manual. I have never attempted a wooden ship model and have already emailed Nic at Blue jacket a couple of dumb questions. He has been great about responding and has sent photos for clarity. Canute, Elijah, Jgrace and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric W Posted January 28, 2016 Author Share #2 Posted January 28, 2016 Hull after about 2 hours with 80 grit sandpaper. It comes about 80 percent shaped. CharlieZardoz, riverboat, Bobstrake and 6 others 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juhu Posted January 28, 2016 Share #3 Posted January 28, 2016 I will be watching this thread, I used to be very interested in this type of vessel and some research, If truly Alabama class, it shall then follow the middle of those three Doughty's design (differenciated mainly by size, but otherwise very similar). Would be nice to know more on what plans is the kit based. Looking good though! Bobstrake, mtaylor and Elijah 3 Quote "A smooth sea never made a skilled sailor." Completed: Smuggler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juhu Posted January 28, 2016 Share #4 Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) ... and I guess you know this - very nice representation of Alabama class revenue cutter made by Prof. Tilley - pics available freele on the web, I am happy to have the original one at home purchased from some antique shop years ago, I believe originally prepared and printed upon request from Historical department of USCG?... It may have few things that are not like 100% to be realle there (small carronades aside), but it is still the best overall representation I know EDIT: actually, if we speek of Alabama class, the whole class consists of only two vessels AFAIK, so there is not much room for any generalization, it shall be only Alabama or Louisiana. The principal question really is what shall the kit represent. Edited January 28, 2016 by juhu Elijah, reilly, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Quote "A smooth sea never made a skilled sailor." Completed: Smuggler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlueJacket Posted January 29, 2016 Share #5 Posted January 29, 2016 I believe this is an Alabama class Revenue Cutter circa 1819. Blue jacket was pretty vague on the origin. I was first concerned about the hull since it seemed to have very little room to shape. As I began working it, though, it is coming along nicely. The kit has well-drawn plans that accompany a nice instruction manual. I have never attempted a wooden ship model and have already emailed Nic at Blue jacket a couple of dumb questions. He has been great about responding and has sent photos for clarity. Our Revenue Cutter is based on Howard Chapelle's 31-ton drawings. Bobstrake, CharlieZardoz, Elijah and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juhu Posted January 29, 2016 Share #6 Posted January 29, 2016 Our Revenue Cutter is based on Howard Chapelle's 31-ton drawings. This is very important info. It is very good that as the base Chapelle's work was used. Because up until now the "revenue cutter" was offered by several model kit companies (under various fictitious names like Alert or Ranger), but hese kits are all the same i.e. innacurate design based on old plans originated in Italy. Just a note to the author of this thread: Then however, this is definitely not an Alabama class, as these cutters were based on larger Doughty's plans, not 31ton. I have spent some time trying to find any refrence to the real vessel built from these smallest 31 ton plans, but was not successful - there is of course a mention in one of Chapelle's book, but studying newer resources revealed this is a mistake.... More info upon request.... Anyway, it is good to hear we should have now faithfull Doughty's revenue cutter kit! I am eager to see more photos of the build or plans that comes with the kit. Not much vailable online yet.... Landlubber Mike, Bobstrake, Canute and 3 others 6 Quote "A smooth sea never made a skilled sailor." Completed: Smuggler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieZardoz Posted January 29, 2016 Share #7 Posted January 29, 2016 (edited) I am curious what the size of the hull is if I may ask. Revenue cutter models look like they are based off the Chapelle drawings that are available in History of the American sailing ships though as mentioned seem to have inacuracies. Most from what I can tell are based off the 31 ton drawing, exception being Dallas which is the 80 ton. The Alabama/Louisiana is the 51 ton ship which from what I can tell doesn't have a kit though check the link below they mention Corel's Ranger but I don't agree. Good luck with the build! https://www.coastguardmodeling.com/index.php/models/cutters/revenue-cutters/ Edited January 30, 2016 by CharlieZardoz dgbot, Bobstrake, Elijah and 1 other 4 Quote Build on hold: HM Sultana 1/64th scale Current Build: 31 ton Doughty revenue cutter as USRC Active 1/64th scale (in progress) Future Interests: Ballahoo, Diligence, Halifax and beyond... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juhu Posted January 30, 2016 Share #8 Posted January 30, 2016 As now we know, that the kit presented here depict the smallest of the Doughty's design, some comparison can be made: While it seems all the other producers (European like Mamoli, Corel, AL,....) are offering the same line of kits just roughly scalled, their biggest problem is, they are all using the plans originated somwhere in late 60' I believe, coming from Italy with many errors - most critical are the hull lines, the hull then look a bit flat, not enough curved towards the dec with wrong angles.similarly the keel andle etc. The kits of course do resemble Doughty's 1815 design, but look a bit weird I think. For comparison, see this picture I prepared, at the top Italian plans of typical Alert / Ranger atc. kit, below original Doughty's plan for 31t cutter. Do they look like the same ship? I am by no means technical expert, but I doubt. This are my conclusions and observations, whoever is welcome to correct me! I hope Eric does not mind these my posts, just because this particular ship is of some interest for me, I was brave enough to post something, hoping it may help . I am looking forward to seeing more of the BlueJacket Revenue cutter build and I hope it will be a faithfull representation of this: Bobstrake, mtaylor, Canute and 4 others 7 Quote "A smooth sea never made a skilled sailor." Completed: Smuggler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieZardoz Posted January 30, 2016 Share #9 Posted January 30, 2016 I wonder if this is true of the Jotika version as well. The 1/24 scale looked pretty decent though I'd like to try a 1/64 scale version of the ship probably scaling out to about 14" Canute, Elijah and mtaylor 3 Quote Build on hold: HM Sultana 1/64th scale Current Build: 31 ton Doughty revenue cutter as USRC Active 1/64th scale (in progress) Future Interests: Ballahoo, Diligence, Halifax and beyond... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juhu Posted January 30, 2016 Share #10 Posted January 30, 2016 I wonder if this is true of the Jotika version as well. The 1/24 scale looked pretty decent though I'd like to try a 1/64 scale version of the ship probably scaling out to about 14" Jotika does not produce this kit. They offer Alert in 1/24 made by Krick,German company. Quite old but impressive model due to its size, but 100% true what I wrote about particularly for this one. Sorry. Elijah, CharlieZardoz, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote "A smooth sea never made a skilled sailor." Completed: Smuggler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieZardoz Posted January 30, 2016 Share #11 Posted January 30, 2016 Thats good to know thank you Elijah and Canute 2 Quote Build on hold: HM Sultana 1/64th scale Current Build: 31 ton Doughty revenue cutter as USRC Active 1/64th scale (in progress) Future Interests: Ballahoo, Diligence, Halifax and beyond... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieZardoz Posted February 1, 2016 Share #12 Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) Hey juhu just out of curiosity is the mamoli alert and corel ranger kit in your opinion supposed to represent the same ship type? Just wondering if there was any differences in them at all other than asthetic. Edited February 1, 2016 by CharlieZardoz Elijah 1 Quote Build on hold: HM Sultana 1/64th scale Current Build: 31 ton Doughty revenue cutter as USRC Active 1/64th scale (in progress) Future Interests: Ballahoo, Diligence, Halifax and beyond... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juhu Posted February 1, 2016 Share #13 Posted February 1, 2016 Hey juhu just out of curiosity is the mamoli alert and corel ranger kit in your opinion supposed to represent the same ship type? Just wondering if there was any differences in them at all other than asthetic. Hi Charlie, I have no experience with all of these models, but from what I can see they seem to follow the above described pattern: they do resemble Doughty's design somehow, but do not care too much which one (31, 52, 75 tons?), all have just fictitious names and are probably all based on the same set of inaccurate italian plans (you can clearly see there key similarities, despite the different scale). If you buy them and try to measure and find the match with original, you may be dissappointed . I really hope this latest BlueJacket kit is another league. CharlieZardoz, Elijah and reilly 3 Quote "A smooth sea never made a skilled sailor." Completed: Smuggler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric W Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share #14 Posted February 7, 2016 (edited) Hi Juhu, you are spot on. Funny that Bluejacket did not identify the specific class, but based on the plans, I agree that she must be the Alabama class. Edited February 7, 2016 by Eric W Elijah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric W Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share #15 Posted February 7, 2016 Guy, here is what am talking about. Notice that I already over sanded the bow a bit, trying to fit it to the template. Bobstrake and Elijah 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric W Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share #16 Posted February 7, 2016 (edited) Stern template worked out pretty well. Edited February 7, 2016 by Eric W Elijah and Bobstrake 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juhu Posted February 8, 2016 Share #17 Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) Hi Juhu, you are spot on. Funny that Bluejacket did not identify the specific class, but based on the plans, I agree that she must be the Alabama class. Hi Eric, may be it was lost in the posts here, but if it is (as stated above by MrBlueJacket) 31t schooner, then it CANNOT be Alabama class! Alabama class ships (Louisiana , Alabama) belongs to larger Doughty's 52t plans. Edited February 8, 2016 by juhu Elijah 1 Quote "A smooth sea never made a skilled sailor." Completed: Smuggler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric W Posted February 8, 2016 Author Share #18 Posted February 8, 2016 Well, I am surprised Juhu and Mr. Blue jacket, since I ran across that same plan of the USRC LOUISIANA and it looks just like the kit plans. Thanks for the input folks. Elijah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric W Posted February 8, 2016 Author Share #19 Posted February 8, 2016 So does anyone know of an actual 31 ton Revenue Cutter that was put into service? Elijah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric W Posted February 8, 2016 Author Share #20 Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) Okay, here we go compliments of Irving King's The Coast Guard Under Sail. Just got the book! So far no mention of an actual 31 ton design put in commission. Edited February 8, 2016 by Eric W dgbot and Elijah 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieZardoz Posted February 8, 2016 Share #21 Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) On page 194 of Chapelle's book "History of the American Sailing Navy" he mentions that there was an official tonnage given of Alert as 38 tons. This information was probably the only source of naming regarding the small 31 ton ships and while he says it's by no means reliable it is likely this ship was of the smallest design. If I were in your situation I would probably use Alert as a name though I've seen others use Search, Detector or Active even though those ships were likely not the 31 ton design. Edited February 9, 2016 by CharlieZardoz Canute and Elijah 2 Quote Build on hold: HM Sultana 1/64th scale Current Build: 31 ton Doughty revenue cutter as USRC Active 1/64th scale (in progress) Future Interests: Ballahoo, Diligence, Halifax and beyond... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juhu Posted February 8, 2016 Share #22 Posted February 8, 2016 Hi Eric, you may be confused easily. W. Doughty designed three categories of these ships for the purpose of the revenue service, ~31ton, ~52ton and ~75 tons. They look indeed very similar, but if you check closely, you will find differences in proportions etc. Alabama class were 2 vessels built on midsized Doughty's plans. So either you have a kit representing 31 ton cutter or 52t Alabama class, cannot be both at the same time! If you are searching for the particular vessel built on 31 ton design, you may be disappointed. I spent some time trying to get this but was not successful. So if you find any, please let me know! That does not mean no such vessel was ever built, just there is no evidence. The problem is, we have only preserved all three Doughty's plans, but not the list of vessels built. Some of them are known, some with doubts, but none is referred as the 31 ton cutter, sorry. You may find one reference to "possible" 31t cutter in one of the older Chapelle's book, but this was proved to be incorrect. Probably best sources for you would be the book "U.S. Coast Guard and Revenue Cutters by D.L.Canney, but as said, do not expect to find any 31t vessel built upon Doughty's plan we are talking about. It may well be possible, no such was ever built? One idea, but this is just my thought, nothing more: If you check the all three plans, the smallest one of 31 tons is the only one housing carronade pivot instead of the long gun. Obviously because of the lower weight. But if you think practically, these vessels were no true fighters (although some of them fought quite often I must say) and I would expect long pivot gun with higher range and accuracy would suit its purpose much better. If I were you I would just build the ship as 31t cutter - IF the kit is REALLY based on Doughty's smallest plan, you will have a nice period ship model based on real historic plans, unlike many fictitious ships from other producers. If you will try to connect it with any real vessel, you may easily be only more and more frustrated and that is not the aim I guess . For the start I would check the calculated kit dimmensions compared to plans Canute, Eric W and Elijah 3 Quote "A smooth sea never made a skilled sailor." Completed: Smuggler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juhu Posted February 8, 2016 Share #23 Posted February 8, 2016 On page 194 of Chapelle's book "History of the American Sailing Navy" he mentions that there was an official tonnage given of Alert as 38 tons. This information was probably the only source of naming regarding the small 31 ton ships and while he says it's by no means reliable it is likely this ship was of the smallest design. If I were in your situation I would probably use Alert as a name though I've seen others use Diligience, Despatch or Active even though those ships were most likely of the midsize design. That is exactly what I mentioned in my previous post. Chapelle's books are great but also dated and some info may be inaccurate. Just like this one. I would strongly suggest to check newer researched materials before any statement of the origin is made And I will also be happy if learn something more. Canute, CharlieZardoz and Elijah 3 Quote "A smooth sea never made a skilled sailor." Completed: Smuggler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieZardoz Posted February 8, 2016 Share #24 Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) Yeah and most likely the model "companies" out there used that information to make their kits way back when. Dallas is mentioned as one of the larger vessels in Chapelle's book and the old model kit was based on the 75 ton design however Ive also heard evidence that Dallas was in fact a 52 ton ship as well. I would say it depends on how important it is for you in accurately naming the ship. There are many revenue ship names recorded on roster so if it isn't a big deal to you pick one out of the hat and you have a 33% chance of being right Edited February 8, 2016 by CharlieZardoz Elijah and Canute 2 Quote Build on hold: HM Sultana 1/64th scale Current Build: 31 ton Doughty revenue cutter as USRC Active 1/64th scale (in progress) Future Interests: Ballahoo, Diligence, Halifax and beyond... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juhu Posted February 8, 2016 Share #25 Posted February 8, 2016 Da Yeah and most likely the model kits out there used that information to make their kits way back when. Dallas is mentioned as one of the larger vessels in Chapelle's book and the old model kit was based on the 75 ton design however Ive also heard evidence that Dallas was in fact a 52 ton ship as well. I would say it depends on how important it is for you in accurately naming the ship. There are many revenue ship names recorded on roster so if it isn't a big deal to you pick one out of the hat and you have a 33% chance of being right Dallas together with Surprise should really be 52 t design, built by the same builder at the same time. Canute, Elijah and CharlieZardoz 3 Quote "A smooth sea never made a skilled sailor." Completed: Smuggler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieZardoz Posted February 8, 2016 Share #26 Posted February 8, 2016 That would be logical. Canute and Elijah 2 Quote Build on hold: HM Sultana 1/64th scale Current Build: 31 ton Doughty revenue cutter as USRC Active 1/64th scale (in progress) Future Interests: Ballahoo, Diligence, Halifax and beyond... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieZardoz Posted February 8, 2016 Share #27 Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) https://www.coastguardmodeling.com/index.php/cutters/by-class/revenue-cutters-2/ Here is the list of ship names and types for the revenue cutter service. As you can see a lot of names get reused. Another option would be to use the name South Carolina or Hornet since out of the collection of names given in Chapelle's book those two have no record of what class they were assigned to. Edited February 8, 2016 by CharlieZardoz Canute and Elijah 2 Quote Build on hold: HM Sultana 1/64th scale Current Build: 31 ton Doughty revenue cutter as USRC Active 1/64th scale (in progress) Future Interests: Ballahoo, Diligence, Halifax and beyond... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardG Posted February 9, 2016 Share #28 Posted February 9, 2016 Here's a couple of links that might be of interest: https://www.uscg.mil/history/webcutters/CUTTERLIST.asp - List of named vessels of the Revenue Marine, Revenue Cutter Service, Coast Guard and Lighthouse Service. https://www.uscg.mil/history/articles/USRCS1789-1849.pdf - Early History of the US Revenue Marine Service 1789-1849 I'll be following your build Richard dgbot, Canute, Elijah and 2 others 5 Quote Richard Current Build: Early 19th Century US Revenue Cutter (Artesania Latina "Dallas" - messed about) Completed Build: Yakatabune - Japanese - Woody Joe mini Member: Nautical Research Guild & Midwest Model Shipwrights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieZardoz Posted February 9, 2016 Share #29 Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) Considering that list posted (nice one Richard) then I'd say go with Active, since it's the only cutter mentioned from the 1810-1820 period with a tonnage in the 30's. If you want to name her after a state then maybe South Carolina since there is no record of her tonnage. Edited February 9, 2016 by CharlieZardoz Canute, Elijah and juhu 3 Quote Build on hold: HM Sultana 1/64th scale Current Build: 31 ton Doughty revenue cutter as USRC Active 1/64th scale (in progress) Future Interests: Ballahoo, Diligence, Halifax and beyond... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric W Posted February 10, 2016 Author Share #30 Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) So I went with a compromise on the deck fitting. To have the deck not overlap the hull would have put the mast holes way off. I am going to shave the deck slightly at the bow to make this work. I think the biggest issues are symmetry and the holes for the stanchions. I was concerned about this when I first got the kit. I set the deck template on the hull when it was right out of the box and had some overlap at the bow. I think re-drilling the mast holes will be more problematic vs a little bit of bow shaping. The angle of the masts are very important for this replica. Guy, let me know if you have a similar issue. Edited February 10, 2016 by Eric W Elijah, Canute and dgbot 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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