rdsaplala

HMS Triton (1/64) by Aldo - POB

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Hi all

my mistake too, so many thanks to Christian also from my side for the clarification.

I'm new to this type of researches, still trying to understand what is available in the NMM collections and how to get them.

 

My intention is to get enough information to take a decision, if the Triton POB version could be my next built (in this case joining you guys in the community built). I have enough skill for a scratch built like this, starting from plans already available, but not enough skill for draughting my own set of plans based on the "museum" (contemporary) plans.

 

Ciao

Fam

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Go for the Triton, Fam, she's a beautiful ship and there is a complete set of "as built" line drawings including all decorations for her as well as deck plans. In addition to this, there is also a disposition of frames plan for the Modified Mermaid Class, to which Triton belongs. These can all help supplement the provided MSW plans.

 

My mistake was to use "as proposed" line drawings for the Modified Mermaid Class to revise my bulkheads.  While test planking shows that my new bulkheads will produce a considerably fairer hull without any awkward bulge, I still have to live with the fact that "as proposed/as designed" plans only rank second to "as built" plans in terms of accuracy :(

 

All is not lost however as a fine gentleman named Christian will be re-drafting a high resolution "as built" draught of Triton to correct any distortion. Once completed, this redrafted plan will serve as an excellent basis for me to re-make all my bulkheads and centerboard (Thanks again in advance for the help Christian :D)

 

Of course these things take time so while waiting, I have the option of proceeding with my current hull as practice or building a POB model of this famous 24-gun frigate from plans made by John McKay ;)

post-256-0-65520100-1369455506_thumb.jpg

 

The redrafted plans have no distortion so making the bulkheads is pretty straightforward:

post-256-0-25733200-1369455523_thumb.jpg

post-256-0-60619800-1369455532_thumb.jpg

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Hi Aldo,

 

You went to the dark side and for me ,everything you showing me this far is dark side…...

I try to follow everything but give me almost a …..

But never mind, I love those discussions and will follow you further.

 

animaatjes-sjors-94584.gif

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Thanks for dropping by Sjors, don't mind the technical discussions my friend, they are just my vague way of saying I made a bit oooops in modifying my ship :P

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Hi guys,

 

Just a wee bit of update, I haven't done much wood work lately as I've been stuck on the computer learning new stuff that will hopefully help me in modifying my bulkheads. Druxey has been so very kind to share some techniques on interpreting admiralty plans as well as identifying and correcting distortions so I'm knee deep in reading right now (thank you so much, Druxey :) )

 

I also thought I'd try out going a bit more high-tech in doing my modifications so I've been learning the ropes on this CAD program called Inkscape. It's quite a learning curve but I think I'm getting the hang of it :D My NMM draught has arrived, but unfortunately is too big to fit any scanners in our area for uploading unto CAD, thank goodness Christian has a smaller copy, which he has shared with me, thanks Christian :)

 

I have uploaded the three contemporary plans (as built plans, as designed/proposed plans and inboard profile plans for the Modified Mermaid Class) unto Inkscape and surprisingly, they all match pretty well.

 

As an example, here are the juxtaposed body plans of the as built and as designed plans showing just how close the lines are to each other:

post-256-0-48130400-1371045908_thumb.jpg

 

Their profiles also match pretty closely with the main difference being in the bowsprit, foremast and quartergalleries positions:

 

post-256-0-18415900-1371046064_thumb.jpg

 

I have also uploaded the MSW plan as I plan to tweak it to match the three plans then use it to cut my new centerboard (yup, I will be redoing all my centerboard and bulkheads and using there references:

 

 

post-256-0-07898700-1371043617_thumb.jpg

 

That's it for now, will post more detailed pics once I get the hang of this CAD stuff.

Sjors, harvey1847, mtaylor and 1 other like this

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Wow Aldo,

 

You've really been bitten bad haven't you? I'm sure your attention to detail here will pay off in the long run. Looking forward to seeing more updates - with sawdust!

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Aldo,

 

Fantastic.  You have made the leap to the darkside and are shining....  Great work.

flyer likes this

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Thanks for the kind words, Grant and Mark :)

I jumped into this "darkside" stuff so I might as well go the whole hog and start with the original plans , lately however, I can't help having that strange feeling that I may be biting off more than I could chew  :wacko:

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Aldo,

 

I feel that way too and I'm not even drawing plans. Hang in there my friend, there's enough folks to help you out of any holes you may dig.

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Aldo,

 

With the help of all your modelling friends, you can chew almost everything….

I'm a great example for that !

I have make my first scratch thing and it works  :D

Thanks to the support of others!

I have faith in you ,that you can do it also.

 

animaatjes-sjors-94584.gif

mtaylor likes this

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Thanks for the kind words, Mark and Sjors, this is what I love about MSW, lots of supportive friends to keep the spirits up when the times get tough :)

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Aldo,

 

it's nice to see your progress. I am allways waiting for my new colored copy of the NMM. I hope to get it in a week or two.

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Thanks Christian, I fully understand your situation on prolonged shipping times.... in here, shipments from the UK generally take more than a month to arrive. If not for my regular following up with our postal office, my plan probably wouldn't be here yet.

 

Anyway, I am pleased that your plan is already in the post, I am looking forward to your work on these plans :)

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Time for some update, I'm still fiddling around with the computer doing my CAD-work, progress is slow as I am a "dinosaur" with almost zero knowledge on computer stuff :P

 

Anyway, I've been applying the principles I learned regarding Admiralty draughts and identifying and correcting distortions.

One important fact is that Admiralty draughts almost always have distortion due to the relative instability as well as the age of these materials. It's just a matter of determining how much distortion these may have. Distortion has many forms but the ones I find easiest to catch are horizontal and vertical distortions. 

 

The severity of horizontal distortions may be determined by measuring  "10 foot sections" in fore-, midship, and aft-portions of the draught's scale ( the ruler-like drawing beneath the profile drawing).

 

In the case of the 1/48 Triton draught, here are the measurements:

 

Fore-portion=63.5mm

 

post-256-0-38618200-1374055564_thumb.jpg

 

Midship portion=63.7mm

 

post-256-0-51266800-1374055594_thumb.jpg

 

Aft portion=63.5mm

 

post-256-0-66971100-1374055631_thumb.jpg

 

I proceeded further to measure the rest of the "10-foot" sections along the length of the scale and I've found that the length variation ranged from 0.1 to 0.2mm.

This basically gives a very small horizontal distortion of only about 0.16 to 0.32% in the draught.

 

The amount of vertical distortion may be determined by checking the depth in hold of the ship, again, the NMM Triton Draught seems to have very minimal vertical distortion.

 

So, with very minimal distortions, it appears that I may yet get away with a direct trace of the lines instead of having to do some tedious redrafting ^_^

 

 

I did notice a slight issue, and that is the the top-timber heights of each specific section in the profile does not match the top-timber height of its corresponding section in the body plan :mellow:

 

Taking the foremost station V as an example, it can be seen that top timber height of V in the body plan (red line) is greater than its height in the profile (see below)

 

 

Top-timber height of Section V in body plan

post-256-0-21887500-1371994699_thumb.jpg

 

Top-timber height of V on the profile:

 

post-256-0-21216800-1371994724_thumb.jpg

This however is a minor issue, as based on my correspondence with Druxey on the Swan Class draught, I have learned that there is an easy fix to this difference in the top-timber heights between the profile and body plans (thanks for the help on that matter, Druxey :D )

 

This is solved in two ways, one method is to use the top-timber heights on the body plan to create a new top timber height on the profile, and the second approach is to nudge the sections in the body plan so that their top-timber heights follow that on the profile.

 

I decided to use the second approach of following the top-timber heights in the profile since I will be using this profile for taking off all my vertical measurements B)

 

I also had another pleasant finding when I placed the 1/48 NMM Draught alongside the MSW 1/48 profile and deck plans:

 

post-256-0-22491800-1374057889_thumb.jpg

 

As seen in the above picture, the overall length (red lines) and mast positions (blue lines) of the MSW inboard profile very closely match those of the NMM draught.

 

Furthermore, a side by side comparison of the NMM Draught with the MSW deck plan in the picture below shows that their mast positions also perfecty match. The same is true for the positions of the deck fittings.

 

post-256-0-07545100-1374059913_thumb.jpg

 

Conclusion, it would appear that even if I make a new centerboard and bulkheads from the NMM draughts, I could still use majority of the MSW plans do determine the dimensions and placement of my fittings thereby saving me a lot of work :D

 

Lastly, I have already made some patterns for my deck camber and started work on drawing my bulkheads, so far, I've already completed 2 so I only about a dozen more to go :wacko:

 

post-256-0-56763200-1374060969_thumb.jpg

 

 

harvey1847 likes this

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Nice work Aldo. Good to see an update from you. Looks like you've put a lot of work into getting this "right" - although that is always a relative term! So when does sawdust start to make an appearance? ;)

rdsaplala likes this

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I don't understand a thing about it but nice drawings…….. :D

 

animaatjes-sjors-94584.gif

Thanks, Sjors, don't worry my friend, I frankly also don't understand 90% of what I am talking about :P

Sjors likes this

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Nice work Aldo. Good to see an update from you. Looks like you've put a lot of work into getting this "right" - although that is always a relative term! So when does sawdust start to make an appearance? ;)

Thanks for the good word, Grant, just a dozen more bulkheads to go, and the workshop will see some action once more :)  

 

My previous plan was to purchase a copy of Steel and perhaps the applicable establishments/ specifications to get the scantlings for redrawing all the fittings... lately however, I started to feel that drawing is just not as fun as building, so I decided that I will just remake the centerboard and bulkheads from the NMM Draughts, but use the rest of the provided plans for everything else... I guess I'm too lazy to go the whole hog after all ;)

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Aldo,

 

Excellent work.  And it sounds like an excellent plan you have for building using a mixture of your draughts and MSW draughts.   Just curious, were you able to sort out the problem with the stern being off?  The 'bump' as I recall?

rdsaplala likes this

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Aldo,

 

Excellent work.  And it sounds like an excellent plan you have for building using a mixture of your draughts and MSW draughts.   Just curious, were you able to sort out the problem with the stern being off?  The 'bump' as I recall?

 

Thanks for the good word, Mark :)

 

With regards to the "bump", it appears that the aft bulkheads I made using the "as proposed draught" have addressed this, based on the relatively fair run of these temporary battens:

 

post-256-0-05184600-1374152437_thumb.jpg

 

post-256-0-20183700-1374152425_thumb.jpg

 

Since the body plan of the "as built draught" I'm currently using are basically spot on with the "as proposed draught" that I previously used, the new bulkheads I'm drawing will hopefully also create a fair hull, but I'll know for sure once I build up the new hull... I'm keeping my fingers crossed ;)

Blue Ensign and mtaylor like this

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Looks like you got the problem solved, Aldo.  I'll keep my fingers crossed with you.  However, that will make shipbuilding rather difficult. :)

rdsaplala likes this

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Thanks, Grant, I hope it also works out well for the new hull that I'm currently drawing, if it doesn't, at least I still have this one to go back to  :)

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Very well done Aldo, looks like your cad work has paid off, I agree its a little difficult and time consuming redoing the entire plans, I'm currently drafting and lofting a set of plans for the US brig Eagle and I have spent many hours so far but I'm enjoying learning how to do this for future scratch building.

 

Ben

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Hi Ben

 

Thanks for dropping by, as well as the kind words, I appreciate it :)

 

With your excellent work on Echo and Confederacy, I'm sure you'll do a wonderful job on your next scratchbuild project ;)

I'm pleased to know you're drafting some plans for the US Brig Eagle, I once saw some line drawings of a certain US Brig Eagle, circa 1814, and I was amazed at her slick lines.

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you had mentioned this earlier.....but I guess it never clicked.   I've finally had the chance to check this out........man!......I am so amazed at what your doing.   I don't understand CAD at all......never tried it.    you've come a long way........looks great!   I've been wanting to get into something like this....perhaps with your help,  I can understand more of it............maybe take the plunge down the road.   count me in to be following your exploits!  ;)

rdsaplala likes this

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Beautiful picture Aldo!

 

It really catch the effort you´ve done so far. I like the battens you have put on too. Now start the fun job for you!!

 

Best wishes.

 

 

Daniel.

rdsaplala likes this

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you had mentioned this earlier.....but I guess it never clicked.   I've finally had the chance to check this out........man!......I am so amazed at what your doing.   I don't understand CAD at all......never tried it.    you've come a long way........looks great!   I've been wanting to get into something like this....perhaps with your help,  I can understand more of it............maybe take the plunge down the road.   count me in to be following your exploits!  ;)

 

Thanks for visiting as well as the kind words, Popeye :)

Come on and take the plunge my friend, with your excellent scratchbuilding skills and ingenuity, I have no doubt that you can master CAD in no time at all ;)

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