tkay11

Triton cross-section by tkay11 (aka Tony) - FINISHED

141 posts in this topic

So practise I did, and I still have a way to go before the notches are perfect, but the nice thing is that the lower deck gives practice for the gun deck which will be more visible!

 

Getting the beams on

 

I thought it best to make the entire aft beam, beam arm, carling and ledge assembly before gluing the beams to the hull as I thought it would be too difficult to place the arms, carlings and ledges afterwards.

 

That pesky little aft-most carling which will have no support at its aft end was epoxied in and trued up with a square beforehand as well.

 

Once I had done that, I glued the beams to the hull with rapid-setting epoxy and held them down with the simple clamping arrangement shown in the photo.

 

post-229-0-71137900-1478434422_thumb.jpg

 

Lodging knees

 

I then had a look at the lodging and hanging knees. It was immediately apparent that making the hanging knees fit perfectly was going to be a challenge well beyond my capability. So I had a read of Antscherl’s book on the Fully Framed Model, and he suggested that it was quite as likely for the lodging knees to cover the entire distance between the beams – unlike the current plans where the knees do not do so.

 

If I were to make the lodging knees cover the full distance, this would make the construction of the hanging knees more easy as I’d only have to cut the pattern in relation to the planking below the beams. So that’s exactly what I did.

 

Notch placement for the ledges

 

In order to have the notches for the ledges between carlings line up across the width of the section, I placed the carlings in their notches and only then drew the lines across them from knee to knee using the position of the notches on the knees as reference points (and using a pair of dividers as markers). I then took down the carlings and cut the notches for the ledges before gluing them in place.

 

post-229-0-77630700-1478434452_thumb.jpg

 

After all this, placing the ledges was fairly straightforward.

 

post-229-0-31434200-1478434476_thumb.jpg

 

post-229-0-38537500-1478434494_thumb.jpg

 

Of course there are lots of errors and slight misalignments, but as I said above, it makes for good practice for the gun deck.

 

The next challenge, though, is to work out how to make and cut accurately the hanging knees for the lower deck.

 

Onwards and upwards (to the gun deck eventually, that is)!

 

Tony

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Thanks again, Carl and Dirk.

 

As to the epoxy, Carl, it may be just my imagination, but I have the belief that it provides a stronger bond and I use it where I think there may be greater stresses than normal on a joint -- particularly when handling the whole model while sanding or whatever.

 

I have found that while I concentrate on one particular action I quite often find I'm bending another piece out of its place, or, as I found with the frames, breaking them apart at the glue joins. I found that when I used epoxy those frame joints did not come apart again -- it was only those glued with PVA that did so.

 

Of course I am quite ready to be corrected about the relative merits of PVA and epoxy so please do fire away!

 

Tony

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Hi Tony. Many good ideas for your build in this log and good progress. As for the irregularities on your frames, I would suggest you cut out straight sections with a flat bottom in the problem areas and just glue in a large pieces of matching wood and then trim them with a knife to the correct shapes. It will not be a noticeable fix and you will not have to disassemble anything to get the job done.

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Yes, good idea Mike. Thanks for the tip. Interestingly I applied the same concept to a beam I cut 0.3mm too short. I glued on an old shaving and then sanded down gently for the correct fit. I'll be doing more of that in the future! On reflection I could have done that with the hanging knees, and I reckon I'll do that for the aftmost hanging knee adjoining the beam arm.

 

And Brian: Thanks for the compliment!

 

Tony

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Thanks, Mike. I do them for other beginners like myself who are probably just as puzzled as I am at several stages of the build and who find pictures easier to think from than words (as I do). But I'd like to return the compliment as I very much appreciate the detail you put into your own logs.

 

Tony

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Tony,

 

I think glue is a very personal preference, so I just let you use your epoxy. It was merely interest. I do understand the reason, and subsequently the need to apply it

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Nice work on the lower deck, Tony.  The extra step and research on the knees was beneficial and shows in the appearance.

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Thanks, Mark. I've just been figuring out how to cut out the knees accurately. Guess what! Yes, the trusty old jeweller's saw comes to the rescue. And I was just about to reach for the scroll saw!

 

Tony

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The hanging knees

 

I spent some time thinking how to make the hanging knees. The most helpful thing was to cut the shapes using traced outlines of the knees from the plans, and see how they matched the dimensions on the model.

 

This showed me that I had to make the knees slightly thicker (siding dimension) and add a bit of height.

 

I then measured the thicknesses of the wall at the beam clamps and the lower plank strakes, which showed me by how much I had to adjust the steps. I transferred these measurements to the CAD outlines.

 

At first I had thought I’d use a scroll saw to cut out the hanging knees. On reflection I thought this would not allow the very fine cutting needed for shaping the steps of the knees against the planks.

 

I also experimented with cutting the steps out with a chisel, but this was a total failure.

 

In the end I realised that the best way to do it was in fact the simplest and easiest – using a jeweller’s saw!

 

This turned out to be fairly quick and accurate, with just a little bit of trimming to do with a barrette file.

 

The only slightly tricky knees to do were the ones against the beam arms, since they have to be angled with respect to the hull wall, and shaped against the curve of the arms. However, even that didn’t take up too much time.

 

I’ve shown these aspects in the pictures below.

 

post-229-0-04867600-1478561216_thumb.jpg

 

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post-229-0-65267400-1478561314_thumb.jpg

 

Now I can think about the extent to which I will plank the deck.

 

Tony

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Thanks for the likes, everyone!

 

I forgot to mention in the log that my really most favourite tool is the TurboCAD programme. It makes adjustments to the plans extremely easy -- especially when I have to make adjustments as a result of my own errors!

 

Tony

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That's a very nice compliment, Christian. Thanks. From my point of view it was very much more pleasurable than doing it with a scroll saw. The lack of noise was a very important part of that! Interestingly, it doesn't take that much longer either. The scroll saw is a keeper, though, for the times when a lot has to be done.

 

I think that it's not so much any particular skill that I have, but the little jig that I used that I saw on a YouTube video about how to use a jeweller's saw. That long thin line down the middle really does help keep the saw vertical. I don't have the link any more, but I'm sure a search would find it.

 

Thanks also to those who've been sending me their 'likes'!

 

Tony

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Fixing my mistakes

 

I’m really glad I didn’t start all over again after finding I had over sanded the frames 5. It gave me an opportunity to learn how to fix them. I just layered them with 0.5mm veneer that I had left over from my Sherbourne build and sanded to the widths of frames 4. A lovely little exercise, albeit not perfectly done!

 

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post-229-0-48404800-1479686496_thumb.jpg

 

post-229-0-46543200-1479686517_thumb.jpg

 

Waterways

 

Back to the next steps, or rather planks. I puzzled a bit as to how to cut the waterways, but eventually decided to use my saw as it can be angled. The following diagram shows how I set about making the cuts (actually there was a slight variation in the final angles, but the diagram shows the principles I used):

 

post-229-0-17907600-1479686538_thumb.jpg

 

post-229-0-47552300-1479686581_thumb.jpg

 

Lower deck planking

 

I’m leaving just under half of the lower deck un-planked as is common practice. The planks that are partially over the other half are to allow for the stairs and possible pillars (I was undecided at the time of planking as to whether to add pillars to the side of the stairs, but after a recent discussion on the forum I reckon I’ll leave them out as there was no clear decision as to whether they should be there or not, or whether they were movable).

 

One thing mentioned by David Antscherl but not shown on the plans is the larger central plank that supports the gun deck pillars. So I decided to add that.

 

I scribed lines along halfway marks of the beams to place the butt ends of the planks.

 

post-229-0-03061300-1479686604_thumb.jpg

 

post-229-0-08645400-1479686630_thumb.jpg

 

Preparing the gun deck beams

 

As before I used the sliding device to measure the width for the beams at each beam station and bent them across a drill bit. This time the central bit was 3.5mm and I added a 2mm bit on either side to provide a more accurate curvature. (The lower deck beams tended to be straight on either side of the central curve after I had used only one drill bit).

 

Again I used the old hair dryer at full blast for two sessions of 10 minutes and then left the clamped beams overnight in the airing cupboard.

 

post-229-0-26792500-1479686658_thumb.jpg

 

I then bevelled the edges at 10 degrees to fit the angle of the sides, and cut a scrap piece of plywood to the exact height needed in order to test fit the beams.

 

post-229-0-24500800-1479686685_thumb.jpg

 

Next up is the preparation of the hanging knees and the lodging knees for the gun deck.

 

Tony

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NIce save on the frame, Tony.  Your problem solving is great and will pay off on future builds.   Interesting method for the waterways.  i fought with that one and I'm still not sure I won.

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Thanks, Mark (and Carl and G.L. for the like). I really am conscious that making mistakes now and learning how to deal with them is laying up a nice hoard of experience for future builds.

 

The trouble for the method for the waterway is that it will only work for a near straight run, as on the cross-section. For long curved runs round the full length of a ship I suppose I'd have to go the scraper way, and I have yet to learn how to do that.

 

I might well practise the scraper method for the gun deck waterway.

 

Tony

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GUN DECK WATERWAYS

 

Having thought about the gun deck waterways I realised I just had to learn how to make and use a scraper as the shape was too complex for the simple use of a saw as I had done previously for the lower deck

 

So I made my scraper and found that it was not that hard to use – especially if I kept the old hacksaw blade edges really sharp by frequent rubbing on the diamond stone.

 

post-229-0-08707300-1480861740_thumb.jpg

 

post-229-0-10789200-1480861759_thumb.jpg

 

PILLARS FOR GUN DECK BEAMS

 

These were shaped on the lathe as before. I am only using three pillars, and decided to leave off pillars on either side of the steps.

 

post-229-0-56448900-1480861777_thumb.jpg

 

BITT PINS

 

I first attempted to make these from single blocks of wood, but found that cutting the sheaves using a jeweller’s saw was too inaccurate. In addition, the mill bits I have are too short to go the full length.

 

post-229-0-78225200-1480861795_thumb.jpg

 

So I went the route of making them from three strips, with the central slice cut very simply with the desktop Proxxon saw.

 

The sheave holes were then cut in the outer strips again using the bench saw.

 

The sheaves themselves were cut in brass rod using one of my home-made gravers. I used dividers to establish the width of the sheave, then a jeweller’s saw to define the outer extent. After then cutting the groove in the sheave it was a simple matter to cut the sheave off the bar using the jeweller’s saw.

 

post-229-0-20000200-1480861813_thumb.jpg

 

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post-229-0-58329500-1480861993_thumb.jpg

 

Next up: putting together the beams, carlings, ledges etc for the gun deck.

 

Tony

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Very nice work, Tony.  The waterways look perfect as do the pillers and bitts. 

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Thanks for the comments and likes! I'm beginning to get a hang of the rhythms and the requirements for accuracy of cutting and thinking in the various dimensions. It certainly is a very engrossing and rewarding to be building just from plans, and to keep developing new skills as we go along.

 

Another facet that is interesting is the increased focus on good use of basic hand tools -- saw, scalpel, chisel, scraper, file, compass, ruler, dividers, pencil, sanding stick -- and I really appreciate learning about them.

 

Tony

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Thanks, Guy. I don't think I'll need to adjust for camber at the base as the gratings will fit into the coamings. On the upper surface I'll likely be sanding against a curve. I have the inside of an old cake tin that seems to have the camber needed, but if not I'll probably cut and sand a surface down and lay some sandpaper on it. It's a long way before I reach that though, so I've time to think about it.

 

What would you suggest?

 

By the way, how are you getting on with the full build?

 

Tony

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A NOTE ON MEASUREMENTS

 

I thought I ought to mention a couple of possible difficulties for the unwary (i.e. myself!).

 

The first was that I cut sections out of the lower deck for the bitt pins using the plans for the lower deck layout pattern. This shows the bitt pin area at that level as being square, whereas of course by then the pins are not square, but have been shaped into a rectangle. I decided to keep the square holes and keep the bitt pins square, but that is not how they should be!

 

post-229-0-38853500-1481805313_thumb.jpg

 

The next thing to point out is that the shape of the hanging knees for the gun deck shown in the ‘midship cross section’ drawing that you can find with the full plans are different from the drawing of two hanging knees for the gun deck you find in the cross-section plans. I started by using the ones from the midship cross section, but found that the more accurate ones were those shown in the cross-section drawings.

 

post-229-0-06085900-1481805551_thumb.jpg

 

PUTTING UP THE BEAMS

 

Because I had chosen to bend the beams with heat rather than cut the beams to the correct curvature it became necessary to keep the beam at the correct height with the chock I had used earlier. This allowed me to ensure the beams were cut to the correct length before placing the pillar for each beam.

 

post-229-0-11731200-1481805353_thumb.jpg

 

As I like to be reminded of the scale of the model, I took a contemporary drawing of a sailor and sized him to be 5’4” or 1.62 metres high and placed him on the gun deck.

 

The following shows the current state of the model with the waterways in place and the bitt pins placed but not yet glued as I’m still deliberating as to whether or not to paint them.

 

You'll notice that I changed my mind about not adding pillars on either side of the stairs for the forward beam. I had to put them in for the simple reason that the beam did not retain its full curvature after heat bending. Next time I'll follow David Antscherl's advice and cut the beams to the correct curvature!

 

post-229-0-61060900-1481805378_thumb.jpg

 

Next up will be the coamings for the forward hatch and perhaps the ladder and the grating coamings for the after hatch.

 

Tony

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