pirozzi

Royal William Kit by Vince P. - Euromodel - 1:70

I have been building this kit for almost 3 years now, and I believe I have come to know a great deal about it. I am writing this topic to pass on what I have learned, so others can use this information if they choose to do so, when deciding whether to undertake this project. I had no such information, and made the decision based on books and other source information I could gather. 

 

Make no mistake, I am delighted with my choice, but there are many things to be concerned with if attempting to complete this kit.

 

Having completed several advanced level kits from other manufactures, the Euromodel philosophy is different from the others. They provide excellent plans to take the build far beyond the basic supplied kit and it is up to the builder to decide how far to take it. The kit itself is probably the most expensive kit in its class out there. I paid over $1300 dollars US about 4 years ago. If the builder desires to just build the basic kit, with little to no enhancements, the finished product would be a fine model, but would not look much like the plans because much of the intricate detail would be left out. The materials provided in the basic kit are of high quality and would not really need much substitution to improve quality.

 

If however you wished to replace some materials such as lumber or fittings with better stuff, you could be putting out hundreds of dollars more. That is strictly a matter of choice, but not absolutely necessary. I did not replace hardly any materials because I thought I needed better quality, but did replace or modify some of the smaller fittings for better detail. 

 

I chose to include as much detail enhancements as my skills would allow because I wanted my build to be as close to the plans as possible, and even went beyond in some areas. To this point I have probably invested $400-500 dollars more for materials. This does not include a considerable amount of extra materials taken from my stash, which have accumulated over 35 years of modelling. I don't even count buying new and better tools either.

 

In my opinion, the skills level needed to build the basic kit would be at the very high end of advanced. If you want to add the enhancements like I did, a good supply of scratch building skills is a requirement. While I have not completed a true scratch build yet, a considerable amount of this build so far has been from scratch. I believe my skills have been greately increased because of this. Certainly all of the enhancements, and even some of the basic kit construction requires making parts from scratch, as indicated in the plans themselves. You are pretty much working strictly off the plans, as there are little to no instructions included. I have relied on books from other builders of this ship and the excellent reference notes provided on the Euro website, which are free, to help me along. 

 

So in summary let me say that if you are considering taking on this project, be prepared to invest countless hours of intense effort, and a very large amount of cash. You should have a few completed models of the advanced category under your belt and not be afraid to venture into the unknown. 

 

This is without a doubt the most fun thing I have ever done, but I have also had some scary moments trying to get things right. Lots of do overs also. So far, so very good. 

 

Good luck to you if you decide to do this. You are going to need it. :) The end result should be far better than you imagined. While I am about half finished, most of the hardest parts have been accomplished.

 

I do have a build log going and up to date. Just go to the Ship Kits section of the forum and query Royal William.

 

Vince P.  :dancetl6:

 

 

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I think that a kit at this price should include better fittings. For a start, they could include a photoetch sheet with the following components:

- gunport hinges. The standard ones supplied are dreadful. Too chunky, out of scale, and poorly molded. I would even go so far as to say they look like a bad joke.
- filigree decorations for the stern. The standard fitting looks more like a coin than filigree.
- rigols. The kit does not provide you with any, despite indicating a large number of rigols on the plans.

Furthermore, laser parts which are supposed to fit together don't fit. Example are the laser cut bulkheads, which slot into the false keel. There is about 0.5mm play between these parts, so they need to be shimmed. This does not inspire confidence.

Whilst I am enjoying my kit, we had to band together with a few others to get rshousha to make a custom run of RW gunport hinges for us, at additional cost.

The RW kit is one of the most expensive on the market. It SHOULD include photoetch fittings, or at least the option to purchase them.

 

I have a feeling that Euromodel have not updated any of their kits or introduced any new models for a very long time. They are not like Caldercraft or Victory, which are busy developing new models with great new innovations. I would hope that Euromodel believe in reinvesting in their business. The RW is a unique kit, because it is the only kit which features this particular subject. But just imagine what would happen if Amati or Panart decided to release a Royal George ...

Ponto, Canute, mtaylor and 2 others like this

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Euromodel has produced a range of kits for ships that existed during the 17C - 18C and each model portrays a significant amount of history. For example, the Royal William, for its age, is exceptional in showing a continuous waist rail along the complete length of the ship from cathead to stern, albeit at different levels but joined by ornamental hances.... but I dare not deviate. For a ship initially launched in 1650, there are many special features to appreciate.

 

It concerns me that again there is a level of criticism being directed at a family business and it looks like a case of 'here we go again' !!!! BUT, yes, there are things that could always be improved upon. Different people will see negatives in various ways.

 

Who am I ? Just a guy who enjoys the challenge of building Euromodel ships BUT having no commercial or financial link with the company concerned. I have nothing to gain by answering the current criticisms. It just annoys me that there is so much to gain from building their kits which are just so different to the standard kits that replicate what is shown. There are just so many positives to gain from building the Royal William and I believe these outweigh the negatives.

 

The comments made today in a sense portray what the Euromodel philosophy is all about. You CAN build a fine ship model from the kit supplied but the plans supplied are of such intricate detail that the builder is drawn into the purchasing of extra material. That in turn reflects upon the skill of the builder. So if you wish to move on from the normal style of kit- build replication, then this style of kit offers that challenge without moving on to the pure scratch build. Keep in mind that all that extra expense is not necessary but having said that, it does allow for a far better build.

 

On this web site there is an incredible example of a rapid but detailed and very thorough build shown in Mark Tieden's post. Simply type in 'Euromodel Royal William'. Mark has taken this build to a very high level.

 

I do not agree with the number of comments about a lack of instructions -  there are detailed, very detailed, instructions on how the Royal William could be built. Mark's post certainly shows that and for the last few years (maybe 4-5 years), I have been posting continuous updates on the Euromodel website. So the instructions are there to be used, even if I have only got up to the completion of the masts. The most enjoyable part of my current work with the Royal William is the strong interactive cooperation I have with Mark as we bounce ideas off each other.

 

Regarding other comments  ...

1. the poor fitting of the laser cut bulkheads. It is possible to have poor fittings but I suspect this has more to do with humidity of the air at that time. Personally, this has never been an issue for me but if a bit of shimming is necessary, so be it. In my posting on the Euromodel web site for interpretive files (RW.01), I wrote ...

 

"The fifteen transverse pre-cut ‘bulkheads’ were slotted into the false keel as a dry run to determine the fitting of joints. A significant number of the cross-joints were a loose fit and some packing was needed."

 

In this area, I went to great pains to add in extra timber between the bulkheads to absolutely ensure their correct alignment with each other and to give greater strength to the overall hull. So if there was a bit of movement in those bulkhead slots, it actually helped ! 

 

2.the poor filigree piece on the stern. Mark made an excellent job of improving upon this little piece so it can be improved upon without any additional expense. Lack of rigols - again, Mark has made these without any apparent extra expense ... and do not lose sight of the fact that these are but one of the extra things that could be added. I see many other kits without these being shown at all.

 

3. the poor hinge quality. This is a significanr point here but the interesting thing here is that most port lids are fixed in an open position and very few hinges are to be really observed. I plan to produce my own hinges. The only downside to the alternative photo-etched hinges is their very thin nature so they can only be cosmetic (make sure that alternative arrangements are made like pinning the lids to the hull or the stability of the lids will be flimsy).

 

Now I am more than happy to work with any person building, or contemplating building, this ship. This is what I enjoy doing. So let's work together, talk to me (and others like Mark, Vince and Keith), build this ship and get mutual satisfaction from the experience. It is possible to work around the perceived problems that exist.

 

Now excuse me while I go and look at that garboard !

 

Pete

Canute, kumamax, Denis Pink and 4 others like this

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I am also building this kit,so I will add my two cents. As far as the laser cut parts go,mine fit perfectly - nice & snug. Is it difficult - yes,but it has been an absolute joy to build. My only real disappointment has been those gun port hinges - I would still have used them,but they are just way too short. They are all 9mm long,while many of the lids are 13 or 14mm long. Comparing it to other large kits I have built is like comparing a fine oil painting to a paint-by-number painting - with a little extra work you can make it as nice as you want to. I would not hesitate to recommend it to an experienced modeler with some scratch building experience. The best part is all the help & information from Pete - he is a joy to work with.

 

Mark

kumamax, WackoWolf, mtaylor and 3 others like this

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Agree with all the points raised. Its a beautiful kit and the plans are the best in the business but from my opinion building this kit, the cast metal stern window galley just looks heavy and wrong with a painted simulation of glass.

 

It should be brought into the 21st century with photo etch window frames. Other than that, any modeller with experience can add scratch detailing to bring the kit to the next level. 

Canute and mtaylor like this

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Hi Vince, I would like to thank you and the other members for the time and effort that has been put into creating these superb build logs for the benefit of others. Although I wasn't buildig the Royal William I followed them with great interest as much of what you were doing was relevant to other builds especially the effort towards detail and quality building. Your efforts are not wasted as it's logs like these that makes me and and I'm sure other mere mortals want to build better. I have been inspired to have a go at the Royal William, so to that end I have now got the kit. Having read what has been written and examined the contents I agree with all that you have said, but not having super detailed photo etch for me gives it an old fashion charm and perhaps more character just like a classic car,  I may regret saying that when I get into the build as I realise that I am going to be way out of my comfort zone with this.

 

I will take about three months to finish my current project but when I start I will create a build log of my own,  my first. I am a bit nervous of the response though as I'm afraid my present standard falls well short of the current builds out there but I'll give it a go and perhaps I can blame you if it all goes pear shaped.

Ken

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Hi Vince, I would like to thank you and the other members for the time and effort that has been put into creating these superb build logs for the benefit of others. Although I wasn't buildig the Royal William I followed them with great interest as much of what you were doing was relevant to other builds especially the effort towards detail and quality building. Your efforts are not wasted as it's logs like these that makes me and and I'm sure other mere mortals want to build better. I have been inspired to have a go at the Royal William, so to that end I have now got the kit. Having read what has been written and examined the contents I agree with all that you have said, but not having super detailed photo etch for me gives it an old fashion charm and perhaps more character just like a classic car,  I may regret saying that when I get into the build as I realise that I am going to be way out of my comfort zone with this.

 

I will take about three months to finish my current project but when I start I will create a build log of my own,  my first. I am a bit nervous of the response though as I'm afraid my present standard falls well short of the current builds out there but I'll give it a go and perhaps blame you when it goes pear shaped.

 

Ken

 

Hi Vince, I would like to thank you and the other members for the time and effort that has been put into creating these superb build logs for the benefit of others. Although I wasn't buildig the Royal William I followed them with great interest as much of what you were doing was relevant to other builds especially the effort towards detail and quality building. Your efforts are not wasted as it's logs like these that makes me and and I'm sure other mere mortals want to build better. I have been inspired to have a go at the Royal William, so to that end I have now got the kit. Having read what has been written and examined the contents I agree with all that you have said, but not having super detailed photo etch for me gives it an old fashion charm and perhaps more character just like a classic car,  I may regret saying that when I get into the build as I realise that I am going to be way out of my comfort zone with this.

 

I will take about three months to finish my current project but when I start I will create a build log of my own,  my first. I am a bit nervous of the response though as I'm afraid my present standard falls well short of the current builds out there but I'll give it a go and perhaps blame you when it goes pear shaped.

 

Ken

Thanks Ken. You are so right about posting build logs. I only do it to help others. In the beginning it does take some courage to do so because you are putting your efforts out there for all to see, and expect criticism of your work. In all the years I have been posting on this sight, I have had only one individual make a post that was critical. Although he was correct, it was not comfortable to see it in my log. If I see something that needs correction in a build log to really help the builder along, I will use a private message so that only the builder and myself can see it. I have only done it once, since the poor fellow was heading for big trouble in his build. He was grateful for my help. If you have to be critical, make sure it is constructive. This site is known for this and that is why it is rewarding to post a build log.

 

Vince P.  :dancetl6:

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