19th Century Revenue Cutter by CharlieZardoz - Scale 1/64 - 31 ton as USRC Active based off Doughty plans and Bluejacket kit

[jbshan]

Charlie, I think you would be safe in using the elevating screw in your time frame (1818-1825).  I wouldn't rely on what sort may or may not have been used in a kit.  Who knows where they may have gotten their information, and a European prototype may not fit an American/British vessel.  The Americans were casting their own by 1812, so were not reliant on captures to arm their ships.

 

I don't know if this is pirated, but try this:

 

https://sites.google.com/site/shipwrightsfaq/smf-researchnotes/smf-RN-Carronade

[CharlieZardoz]

Great article very informative. Not many images of carriage evolution but the British and American carronades look essentially identical at least enough so that the small caldercraft carronade can work. I've already made a laser pattern for the carriage based of the alert plans and will add a screw design based of the plans of corel Ranger.

Edited January 13, 2017 by CharlieZardoz

[Cathead]

Charlie, I just PM'ed you a couple photos of the Corel plans showing the carronade in detail. Hope they're helpful, although I wouldn't trust Corel very far on the accuracy front.

[CharlieZardoz]

The photo is sufficient for me to understand how the pin/screw is supposed to connect to the carriage. Thank you so much this will give me what I need to complete the carronade

Edited January 17, 2017 by CharlieZardoz

[CharlieZardoz]

Ok so thought Id show a bit of what ive been up to. Basically all these parts will be laser made. What I did in many instances was took the plans from Chapelle's book, the bluejacket kit and the Italian plan downloadable off the Internet and mixed and matched what parts work best. For example look at the 3 rudders the Alert is on the right so I chose that one then modified it to fit my keel. The cabin is a mix of all 3 the sides need to be rhombis shaped not a rectangle like in the italian plan (the follow the inclone of the deck). The carriage is from the Italian plan and the stern is from bluejacket but modified by the doughty plans. Once the laser renderings are finished, I will separate them to their various wood thicknesses. Also taking the scan of the deck to make the edging so it fits precisly.

Edited January 15, 2017 by CharlieZardoz

[CharlieZardoz]

Small update today. I made some test gratings based on the scale gratings I got from Syren. So question here is what looks best. The first set up is what is measured exactly from Chapelle plans. Using this grating the one is front is 4 by 5 holes the bigger one is 7 by 8 holes. This could work but the rear grating seems a tad small.

Edited January 18, 2017 by CharlieZardoz

[CharlieZardoz]

Second is a more modified version the one is front is 5 by 5 holes and the one in back 8 by 8 holes. This one is similar in dimensions to various kits mamoli/krick/AL etc and honestly looks the best in my opinion. The other option would be to vary them up, last pic shows the one in front 4 by 5 and the 8 by 8 in the back. I'm open to opinions which do you all think looks best?  Otherwise I'll probably pick option 3 with the mixed approach since to my eyes it just right. Also what about the size of the grating holes do they look to scale?

Edited January 18, 2017 by CharlieZardoz

[DocBlake]

I prefer the 8X8 and 5X5, Charlie. The holes look good.

[CharlieZardoz]

Thanks Doc! Maybe you're right many of the models ive seen use that set up and having a square hatch simply makes more practical sense. Ill double check some examples but I appreciate your imput.

[Mahuna]

The holes in the gratings should be approximately 3 inches actual size.  At 1:64 scale this is .05 inches.

Edited January 18, 2017 by Mahuna

[CharlieZardoz]

The syren gratings make holes that are about 1.1mm which is around 3" according to Chuck.

[CharlieZardoz]

Well here is a new pattern, the front still square is only 4 by 4 now. This puts the galley stack closer to the center and looks a bit more in perspective to the larger grating in the back.

Edited January 18, 2017 by CharlieZardoz

[shipmodel]

Hi Charlie -

 

There are good descriptions and drawings of some carronades in both of the volumes of the NRG's Ship Modelers' Shop Notes, which I thought you had.  There were a number of styles and shapes depending on the nation of origin and the year of manufacture, so you just have to pick the one that you think fits best with your ship.  The article by Mark Lardas is a good start.  He is a well known and respected ship modeler and author.

 

That said, the pivot mount for your guns is not very much like the slide mounts for broadside carronades.  You can see the one I did for USS Oneida (1812) when you come to the meeting tonight.  It was taken from Chapelle's description in History of the American Sailing Navy.  I cannot locate the exact page at the moment.

 

Then there are scale drawings in three perspective views in any Anatomy of the Ship book which examines a ship that carried carronades.  All drawings are labeled with numbered parts, so you can see that your 'hook' is actually a 'breaching ring' and your 'lump' is part of the sighting and aligning system.

 

Really looking forward to seeing how your laser cut parts come out.

 

Dan

 

  

[jbshan]

The holes in gratings should be maximum 3" square.  This is so the crew's heels won't get caught as they traverse the gratings.  Prototypically, the spacing might vary a bit to make the slats come out even, but keeping that maximum in mind at all times.

[CharlieZardoz]

Hi everyone! So I decided I wanted something simple finished on the model and have been practicing on making the frames for the hatches (coamings). While I want to do the final frames in cherry so they are darker than the boxwood grating I have a large supply of boxwood so thought I'd play around and get the hang of using a hobby knife to carve wood. While lots of fun it took me a few tries to get a decent result. Below you can see my approach including a simple lock joint on the edges.

Edited January 27, 2017 by CharlieZardoz

[CharlieZardoz]

My first attempt was trash using 1/8" by 1/16" basswood too soft and ultimately the coamings looked too thick, second attempt I used boxwood 3/64" by 5/32" for both. What I found is that having them the same height didn't quite look right (look below). So next I chose to make the forward coaming 3/64" by 1/8" which looked much better.

Edited January 27, 2017 by CharlieZardoz

[CharlieZardoz]

And here they are, just looks better in my opinion though if this is historically inaccurate do let me know. I've seen some models with different heights to their hatches and the Chapelle plan shows this as well so I am assuming it's perfectly acceptable. They are not 100% square yet but that wasn't my intention since when the time comes ill wrap the wood around the hatch grating so it is the correct shape. I wanted too see how they would look overall I think the thickness and heights look great!

 

What I am still unhappy with is the level of precision between the lock joints. I feel it's my tools I am curious what some of you use for cutting very tiny and precise right angles, perhaps they aren't sharp enough or perhaps there is something better to use. Thoughts and feedback are appreciated

Edited January 27, 2017 by CharlieZardoz

[RichardG]

I used a razor saw for mine with a sanding stick to finish. I also did them in pairs and slightly longer than needed so I could sand them flush after assembly. 

 

Richard

[jbshan]

See if you can find a flat, non-tapered file with one of the sides smooth, no teeth.  That lets you concentrate on only one side of the cut without worrying about cutting too deep on the side you aren't working on.  Right angles?  You need to develop an eye for it, or some sort of jig or holder that lets you keep your file or sander square.

[CharlieZardoz]

Here is pretty much the stuff I have which most closely matches your suggestions. I am going to try a third attempt and this time really get in close and see how it comes out. But I am enjoying the practice and the learning curve

[Cathead]

They seem a bit tall to me, but I'm no expert. Nicely made, certainly.

[jbshan]

#8 from the right, if it has one edge with no teeth is exactly what I use.  You can get right into a corner without making the adjacent side too deep, then you have to come back and square that up, then the other side is too deep, and back and forth until you can drive a truck through what is supposed to be 2 X 2 ft.

Coamings in this period could be as much as 9 inches above deck, maybe a bit more.  When you measure, don't forget to take account of the deck which you haven't laid yet.

Edited January 27, 2017 by jbshan

[CharlieZardoz]

They sort of do but that could be due to the fact that they are still empty, also a camera trick. Looking at the plans which are traced right out of Doughty you can see the hatches are 5/32" and 1/8" in height respectively. I looked at many different ship models and they seem to be all over the map as far as dimensions go. However I will try a pair at 1/32" shorter just to see if I like that better. I'll just keep trying different things until I'm happy with what I see

[CharlieZardoz]

Joel I have a few of those one or two sided files and it is a process for sure but a fun one. But I appreciate hearing what others use it gives me confidence that I am on the right track

[dvm27]

The coamings look nice, Charlie. But consider that the grating illustrations may not quite match the final construction for any number of reasons. Forcing them to fit your already built coamings may require some shaving of the gratings that will result in half holes. I find it best to construct the gratings first, with symmetrical borders on all sides, then build the hatch coamings and head ledges around them. The final assembly may vary from the prototype by an inch or two but will look better. I believe Dan has published a nice article on this site (or in the NRG book) regarding this technique.

[CharlieZardoz]

I agree Greg and for the next attempt I am going to put the gratings together first and then build the coaming around it. In this I will use the kit from Syren ship models

Edited January 27, 2017 by CharlieZardoz

[CharlieZardoz]

Greetings everyone! Another week another update and wanted to include you all on some of what I've been up to. Basically did another test grating and coaming this time using a spare grating kit I purchased from model expo a ways back before I knew of Syren's version. I didn't feel comfortable yet using the final version so I practiced on putting the basswood kit together learning a few things what not to do. I used the tools below to help apply glue and then scrape off anything that bled out into the grate holes checking at each layer before I put the next one down. I also determined that it is best (for me anyway) to cut the size I want out first and then glue those grating strips together as I noticed a few different methods. The model expo grating holes are about .1 mm larger than syren's so if the holes look a little large they will change in the final version.  

[CharlieZardoz]

The curved knife I find is best for cutting the plank strip (you can apply a gentle rocking motion) and for shaving off any pieces of the lock joint that stick out after gluing. This time I built the coaming around the grating making it snug. I used a tiny needle file to help keep the lock joints square and even. Third time around and I am happy with the result.

[CharlieZardoz]

At the same time I went about purchasing some carronades. One of the main issues I've been having is that I can't seem to find any carronade out there between 17-19mm. What you see in these images from right to left is the AL Dallas carronade, then the bluejacket revenue cutter carronade (both supposed to be 1/48 scale?) then a carronade from amati 20mm then caldercraft 18 pounder at 1/64 scale 23mm and last caldercraft 12 pounder at 1/64 13mm (in the little bag). I am not sure why the 12 and 18 pound kit is so different in size especially when the Caldercraft 24 pounder is only 25mm and the 32 pounder 28mm but no matter. I shaved off a mm from the front of the amati carronade and now it's 19mm. It has a strange ring over by the breech bolt but it'll do. Any thoughts on this carronade? I could also use the Caldercraft 18 pounder though it's a tad bigger.

Edited January 31, 2017 by CharlieZardoz

[CharlieZardoz]

And here are the final test gratings.  The larger one is a bit loose since that was an older version but these will be discarded for cherry coamings shortly now that I've gotten the hang of building them. I wanted to get a feel for the dimensions and there are things I can see in a photograph that doesn't come out at me during construction. I believe cathead is correct that they are too high so I will shorten them both by 1/32nd of an inch (I honestly couldn't really tell when looking at it in person). The hatch holes are a bit big but that will be corrected when using the Syren kit. What I am pondering is the thickness of the coaming it is currently 3/64" (or 1.2mm) the next step down would be 1mm but I feel that's making the coaming too thin. I've seen models with thick coamings and super thin ones so if anyone has a second opinion do let me know. For now I am waiting on some wood strips and will start the final hatch shortly. Stay tuned!

Edited January 31, 2017 by CharlieZardoz