Jump to content

Power Tools for a Fully Framed Build


Recommended Posts

Hey Group

As I'm winding down Confederacy I'm gearing up for my next build. I already own all of Jim Byrnes tools and a spindle sander.

 

On the list is a mill - would love suggestions as to accessories (I understand Sherline may be the way to go), a lathe, and possibly a drill press (but won't mills have that capability?). I'm building in 1/48 or 1/36 scale - thanks !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll assume you also have a scroll saw?

 

Mills.... a vice, assorted mills (ball and plunge and standard set), a rotary table with a 4 jaw chuck (not necessary but really a nice to have tool),  There's lots of jigs you can make.   There's a  topic here that's a lot of help:  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/11214-how-to-make-best-use-of-your-milling-machine-tips-and-techniques/ There's also this place which has a lot of information:  http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Products/product_new.php  Have alook at the Info Center and the Learning Center tabs.

 

Lathes.... This has a lot of solid info: http://www.mini-lathe.com/Default.htm  A lot of the accessories will depend on what you'll use them for.. 4-jaw and 3  jaw chucks, live centers, etc.

 

As for using a mill as a drill press... that works.  Some mills are eaiser to use as drill press (a drill press type handle in addition to the crank).  My drill press really never has been used since I got the mill. 

 

I hope this helps.  Chances are, you'll spend as much on tooling as you did on the base unit.  But careful research can reduce the costs, such as "beginner tool sets", Amazon, etc.  There's also a lot of junk out there... mostly from China.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also if you have a mill you can learn to start making your own stuff instead of buying it same with the lathe make your own tools as you need them. Takes time but you can do it. Like Mark said you will spend more than what the base unit cost, I know I have most of the stuff from Sherline, I am not saying that's a bad thing but a good amount I could have made myself LOL, but I like my toys LOL

Edited by WackoWolf

Wacko

Joe :D

 

Go MSW :) :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I cannot comment on Micromark power tools because I have never used any. I am a fan of Sherline for a number of reasons

 

A huge number of well thought out accessories.

 

Very high quality, mine was made in the USA.

 

I think in inches. Millimeters require conversion, and Sherline's tools not only can be purchased calibrated in inches, but collets screw threads, etc. are in inches too.

 

Great customer service- Sherline uses socket headed set screws with a machined point to secure its heavier components. When setting up the milling column these are removed and reinstalled. A while ago I broke the socket on one of these, and could not find a replacement locally. I called Sherline and the lady on the phone said " Yes, those are hard to find, give me your address and I'll send you some." A few days later an envelope with several screws showed up gratis!

 

Roger Pellett

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the feedback guys - does any one have an opinion on this mill ?  Its 20 percent off at Micromark right now for approx 660.00 

 

http://www.micromark.com/microlux-high-precision-heavy-duty-r8-miniature-milling-machine,9616.html

Excellent mill.  There lathe is also very good.

 

Chinese lathes and mills can be pretty bad but if you get one from a reputable dealer like Micromark or Little Machine Shop you will be getting a good machine.  In addition the Chinese machines will be far more capable than the sherline, taig or proxxon products.

My advice and comments are always worth what you paid for them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chris,

 

I went with the Little Machine Shop version for my second mill.  The MM mills have the tilting post which isn't as secure as it could be.  Check the prices including shipping as depending on freight charges it can make a significant difference.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I forgot.. LittleMachineShop has this one:   http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=4962&category=1387807683

 

It's the same as the MM but with the non-tilting column.  

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Guys,

 

I don't know if this is off topic but since we're talking about milling I thought I'd give it a shot. I have a Delta bench top drill press and was wondering if I invested in a proxxon x-y table and a few milling bits, would it be possible/useful for milling small jobs in wood? A Sherline is out of the question right now and I'm basically kit-bashing for my next step with some minor scratch building. We're not talking about TFFM here. What do you think? Thanks.

 

Best,

John

 

PS - if the moderator wants to move this to a new topic, fine with me. J.

Member:

Connecticut Marine Model Society

Nautical Research Guild

Model Ship World

"So we beat on, boats against the current, bourne back ceaselessly into the past" F. Scott Fitzgerald - The Great Gatsby

"If at first you don’t succeed.......skydiving is probably not for you”

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It depends how your chuck is mounted. On many drill presses including the one that that I have, rhe Jacobs chuck is mounted on a morse tapered shaft. There is a threaded nut above the chuck that can be used to push the chuck off. This setup is not designed to accept side loads and loads from routing or milling can cause the chuck to wobble and in some cases to fall off- personal experience!

 

If your drill press works this way you will have to see if a collet chuck is available. This locks onto the shaft using the threads on a the shaft. A collet chuck will probably come with two inserts to fit 1/4in and 3/8in router bits and milling cutters.

 

Roger Pellett

Link to comment
Share on other sites

John,

 

Light and infrequent milling will work (except as pointed out by Roger).  However, the bearings will not handle the side loading very well for very long.  We've had builders use a drill press as a lathe and as a mill but there is the risk of killing a bearing.  By all means, check the bearings as you're using it for heat build up also.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi guys,

 

I guess it come down to using the right tool for the right job.

 

Thank,

John

Member:

Connecticut Marine Model Society

Nautical Research Guild

Model Ship World

"So we beat on, boats against the current, bourne back ceaselessly into the past" F. Scott Fitzgerald - The Great Gatsby

"If at first you don’t succeed.......skydiving is probably not for you”

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thank it all depends on how much one has to spend on there "hobby".

 

When I was working to make my living, I bought the best tools. But this is a hobby, not something most of us make our living at. This is new to me at the present but I have bought two power tools that some would call "crap". But as an amateur I find that they do an acceptable job for the occasional use. I have seen some beautiful work on MSW by people that didn't have the best tools that money could buy.

 

Which reminds me of a thread on MSW. A member was inquiring about a low cost rope walk. And the response was "its crap" and recommended another (high dollar) rope walk. And Chuck responded that he makes all of his rope with a modified rope walk that the member was inquiring about. I think most of us know the quality of the work Chuck puts out.

 

Like it is said "the difference between men and boys is the price of there toys". :)

 

But if you still have money for groceries, utilities and health care, go for it.

 

Russ (wannabe amateur ship modeler)

"Peace is not something you wish for; It's something you make, Something you do, Something you are, And something you give away" by Robert Fulghum

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the input - actually the difference in price between the Microlux and Sherline is not that significant for me.  I'm new to Mills and have never used one.  I do notice that many people use them on fully framed builds - and I plan on being active in this hobby for awhile (Im 46).  What would really be helpful is to understand which accessories I will need to get started.  The first parts I will be building will be the keel and the frames.

 

I will also buy some high quality chisels and a sharpening system which can do the work of a mill by hand. It does seem to me that a mill will offer me more precision.  

 

Thanks

Chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again this is a recurrent discussion ... the epical dock-yard models were made without power-tools available, they were simply not invented then. (Almost) everything can be made with hand-tools, given the necessary dexterity and patience. Power-tools (not the hand-held ones) have the advantage of controlled movements - you work in a Carthesian space and need to worry only about movements along one axis at a time - much easier for many of us. Often power-tools also save elbow-grease, of course.

 

OK, this was rather philosophical. On a more practical level, you need to know what kind of materials you anticipate to work with. Wood, metal, and plastics all have quite different machining properties and require (often) specific tools. Wood requires much higher cutting-tool speeds than metals. This can be a serious limitation, when thinking of using a metal-lathes for working on wood. Most mills run only at around 5000 rpm, which is too slow for the small cutter you are like to use. The only mill I know of that has rpms adequate for wood is the smallest PROXXON. There you run into capacity problems, because the slide travels are rather limited. It would be ok for making small parts, but could pose a problem, when you want notch keels or something like this on largeish models. There will be alsway a trade-off.

wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

M-et-M-72.jpg  Banner-AKHS-72.jpg  Banner-AAMM-72.jpg  ImagoOrbis-72.jpg
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is also a question of space, Proxxon is the smallest and can easily sit on the table, while larger mills typically require much more space.

Hard to beat a mill in precision and speed of milling joints, if you would like to show them in your model It is one of the most frequently used tools I have, probably after the disk sander :)

A vice is a must for the mill (for joint cutting as well).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

More capapable in what respect ? Size ? But then you talk about capacity, rather than capability.

Size but also power.  A Sieg 2x mill, which is what both the MM and LMS machines start as, can handle cuts in hard materials that a small machine like the Sherline or Proxxon simply cannot do.  If all you are ever going to do is take light cuts on soft brass, aluminum and wood one of the smaller machines will work fine.  If you want to work in steel, cast iron or even some of the really hard woods like ebony you want a machine that can do the job faster and easier.

 

For making small parts for a model I guess it really isn't important but when it comes to making jigs and special tools you will want the size and power of the larger machine.

 

Same applies to the lathes.

My advice and comments are always worth what you paid for them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I suggested above, perhaps the administrators start a sort of permanent file, where one can compare the different capabilities and capacities. I agree, for making jigs and attachments for your machines, a bigger machine would be handy. But you will find that is always a 'catch 22' - you always better have a bigger machine for making attachments for your smaller machine. But, how did they do in the old days, when there were no bigger and more precise machines ? Sometimes it just need ingenuity and patience and you can turn out good stuff with smaller machines. As said earlier, if you can't have a range of machines, you have to make a trade-off between your needs.

 

In principle, a big machine is more stable, has less vibrations and, therefore, the potential for higher precision. This, however, requires that it is well-made and well-adjusted. The problem is that adjustment costs time and, hence, money. This is were the Chinese makers cut corners in order to be able to sell their products at competitive prices. Compare a modern-day Chinese mill or lathe with a precision machine of the 1940s or 1950s (the pre CN- and CNC-age) coming from Switzerland. On the latter the slides move like silk in spite of the large masses involved, because the ways have been scraped-in and not just milled. In order to get equivalent handling for working on small parts, you have to opt for a smaller machine - unless you are a master in machine adjustment.

 

BTW, I am working steel on my watchmaking lathes and mills. It is a pain at times and takes a long time because I can only take light cuts, but with perseverance I manage to most things I want to do. The same machine, on the other hand, is ways better than a big Chinese machine will be, on small parts. With careful adjustment, the Sherline or Proxxon machines are almost as good.

wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

M-et-M-72.jpg  Banner-AKHS-72.jpg  Banner-AAMM-72.jpg  ImagoOrbis-72.jpg
Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://gingerybookstore.com/MetalWorkingShopFromScrap.html

 

I have the set plus, purchased from Lindsay Books some time ago. Can find some of Lindsay's old books here: http://www.youroldtimebookstore.com/

I bought the series as a set of 7 books, Gingery's Son, is now publishing them and others.

There is a lot of info about a whole wide brush of subjects now available from the reprinting of old books plus a lot of how to's from those who have done it. Don't need to make any of the things described, I enjoy just reading them.

jud

Edited by jud
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To answer your question, I have a Sherline, I bought one of their packages that comes with pretty much everything you need to get started(wood or metal). Since then I have bought their indexing set, tilting stand, rotating table, sensitive drilling attachment, right angle adjustment and a four jaw chuck(wish I would have bought the self centering one). I buy my micro bits on Amazon, which are very cheap for packages of ten and use my dremel sanding drums in the chuck.

 I will not get into the argument as to which is better than the other, I will say I use mine almost exclusively for wood. A mill, like most power tools , is not a MUST have item, however, I would certainly miss not having one.

I am also very embarrassed to say some of these extras(and I won't say which) I have yet to use ;) but I had to have them :P  :D  

 

 Hope this helps

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chris,

 

I have the Sherline lathe and mill.  They get pricey, especially with all the add-ons.  I went ahead and bought them used on eBay, so I was able to spend just a fraction of the price for something new.  They are build like tanks, kinda like the Byrnes tools.

 

Not sure if you need a scroll saw, but you can get those fairly cheaply on Craigslist.  Lots of one-shot use items where the saw was used for a kid's science project and then never used again.  I got my Dewalt 588 that way and saved quite a bit of money.

Mike

 

Current Wooden builds:  Amati/Victory Pegasus  MS Charles W. Morgan  Euromodel La Renommèe  

 

Plastic builds:    SB2U-1 Vindicator 1/48  Five Star Yaeyama 1/700  Pit Road Asashio and Akashi 1/700 diorama  Walrus 1/48 and Albatross 1/700  Special Hobby Buffalo 1/32  Eduard Sikorsky JRS-1 1/72  IJN Notoro 1/700  Akitsu Maru 1/700

 

Completed builds :  Caldercraft Brig Badger   Amati Hannah - Ship in Bottle  Pit Road Hatsuzakura 1/700   Hasegawa Shimakaze 1:350

F4B-4 and P-6E 1/72  Accurate Miniatures F3F-1/F3F-2 1/48  Tamiya F4F-4 Wildcat built as FM-1 1/48  Special Hobby Buffalo 1/48

Citroen 2CV 1/24 - Airfix and Tamiya  Entex Morgan 3-wheeler 1/16

 

Terminated build:  HMS Lyme (based on Corel Unicorn)  

 

On the shelf:  Euromodel Friedrich Wilhelm zu Pferde; Caldercraft Victory; too many plastic ship, plane and car kits

 

Future potential scratch builds:  HMS Lyme (from NMM plans); Le Gros Ventre (from Ancre monographs), Dutch ship from Ab Hoving book, HMS Sussex from McCardle book, Philadelphia gunboat (Smithsonian plans)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...